New adventures in MAME

[AnonTet]

I've rediscovered Depthcharge (Atari 1977) and Angler Dangler (Data East deco cassette system) on another type of adventure in MAME.
Note: Data East had some great stuff, and I'm including pinball tables too. Funny I dismissed cassette stuff when I grew up with ZX Spectrum. Its not like we need to wait for the games to load in comparison!

And going back to IREM they also did moon patrol that I played quite a lot but never finished...

On the software side of things, I decided to filter only the arcade games out of mame.xml because, why not?

I think I got a "simple" one liner using sed (under WSL with Bash as shell) working well (should be pretty close at least to show just arcade games) and a shorter version of it that I'm still wroking on becausee it can't filer driver status="imperfect" (games marked as not working) as it is and I don't want those, arcade or not.

But hey, it's nice challenge to occupy the mind but man, am I rusty in regexp's :D

On the hardware side I've found a wheel design online that fits my Spintrak and now I can play Bad Lands like this which is a lot less stressful on my hand and wrist as I can use just one finger.

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

I've rediscovered Depthcharge (Atari 1977) and Angler Dangler (Data East deco cassette system) on another type of adventure in MAME.

Depth Charge, Sea Wolf and similar games are such classics! Very simple premise, but beautifully executed = a fun game always worth a play. Angler Dangler is something I haven't played much of frankly, but I like the fact that it takes careful work to reel the fish in without letting them get away vs the oppressive time limit. Good stuff.

Somewhat similar games you might know and/or like would be Rip Cord, Lunar Rescue, & Taikei Takara Sagashi. Very simple and surprisingly fun!

Oh btw, if you happen to *really* like Depth Charge, there's a very special treat waiting for you below. It is called "Uber-Boat," and if there's a greater, more flawless sequel to a simple, classic game, I've yet to encounter it:

Ike's Flash game preservation project (downloads included)

If you want to jump to the games, you can skip to the next part. If you're interested in how Flash is being preserved, check out this list of resources. Below is an explanation of what's going on: Finally tried out BlueMaxima's Flashpoint project, and I must say it's pretty impressive...

pinballnirvana.com

On the software side of things, I decided to filter only the arcade games out of mame.xml because, why not?

I think I got a "simple" one liner using sed (under WSL with Bash as shell) working well (should be pretty close at least to show just arcade games) and a shorter version of it that I'm still wroking on becausee it can't filer driver status="imperfect" (games marked as not working) as it is and I don't want those, arcade or not.

But hey, it's nice challenge to occupy the mind but man, am I rusty in regexp's :D

On the hardware side I've found a wheel design online that fits my Spintrak and now I can play Bad Lands like this which is a lot less stressful on my hand and wrist as I can use just one finger.

Dang Tiago, sorry to hear about your hand. So presently you can only use one finger on your dominant hand?

Anyway, I'm still not sure I understand your MAME software project very well. I mean I love to edit the registry very, very carefully, but I've never edited Mame.XML at all. What is the specific project, again..?

 

[StevOz]

Any Metal Slug love out there, just came across this NSFW review...

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

Metal Slug... miss you, my Norwegian buddy!
Hoof yah, we gravitated from Tron lightcycles to Kaillera MAME, back around... 2004?

Oof-lala, those were the days, matey.
Those were the days... when Armagetron ruled our lives! (remember?)

Oh yeah, and the loss of syncs just added to the general hilarity, amirite or amirite? XD

 

[AnonTet]

@StevOz
Two words for you: Demon Front

@Isaac Sauvage
I can use my hand, after all, I have to work. But I limit my mouse usage; i'm using the laptop touchpad instead which sucks; and no pinball because we tend to get hyped and hit the buttons harder and tehn I complain because of my wrist which is the REAL problem so yeah, all work no play makes jack a dullboy, so spinner games and now things like bad lands I can play because I can adjust the sensitivity so I need little movements. I'm even worse at the games playing like that but better than nothing. I take this as another challenge and all is well...

I'm not editing mame.xml per se. I'm using it to make a list of arcade only games because MAME now means Multi Arcade Machine Emulation :)
"Problem" is and I totally understand and support accurate preservation mind you, MAME devs are proud (and they should) of this line of thinking so they don't make it easy to know what is actual arcade only, and they won't in any foreseeable future.

