Code/Example BAM New Feature ShadowColor fins (flippers)

Coding and examples for future Pinball and BAM
BAM also lets you "detach" a flasher's light source from the model. So you can hide a nano flasher in the apron or lockbar, and then reposition "the light" in script (x/y/z).

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BAM also lets you "detach" a flasher's light source from the model. So you can hide a nano flasher in the apron or lockbar, and then reposition "the light" in script (x/y/z).

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yep i know, but it not work with shadowmap.. shadowmap is attach to model position..
Shadowmap with Flasher are better. But it's like that, it's limited. It was just an idea.
The other solution is to make all shadowmap need ( ex 2 for one slingshot ), then combine the 2 shadowmap TGA to one TGA for one flasher after
 
yep i know, but it not work with shadowmap.. shadowmap is attach to model position..
Shadowmap with Flasher are better. But it's like that, it's limited. It was just an idea.
The other solution is to make all shadowmap need ( ex 2 for one slingshot ), then combine the 2 shadowmap TGA to one TGA for one flasher after

Just use an extra "bulb" to do the same thing, but have it "not rendered". Then have the bulb and flasher do the same action. The bulb will still give the shadowmap in the position you want, and the detached flasher can give off the light.

For Silent Hill, I use:

- detached flasher for "real light"
- "not rendered" bulb for shadowmap (with no glow)
- bulb for colour and for glow and no shadowmap
- both bulbs on same position
- flasher in same "area", but can be used for two bulbs (sling plastic, etc)

I have all three used for GI (in one sling, or flipper plastic,etc) and each do the same action.
 
I know, but this is not what i want to do.
I want to make volumetric light, like flasher do.. to add reflect light on ball and element from each light position.. bulb don't do that. So because we can't make more than 7 flashers at the same time.. it's just not possible.. it's like that.
 
I know, but this is not what i want to do.
I want to make volumetric light, like flasher do.. to add reflect light on ball and element from each light position.. bulb don't do that. So because we can't make more than 7 flashers at the same time.. it's just not possible.. it's like that.

Yup, I understand.... believe me, I was trying to find ways to make it all work... but for the flashers you are limited.

Using a detached flasher in each sling, maybe the flipper plastics, and one or two in the upper areas works well for GI combined with bulbs for shadowmaps and "glow" if desired. This gives off light on the ball and surrounding areas nicely when controlled properly for brightness of the GI flashers.

Then when you want other real flashers to go off for a light show, then you can turn off all the GI lights, and then you have 7 flashers again if needed. this is what myself and SLAMT1LT do on our tables.

It's still way better than anything you get with VP (which has no dynamic lighting), and no Blender pre-rendered textures are needed. :)

I use a very large Sub for GI_ON and GI_OFF that controls everything. All GI lights, texture brightness, glow,etc. (its really big because Silent Hill has like 10 sets of playfields now :) )

1637249968500.png
 
It's still way better than anything you get with VP (which has no dynamic lighting), and no Blender pre-rendered textures are needed. :)
It's not really true, not really false... VP have Dynamic lighting, but it's not volumetric.. It's flat and you can use screen space réflection, and set how much distance bulb reflected on element. Watch video from my Stargate or Shaq Attaq table.. I do not use any prerender for lighting.. i juste made prerender for shadowmap. You'll see light reflect on the ball and other element.
Meanwhile in FP, bulb do not have any diffusion of light.
 
It's not really true, not really false... VP have Dynamic lighting, but it's not volumetric.. It's flat and you can use screen space réflection, and set how much distance bulb reflected on element. Watch video from my Stargate or Shaq Attaq table.. I do not use any prerender for lighting.. i juste made prerender for shadowmap. You'll see light reflect on the ball and other element.
Meanwhile in FP, bulb do not have any diffusion of light.

It's absolutely true. VP has "no" dynamic lighting...at all. Ask the devs. :)

The only form of lighting that is "sort of" dynamic that you can see is on the ball in VP... that's it, and its just simple probes. Nothing else on the table in VP is affected because VP doesn't project and use real full 3d rendered dynamic lights that affect all objects and surfaces that can change / move, etc.

So the only thing you get on VP is nice light probes on the "ball".... but that's it (and it would be nice if FP had this as well for inserts,etc). The VPW guys and all the other guys who recreate VP tables in Blender hate VP's lack of dynamic lighting.... not just me :) Their job would be much easier if it did have dynamic lighting.

VPE one day will move way beyond all this... but in the mean time... I'll take FP-BAM's lighting over VP's anyday.
 
don't make a mistake beetween Dynamic light and volumetric light. Sorry for the barrier language
 
VP literally only has static lighting.... as in you can only use "textures" to mimic light (like FP's bulbs and regular lights). It does not have volumetric or dynamic lights.

It does have a "main" light that can give off static specular highlights on objects... and you can have inserts / lights give off a static glow light on the ball (which does look nice, and I wish we could do that on FP, and also wish we could get the glow effect surrounding lights).... but that's all you get.

