New version of medieval madness??

[Shockman]

I agree with you PacDude about that 30 day BS. The reasons are too simple and basic to explain, sufice to say it is just not right. People are in jail, the hospital, vacation, broke, without internet, on and on and on and on, and on, for much longer peroids than that.

I don't think the staffers were out of line to come up with a rule, I just think they got it wrong. I was in the hospital for over 1/3 of that time, and it could have been equal to that 30 days easy enough. If I learned that that stint cost me ANYTHING in terms of ownership of the fruits of my work, I would not write a thing but personally come after any staffer that made that rule or was/is in power while that rule was/is in place (any and every one that I could find and afford to visit) and beat them about the eyes and nose.

 

[mjrtoo]

As an outsider to the pinball MOD geniuses (I just play them and love them!!). This all seems a bit childish, if your uploading your tables for free, and allowing people to play them for free...I don't understand why you have to ask permission for s($%.

I mean it's all for the good of the community right? If someone can improve upon an already sim'd table, why can't they, it's not like the original designer won't get a credit for the script or maybe for the table graphics or animiations or what-have-you.

For only being here a short time, it sure seems like for an open source community, there are a lot of 'tudes here. Hell, if I was smart enough to make a table, and someone like PD or PK wanted to mod it...I would be honored, I don't think there is anyone here that would disagree that they make some of the best tables out there.

 

[yogiholzer]

Someone here said: The biggest problem with this community is people that refuse to communicate.

I totally agree!

I'm now totally pissed of someone here and at VPF too can alleges that me having dishonest motives without any protest and without any excuse. See my last post in this thread. I don't tell name because I think it's clear who was meant. If not for all but to whom was meant. I would have expected any response. If not from addreesee than from someone else. But nothing. Just ignored.

Things like that let me think about to not care anymore. Not about MM only, but about pinball communities and then about online communities at all. I'm still not at other communities than pinball ones and I probably won't.

Keep people feel ignored and don't take them seriously and see to what that leds.

I just don't know if I have fun to post here and there and if I like to contribute what I can anymore. That's not much and probably people already and ever thought, it's nothing worth at all.

 

[tiltjlp]

As an outsider to the pinball MOD geniuses (I just play them and love them!!). This all seems a bit childish, if your uploading your tables for free, and allowing people to play them for free...I don't understand why you have to ask permission for s($%.

I mean it's all for the good of the community right? If someone can improve upon an already sim'd table, why can't they, it's not like the original designer won't get a credit for the script or maybe for the table graphics or animiations or what-have-you.

For only being here a short time, it sure seems like for an open source community, there are a lot of 'tudes here. Hell, if I was smart enough to make a table, and someone like PD or PK wanted to mod it...I would be honored, I don't think there is anyone here that would disagree that they make some of the best tables out there.

Since you're new, mjrtoo, I'll give you some history. About 4 1/2 years ago there was a fellow, Nicky Special, who thought it was OK to slap modified backgrounds on tables and release them in his name as FX versions. He didn't do a blessed thing to the tables other than putting a doctored background on tables, often just minutes after the original author had released their table. Then one day he did this with an original release, and all hell broke loose. That's when the so-called community rules came into existence.

But even before that, an author, Druadic, had his tester put his name on one of Druadic's soon to be released tables, and released it as his own. Shortly after that the guilty party left VP, and I became Druadic's new tester.

But since those rules were made, which say originals can not be modded without the authors permission, Jive modded an original by Rockinghorse, and released it without permission. Eventually Rockinghorse allowed Jive to host his mod on Jive's site, with the restriction that he could not promote in any VP forum. Jive ignored that restriction, but still was never banned, which should have happened.

Like the rules or not, they are the rules we have currently, and they need to be followed. And that is why there is all this back and forth about this current table.

John

 

[PacDude]

I honestly don't know where comments from people like Yogiholzer are coming from. Maybe I haven't been paying attention or can't understand what he's saying, but unless Yogiholzer has done some mods or something without authorization, I don't get it. I really don't.

Much of what I'm saying has to do with arguments put forth, not PK's mod in particular. If Macho and Joxer are OK with his mod, fine. I think there is a reason Joxer is being obtuse, though. He's not saying go ahead in plain english because he wants to see a NEW table appear, not a mod of his table. It goes without saying that won't happen, but he's playing dumb for some reason.

But the basic idea in the community is the same as any other community. If you build something yourself, it's yours to control (at least within the bounds of what work you did youself, not the copyrights on the artwork or whatever). Giving it away for other people to use is not a forfeiture of any rights thereof either. The way some people talk, though, I get the feeling they'd rather see authors lock their work (rather than let people adjust settings to their own personal liking) than agree to respect their work (i.e. unlocked doesn't equate to take whatever you want without asking).

 

[StevOz]

Well if the're that precious then they should lock their tables, as for me and any of my tables, they will always be free to mod, no permission required, all mods will stand or fall on their own merits and TBH most of PKs mods do nothing for me.

 

[bob]

I still like the TAF mod by bob best.

That was one of my better copy and paste jobs 8) I released a mod of Roadshow too with Carmen Electra in the gameroom and a couple of minor additions.