Mame File Manager is a software you can use to do this and more but that's no fun

a filter is basically composed by text (.ini) file with one romname per line. the alternative is to to download it at every new release is to update mame and and run mame -listxml > mame.xml
This contains pretty much everything mame knows about the roms and systems so you can use it to get the info you want. I have no knowledge of powershell so just like I did for marquees, i used WSL (Windows Subsystem for Linux) again and used awk, sed and grep to achieve my goal. I'm now moving to use an xml parser to see if I can make things simpler to understand and explain but for now I use this (which I won't explain nor its caveats)

/edit2: this code was updated and should be fine. 8913 arcade only, playable games and their clones as far as I can tell without exhaustive examination.
/edit3: now removing trivia, shangai(which many believe to be mahjong) and some other crap out of the way, arcade or not

time sed -r '/<?xml/,/<mame/d; /<machine/{:a; N; /\/machine/!ba; /driver status=\"prelim/d}' mame.xml | sed -r '/<machine/{:a; N; /\/input/!ba; /statriv|super triv|trivia|hollow|german|korea|touchmaster|japan|chinese|sunsoft|quiz|isdevice|ismechanic|runnable|mahjong|hanafuda|gambling/Id}' | sed -r '/<machine/{:a; N; /\/machine/!ba; /coins=/!d}' | sed -r '/<machine/{:a; N; /\/machine/!ba; /buttons="[1-6]{1}"/!d}' | sed -r '/<rom name/,/<sound/d ; /<dipswitch/,/\/machine/d; /<por/,/\/machine/d;/biosset/d; /\/machine/,/\/mame/d' | tee test.xml

and with the output I create the .ini file that will serve as a filter like this:

echo "[FOLDER_SETTINGS]
RootFolderIcon mame
SubFolderIcon folder

;; Arcade only MAME $(./mame.exe -version | awk '{print $1}') (by <whomever>)

[ROOT FOLDER]" > folders/Arcade_Only.ini ; awk -F\" '/machine/ && NF>1 {print $2|"sort -u"}' test.xml >> folders/Arcade_Only.ini ; rm test.xml

So yeah... i'm very rusty with regexp's but I do have the first part of the code working the other way around so I can get exactly what I want but it is also more complicated :D

/edit
Went to look for Rip Cord, Lunar Rescue, & Taikei Takara Sagashi. Rip Cord reminds me one other where you also play as a plane and have to hit columns of random numbers I believe and by doing that beat your adversary (read this with Sean Connery accent to sound cool :D) and not my cup of tea.

Lunar Lander is known by everyone I believe and harder than it looks but far from the better and harder Gravitar! Lunar Battle is on the same level of Gravitar to me.

Takei Takara Sagashi now that I don't remember but I do remember the time spent playing Glug Glug (1984) on the ZX Spectrum so this is a nice addition to my favorites now :D

PS: I love Vector games and the most played one must be Tempest, for sure.

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

@AnonTet,
> Rip Cord reminds me one other where you also play as a plane and have to hit columns of random numbers I believe and by doing that beat your adversary (read this with Sean Connery accent to sound cool :D) and not my cup of tea.

Cañyon Bomber? I like the concept, but it does get kind of tiresome. Really needs some extra features to make it shine IMO.

Lunar Lander is certainly a much different game than Lunar Rescue. I like them both, but there's a simple genius in the latter that I really admire. There were even some interesting copycat variations here and there.

Hey, Glug Glug looks nice!! Cool little remake of the Japanese game, looks like with some new features such as rope-eating sharks and undersea mines.


Okay, I see what you mean about mame.xml.
A few years back I was also hand-editing those INI files to make custom categories & such. It's indeed annoying that there's not a way to disable various systems and stuff that clutter up the games list.

I'll have to take a closer look at the code and MAME File Manager tomorrow or so.
I've been wanting a very low profile MAME frontend for awhile now, and all the modern ones seem to be bloated with bells & whistles I have no interest in. For my part, that's why I started editing the INI's in the first place.