Everything else is all smoke and mirrors. It simply does not have "real" lights that can dynamically affect everything on the table. That is it's big limitation and has always been the case. It's why so many VPX table authors became masters in Blender, because they can't make the table look good for realistic lighting without doing so. That said... their work looks gorgeous in the end... even without dynamic lighting.

It's also why those same VP table authors are looking forward to VPE.... so they can finally be able to have good "real" dynamic lighting.

I'm not a Blender master. I can do some modeling... but not much. So without FP-BAM's better lighting... I couldn't make my stuff look as good as it does.
 
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If you were hoping to get the nice glow effect on the ball from every light all over the table (inserts...bulbs,etc) like what you can get on VPX... then yes, you can't do that on FP. You are limited to the 7 dynamic lights / hardware flashers (that affect more than just the ball).
 
Don't mind me asking but FP can texture the ball. FP can also use bump, normal and specular maps on textures so... what am I missing?

And explain it to me as if I know nothing about this... which is the case. Unfortunately, I only know bumpmaps are to give that emboss look to stuff to make it like it has, literally, bumps and that's about it.

The ball reflects the playfield so a colourful playfield can be use to a point to give "colour" to the ball.
 
You can use more than 7 flashers on a table. You just have to think about how many are turned on at the same time. Of course you probably will want to have gi turned on most of the time. On some tables, I have converted some flashers to bulbs when I thought that were too bright and wanted to reduce the number of flashers. I sometimes add a second bulb to the flasher housing to light up the top of the flasher. Then I can add new flashers for the gi. There is usually a solution when you want to add flashers for gi.

I have added many flashers for gi on all the tables I mod. I use an invisible flasher that I add to the same layer as the bulbs. You can barely see the flasher in the editor. It looks like the center of a bulb. I use regular nano flashers during the development of the lighting and switch to invisible when I am done. Terry prefers to use nano flashers and separate the housing from the light using a BAM code that I don't recall.
 
I often place a single invisible flasher between the 2 main flippers at 0 elevation. Then place 2 or 3 others at different elevations around the table. It usually works for me.

I used the spotlight option once to produce some directional light. You don't have to make it look like a spotlight. It seems like there is a setting where you can make the edges more blurred than on a spotlight.
 
@GeorgeH

The "detach" command you can see in the pic above.


Don't mind me asking but FP can texture the ball. FP can also use bump, normal and specular maps on textures so... what am I missing?

And explain it to me as if I know nothing about this... which is the case. Unfortunately, I only know bumpmaps are to give that emboss look to stuff to make it like it has, literally, bumps and that's about it.

The ball reflects the playfield so a colourful playfield can be use to a point to give "colour" to the ball.



To better illustrate what we were talking about:

The pic below is from VPX Getaway.

You can see the ball has light being shown on it from at least two sources close by. One is a light within the flipper plastic, and another is from the 1 MIL insert light. These are the "glow spots" on the ball. When the ball moves, you see the these glow spots from the lights change when you get close to each of this type of light. In VPX you can add these kind of lights wherever, and they will show on the ball like this when it gets close. So its common for them to be added for all inserts, and for GI positions. This is something you can't do on FP except with hardware flashers.

Again... in VP you can only see this on the "ball" (maybe some other metal items like the rollover switch). These lights don't have a dynamic light effect on the rest of the objects on the playfield like it does on FP.


When you see some really good looking tables in VPX... the illusion of light and shadows is done in Blender and baked into the textures. These textures need to be rendered for every flasher / light combinations. They are then imported into VPX and changed up throughout gameplay. It's a lot of work, but those guys are getting really good at it.

1637255648924.png





For FP... the ball reflects the "playfield" texture (and swapping that changes the image on the ball as well).

The playfield reflects the ball image, even if it changes.

FP hardware lights (dynamic lights) projects and affect everything on the table.... the BALL... objects... everything correctly in 3d space like a real light would. BUMP maps... no matter where they are in FP are affected by dynamic lights (except maybe decals, maybe overlays), and will be affected by those lights as they move around, and so will their "bumped" image.

My inserts in RF2 and Silent Hill show this nicely as does the pyramid objects on top of the slings in Silent Hill when the lighter ball moves around them in the dark.

FP is a completely 3D environment at all times. So it simply "works" as its expected when using dynamic lights. What we don't have is occlusion or dynamic shadows to go along with them. That is something VPE will have.
 
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I understood what you guys are talking about. I just wanted to know if a texture could be used to workaround it with all those *maps available, that's all.

I used the detach method for effect in Spectrum table. And why use nano or dots or whatever if you can simply not select a model in fp editor? At least you can see where they are if months later you learn a new trick and comeback to edit the table :D

Lets hope VPE actually sees the light of day soon, no pun intended.
 