I had many mods on my PC where I had added cabinets and backdrops and little changes to my favorite tables, but when I bought a new pc a couple of years ago, I never bothered to even save my tables folder.

Seriously, you have to be an idiot to want to be a VPM table modder, the community will eventually tar and feather you. PK has always been a gentleman and has always shied away from responding to derogatory posts.

I disguise my modding by using someone elses table as an engine IE, Powered by Ales's Triple Action or Powered by Eala's Asteroid Annie. I don't release them in the Mods forum either. I ask for permission before I start, but I don't have any permission records and since I change the theme, I don't give them any say so in the table. I try to give the original author as much credit as possible by stating that I only slapped a graphic on an already great table.

@Yogi - Keep replying to our posts, I like your questions and answers. Your english is getting better all of the time. We need more Yogi's in the community.

:thumright: :thumleft:

 

[bob]

Since we are discussing unauthorized mods and possible bannings (which doesn't mean much since VPF now doesn't require a complete background check to post there anymore) and community rules, I thought I would share part of an old PM from almost 3 years ago from one of the most trusted and most admired community members. I won't tell you who it's from, but it's relevant to the current topic.

03-13-2003 03:27 PM: Well AJ personally banned PacDude, with the support of the entire staff at the time so he can't come back again - case closed, no contest for him. We downgraded the tables per his request. If he hadn't forced the issue of the tables being removed, and if his supporters had been patient, it could have been different. Chris was the catalyst that sealed his demise here. So we needed a reason for him to stay banned on top of all the other reasons, and that is the one we're going with - he betrayed the current point of contact/original authors of Rocky & Bullwinkle (DesAngel/CyberDMan) and Dr Who (specifically KidC).

Kristian and Maloti are still to be decided - but for banned users, those two are the only ones who have a chance (of which there are 12 or so banned accounts).

There are about 20 users who are on Read Only. Of which you are one of

The good old days....

 

[tiltjlp]

What really peeved me at the time, was that after Bob and Rodgz were banned, I did my best to get banned too, but no one would ban me. I kept attacking Kinsey, thinking for sure I'd get bounced, but instead she ended up quitting. Maybe I should ban myself here for a day so I can become a member of the Gold Star club. The only problem is I probably couldn't unban myself, and I don't think any of the other admin here could stop laughing long enough to reinstate me. Those were some strange times, that's for sure.

John

 

[yogiholzer]

I honestly don't know where comments from people like Yogiholzer are coming from. Maybe I haven't been paying attention or can't understand what he's saying, but unless Yogiholzer has done some mods or something without authorization, I don't get it. I really don't.

For short explanation: I felt treated from you without any respect by alleging I was trying to bypass credit to Macho and/or Joxer with a pretense of a "from scratch" table by making the example in the table modifications thread.
You didn't say that exactly, but I did understand that. I reread twice again and I think I can understand else. I'm sorry if I understand wrong.

Feel free to comment or forget it. It's not worth to worry about. However, I don't care about anymore.

 

[Pinball_Ken]

StevOz[/b]]Well if the're that precious then they should lock their tables, as for me and any of my tables, they will always be free to mod, no permission required, all mods will stand or fall on their own merits and TBH most of PKs mods do nothing for me.

Love your tables, too, StevOz!

PK :)

 

[zerhino]

I would never think of locking my tables. In fact, I don't know exactly how. I've noticed tables without an editor and script, but thought that was a bug. My tables will always be open to mad with my permission.

 

[PacDude]

I honestly don't know where comments from people like Yogiholzer are coming from. Maybe I haven't been paying attention or can't understand what he's saying, but unless Yogiholzer has done some mods or something without authorization, I don't get it. I really don't.

For short explanation: I felt treated from you without any respect by alleging I was trying to bypass credit to Macho and/or Joxer with a pretense of a "from scratch" table by making the example in the table modifications thread.
You didn't say that exactly, but I did understand that. I reread twice again and I think I can understand else. I'm sorry if I understand wrong.

Feel free to comment or forget it. It's not worth to worry about. However, I don't care about anymore.

Yogiholzer, I have no clue where you even fall into that thread so how could I have been talking about you? I thought PK made the claim he was making a brand new table.

What I was saying was IF that table had stated it was brand new and didn't credit Macho or Joxer, THEN I would have had a problem if it in fact was using some of their work. I always credited people that contributed to tables like TZ, etc. when I was working on it. Most people in this community get nothing else but the credit/recognition for the work they did on something. Seeing as it's supposedly authorized now, there shouldn't be an issue anymore.

 

[mjrtoo]

Sorry to dredge up old memories that seem to be painful to some. That wasn't my intent, I just want a new version of MM!!

Just feel I should comment on a couple of my favorite tables. The PD's High Speed and Getaway are amazing, I'm also having a blast with Eala's Pinbot (probably the best sim I've seen so far).

If anyone else can recommend some of their favs, I'll would love to check them out (not so subtle 'change the subject' attempt)

 

[GHoSTFaCe]

I like Bublehead's recreations of Jack*Bot and The Machine: Bride of Pinbot. Both seem much easier than the actual machines, but sometimes I like that in VP/VPM games.