Anyway yeah, wrist problems over here, too, part of a systemic issue that knocked me out of the work force going on 25years now. Also part of why I'm grateful for touch screen-systems, which are so incredibly helpful for saving my fingers / wrists.

 

[AnonTet]

Canyon bomber, that's the one I did not remember the name and yes, I agree with your comment.

And apparantly I can't read anymore or maybe my brain just associated lunar with Lander automatically because brains... who get them? :D

Lunar Rescue added to favorites Easy to learn, hard to master with simple controls, endless replay ability as a good game should be. So basically, this one is one I can play at the moment too as right hand just uses one finger :)

On the "space games" topic, I wonder how many of you "arcaders" actually play buttons only games like asteroids with... buttons only? Certainly makes gameplay a different experience.

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

On the "space games" topic, I wonder how many of you "arcaders" actually play buttons only games like asteroids with... buttons only? Certainly makes gameplay a different experience.

Do keys count? Because that's how I play most games.

I have a couple Logitech Dual Action gamepads, but haven't used them for quite a while.

I can't even remember the last MAME game I played where analog sticks worked better than a mouse or trackball. Maybe a flight simulator?

 

[AnonTet]

I think so, because my point was NOT using one input piece of hardware like a d-pad or joystick.
Keys are buttons anyway.

On the topic of analog controls, I've swapped years ago my microswitch joysticks for analog ones. The point was versatility and commodity as they're configured automatically per game so I don't need one 4-way restricted joystick (pacman), or 2-way restricted horizontal (Galaga 88), 2-way restricted vertical (defender), 8-way (Final Fight), 4-way rotated 45º (Q-Bert) and you also have dual joystick games where both joysticks have to have buttons or you'll need one more hand to fire :D

I still have my previous microswitch joysticks that allowed to change the restrictor from the top but just for 4<->8-way so it was still limited and noisy at night which is another reason to have analog sticks if you play at night.

Sure the authenticity of clicks and the physical feel of real arcade cabinets but... it's worth the trade mostly because some cabs had really soft action and did almost no "clicks". X-Arcade Tank control panel has that feel and it is great for fighting game because the circular motion made special attacks easier even if teh sticks were on the tall side meaning longer throw that somewhat reduced the great action feel.

In any case using a mouse is a no no for me in arcade. It feels like cheating. A 3" trackball on centipede will move 2 1/2 mushrooms on a real arcade and you can set a trackball in MAME to do that. With a mouse you'll be MUCH faster and precise. Same for Tail Gunner or Star Wars or a game I've finished on the PC (using a mouse) but never the arcade (1coin), Operation Wolf. The mouse is a huge advantage which is why you're right, it plays better, you're not playing it as it was back then.

 

[jimform2k1]

I have mapped my gamepad for a few specifics game to create 'deadzones' to make my gamepad behave a little better. ie. qbert or pacman

Info here: https://www.retrogamedeconstructionzone.com/2019/11/joystick-mapping-in-mame.html

I think so, because my point was NOT using one input piece of hardware like a d-pad or joystick.
Keys are buttons anyway.

On the topic of analog controls, I've swapped years ago my microswitch joysticks for analog ones. The point was versatility and commodity as they're configured automatically per game so I don't need one 4-way restricted joystick (pacman), or 2-way restricted horizontal (Galaga 88), 2-way restricted vertical (defender), 8-way (Final Fight), 4-way rotated 45º (Q-Bert) and you also have dual joystick games where both joysticks have to have buttons or you'll need one more hand to fire :D

I still have my previous microswitch joysticks that allowed to change the restrictor from the top but just for 4<->8-way so it was still limited and noisy at night which is another reason to have analog sticks if you play at night.

Sure the authenticity of clicks and the physical feel of real arcade cabinets but... it's worth the trade mostly because some cabs had really soft action and did almost no "clicks". X-Arcade Tank control panel has that feel and it is great for fighting game because the circular motion made special attacks easier even if teh sticks were on the tall side meaning longer throw that somewhat reduced the great action feel.

In any case using a mouse is a no no for me in arcade. It feels like cheating. A 3" trackball on centipede will move 2 1/2 mushrooms on a real arcade and you can set a trackball in MAME to do that. With a mouse you'll be MUCH faster and precise. Same for Tail Gunner or Star Wars or a game I've finished on the PC (using a mouse) but never the arcade (1coin), Operation Wolf. The mouse is a huge advantage which is why you're right, it plays better, you're not playing it as it was back then.