@TerryRed , where do you read i say light is fully Dynamic ? I say: it's not really true, not really false , and have those dynamic light for some element... i never Say for all! You thinking like binary... so if some element have light reflect depend from position, it's a Dynamic lightning... otherwise how do you tell that ? Dynamic lighting say lot of thing... if i think like you, it's like if i say FP is not a pinball game because it not have slingshot treshold, not eos, not trickable etc etc... so it's not a pinball game because some elements are missing.. But even without that, it already a pinball game. So please don't be closed minded, nothing is binary, i know you don't like vpx, but you can't say vpx as no Dynamic light.. Ok it has only few dynamic light, but it has Dynamic light where FP don't have it... and it was the idea i have with Flashers... that is not possible.

I know how work VPX, in contrary FP.

Cheers,
 
I understood what you guys are talking about. I just wanted to know if a texture could be used to workaround it with all those *maps available, that's all.

I used the detach method for effect in Spectrum table. And why use nano or dots or whatever if you can simply not select a model in fp editor? At least you can see where they are if months later you learn a new trick and comeback to edit the table :D

Lets hope VPE actually sees the light of day soon, no pun intended.

Its still a long ways off... and even when its at a release state... still more to do for adding support for original tables,etc. I wouldn't expect anthing for a long while yet.

Since GPUs are still expensive... its probably good to wait a long while because once you see everything with raytracing enabled... yah you'll need a new GPU and CPu probably :)
 
@TerryRed , where do you read i say light is fully Dynamic ? I say: it's not really true, not really false , and have those dynamic light for some element... i never Say for all! You thinking like binary... so if some element have light reflect depend from position, it's a Dynamic lightning... otherwise how do you tell that ? Dynamic lighting say lot of thing... if i think like you, it's like if i say FP is not a pinball game because it not have slingshot treshold, not eos, not trickable etc etc... so it's not a pinball game because some elements are missing.. But even without that, it already a pinball game. So please don't be closed minded, nothing is binary, i know you don't like vpx, but you can't say vpx as no Dynamic light.. Ok it has only few dynamic light, but it has Dynamic light where FP don't have it... and it was the idea i have with Flashers... that is not possible.

I know how work VPX, in contrary FP.

Cheers,

I wasn't correcting you... I was just following up with more specific info for clarification. The way hardware lighting is projected and handled on FP is very different to VPX... and its affects "everything" in FP in a fully 3d space. That is significantly different than VPX (which is what I mentioned above).

As you said... there are things VPX does that FP doesn't (and I wish it did). Being able to have glow effects around the entirety of normal lights would be amazing in FP.

As I mentioned in another post... I'm not a FP fanboy (like SLAMT1LT is for example) and I don't hate VPX. If I was, then I wouldn't have done so much work on VPX (and continue to help others with it) over the years. I may not like it's limitations (and I'm not the only one, as many great authors also feel the same way), but it certainly does things I very much do like.

I simply use the best tool for what I'm creating. Sometimes its FP, sometimes its VP... and one day it might be VPE.
 
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and its affects "everything" in FP in a fully 3d space. That is significantly different than VPX (which is has what I mentioned above).
Flashers only... Not bulb, bulb affect strictly nothing in FP in contrary with VPX (even if its only few element ) as i say..
 
Flashers only... Not bulb, bulb affect strictly nothing in FP in contrary with VPX (even if its only few element ) as i say..

Yes, I agree. The whole time I've been referring to flashers / hardware lights being the only dynamic lights in FP. I said specifically that other FP lights / bulbs are not dynamic and are only textures and do not affect anything else.
 
Read my post with the Getaway pic (and my other posts). I agreed that VPX has lights that can project on the ball and maybe some other small elements. Its still not the same as full dynamic lighting for the entire table like in FP (and we can only have 7 on at one time in FP)... but it still looks cool in VPX and I said I wish FP could do that.
 
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Waiting long, if because of raytracing is a waste of time. It can be implemented later anyway. Trust me, i would love to use my rtx3080 now but i'd rather have the engine working even if we had to recreate everything instead of a "simple" import.
As long as we can user the same resources (models, inserts, whatever) it would be more than enough to start. It can actually push development further, faster, knowing what can/cannot be done and what bugs are in so many different machines...

Better, just add a library of objects instead of import some. That way it's assured there will be no conflicts.

OK, this is getting way too offtopic so it's my last entry on this :)
 
@JLou5641

I've always really liked how VPX "inserts" looked with the glow effect, and how they can light up the ball, etc. I too wish we could do what you were trying to do in FP.

Since we are off topic anyways... thanks for the hard work you've been doing with DF2! I've been too sick to "play" much lately, but I look forward to trying to get it working nicely with Silent Hill.

@AnonTet

BilboX is working on a FP table importer for VPE... but it won't be as good as the VPX importer. At best it may get the models and textures,etc... but I expect all code / physics etc to most likely need a complete conversion (it uses C#). Anything BAM related (like Custom models,etc) will most likely not be converted either. Unity supports FBX models, etc so that shouldn't be too hard to make work. I simply expect to need to rebuild most of the table either way... but with a full 3D editor and modern tools... that will be the easy part compared to VP and FP.
 
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