 

[AnonTet]

I used ultimarc tool for a while (I have their u360 joysticks) that is exactly the same as that.

99% of the times though, mame does a pretty good job.

Attached you can see a .zip containing my ini files for specific games that I found over the time to work better than what mame did, especially for Q-Bert. Of course, mame evolved since so it might be OK now but "if it aint broke, don't fix it" :D

Backup what you have and unzip into your mame/ini folder.

 

[AnonTet]

By ignoring Confucius "Don't use a canon to kill a mosquito" big time I've updated my "parser" not only using the canon but I've re-invented the wheel too because... why not?

Anyway, in the process I came across with Atari Basketball and now I wantneed another trackball :D

Moving to games, I landed on a more modern game and let me tell you that if you have to play a golf game, make it Golden Tee Fore '06 Complete AND use a trackball. You don't even have to like golf, it's how good this game is.

rom is gtfore06 and I think you'll need the CHD for it but It's the complete series with the best graphics, sound and gameplay. Its replayability is second to none and the commentary is great, especially when you fail...

I still don't know how an hole-in-one feels though.

I can only remember another great golf game series and it was LINKS on the PC.

 

[StevOz]

I have a plan... both cunning and devious...

Pi 400 + Fighter Stick + CoinOps

* edited to include torrent file.

One moment, please...

electroarcade.com.au

 

[AnonTet]

Nice.
Portability is definitely something I can't have with my rig :D

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

...Moving to games, I landed on a more modern game and let me tell you that if you have to play a golf game, make it Golden Tee Fore '06 Complete AND use a trackball. You don't even have to like golf, it's how good this game is.

rom is gtfore06 and I think you'll need the CHD for it but It's the complete series with the best graphics, sound and gameplay. Its replayability is second to none and the commentary is great, especially when you fail...

I still don't know how an hole-in-one feels though.

I can only remember another great golf game series and it was LINKS on the PC.

I've always liked golf & golf games. I seem to remember with the Golden Tee series, players would typically take hellacious spins on the big track ball to hit a good shot, almost throwing their whole body in to the effort. Problem for me is-- even if I owned an authentic cabinet, I'd probably exhaust myself or hurt my wrist trying to do that.

So then, I wonder what the best workaround might be for someone with gamepad & Kensington Orbit trackball? (assuming there is one)


I must say, some of the phone apps are loads of fun, like PGA Tour Golf Shootout. Now granted it's just a casual game, but what makes it loads of fun (for a while) is that as you gain experience and lucre, you have the chance to acquire fantasy clubs that have special abilities. For example, my favorite two drivers are Explorer, which gives you a boost when the ball travels over non-fairway areas, and Sky Fury, which gives you a boost when over out-of-bounds areas. With such special powers though, there's a real learning curve, and it's very easy to make a complete fool of oneself trying to make a 'clever shot.'

I know golf-purists would probably be horrified by such tripe, but the game truly is well-balanced and thoughtful, requiring a player to carefully choose their mix of clubs (you can only have five in one bag), and carefully choose which bag to use for any given hole.

Indeed, there more than a few similar-concept games which take the whole thing in a bells & whistles, cartoony, clownish direction, but I really appreciated the way Golf Shootout didn't go in for any of that, and kept it a realistic, sober experience beyond the fantasy-club aspect.

Anyway, it's quite a lovely game that will keep one entertained for a good few months, before eventually moving on, which I largely have at this point. Next up on Android is a more realistic golf game from what I understand, called WGT Golf IIRC.

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

Nice.
Portability is definitely something I can't have with my rig :D

You know, if the PB bug absolutely takes me again, I think it would be well worth my time to get something similar to Steve's deal, but specifically for pinball. (bonus pts for maybe a paddle / potentiometer to play certain MAME games?)

This would be a similar-footprint unit, but arranged with pin-style button setups, including at least one force-sensitive system to handle nudging from multiple directions. I mean, I know these have been out for awhile, but no idea what the latest good ones are.

With such a gadget and my big rotatable monitor (thanks, mom!) I feel like I could have a perfectly good PB-playing setup without needing to build a cabinet. Which isn't going to happen anyway, haha.

 

[xenonph]

You know, if the PB bug absolutely takes me again, I think it would be well worth my time to get something similar to Steve's deal, but specifically for pinball. (bonus pts for maybe a paddle / potentiometer to play certain MAME games?)

This would be a similar-footprint unit, but arranged with pin-style button setups, including at least one force-sensitive system to handle nudging from multiple directions. I mean, I know these have been out for awhile, but no idea what the latest good ones are.

With such a gadget and my big rotatable monitor (thanks, mom!) I feel like I could have a perfectly good PB-playing setup without needing to build a cabinet. Which isn't going to happen anyway, haha.

Check out this PinStubby created by my friend Steve "Slydog43".
Perfect for those who don't have the room for a full cabinet.
https://www.vpforums.org/index.php?showtopic=38417&hl=stubby&page=1

 

[AnonTet]

I've never played the original arcade of golden tee (but I would've if I have one around). Good thing in emulation is that you can adjust the sensitivity to avoid that absurd amount of spin required.

Still I'm pretty sure people exaggerated back then... maybe. 1st atari sports games with HUGE trackballs for co-op/vs games shown in movies like.. tron have people frantically spin the damn balls like there was no tomorrow but those were late 70's early 80s.

I did not look if golden tee had the later 3" trackball (like I have) and no I don't have to spin that hard to go above 300yards, though, putting like this on the green is harder when we need more "finesse" as we are closer to the cup hole.

I don't like to watch gold and I did play it a bit when I was young (at school!). I do love minigolf but nothing around that I know of anymore. Still, for some reason I love golden tee and LINKS... so good that people still play it and mod it (like re-volt).

I don't play on my mobile anything except mahjong and it is once in a blue moon like... waiting in line at the hospital or something :)

What do you mean PB?

Regarding rotating things, I'm now fighting to get the main monitor to autorol in mame (vertical games) but keeping the marquee virtual monitor horizontal. I know I can do it game by game but c'mon, doing't it 1by1 by changing the roms .cfg files in a notepad or via UI or even using .lay files is just insane, to say the least.

I know that "pedestal" post. Since I have a fully functional CP but at 80x40x20cm MDF and HEAVY control panel I though I'd buy a table and put it on wheels so I could play on my 4k TV instead of making one :D

the other most valid reason and I though of that for years now is VR. I mean, I don't have to worry about layouts and all that.

PS: for emulation VR, EmuVR seems to be the way to go. Not sure if it was mentioned hear before or if it is even known. But since my VR headsets are stored for ... too long I haven't tested it.

 

[StevOz]

Just for more spin, well I did make a pinball based upon this great classic and Bach never sounded better than this.

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

I feel like Steve made a bunch of cool, original tables, but also did some brilliant mod-work for the ages. He's a "total table-boss" IMO.

Just look at his dang'ol body of work:

Resources by StevOz

pinballnirvana.com

In case that's not clear-- I'm a BIG fan of my colleagues. Like... sometimes we quibble, sometimes we get 'pretty riled-UP!'

Sometimes 'we can't stand each other for a stretch,' (that's my theory, haha)
But sometimes it kinda works out in the end..? :D

 

[AnonTet]

So, nothing new with regards to compadres. :)

 

[StevOz]

So, nothing new with regards to compadres. :)

Not sure if this counts, though seriously considering pulling the trigger on this monitor. Looks to be an almost perfect MAME monitor, ticks a lot of boxes and I can get it $100 off...should I...?

32'' Full HD IPS Monitor with AMD Radeon FreeSync™ - 32MN500M-B | LG AU

Discover LG 32MN500M-B. Click for pictures, reviews, and tech specs for the LG 32'' Full HD IPS Monitor with AMD Radeon FreeSync™.

www.lg.com

*edited to include a shot of my other arcade inspired pinball.

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

So, nothing new with regards to compadres. :)

FUCK YOU

How's that?

 

[StevOz]

Nani?!

 

[AnonTet]

FUCK YOU

How's that?

Perfect :)