Petition: Should Dr. Palmer Be Extradited to Zimbabwe to Stand Trial?

[sleepy]

An interesting development. There is a "We the People" petition online at the official U.S. whitehouse.gov website which asks Secretary of State John Kerry and Attorney General Loretta Lynch to extradite Dr. Palmer so that he may stand trial in Zimbabwe for the killing of Cecil the Lion.

My feeling is that, at a minimum, this was an act of vandalism. This was a captive, protected lion, not a wild animal. The lion was killed by his trust in people. A wild lion would have never approached the hunters. That the hunters attempted to destroy the GPS collar on the dead animal tells the story.

They then took the head and skin of Cecil After they failed to destroy the GPS collar, or enough to know better, and they kept those body parts for taxidermy after they knew that they had committed an illegal kill. They weren't honest, and the facts need to be sorted out.
You can sign the petition here:

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pe...tan-walter-james-palmer-face-justice-zimbabwe

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

"The lion was killed by his trust in people. A wild lion would have never approached the hunters."

from what i've read, that is not correct. the hunters were apparently using the standard practice of dangling a fresh carcass and concealing themselves. it's like having a woman with a plate of bacon stand behind a doorway-- most guys are going to walk through that doorway.



"That the hunters attempted to destroy the GPS collar on the dead animal tells the story."

i didn't know that. i read that the guide said he 'stoopidly left the collar behind,' but this explanation makes more sense.



anyway, i don't know how honest or not these guys really are, but i am not impressed by their comments. 'we're full of regret... we had no idea this was a beloved lion... but we had all proper licenses and permits, so legally we did nothing wrong... we just HAPPENED to be hunting next to a sanctuary'. (oops!)

i don't know exactly who should administer their penalty, but i think the dentist is probably looking at the loss of his business and career as well as being persona non grata in many parts. (then again, maybe if he moves to the deep south all will be well for him)

it doesn't sound to me like a petition is needed at this time. zimbabwe wants him and the federal wildlife commission (fish and game i think?) is still trying to find him. the laws are probably quite clear on the extradition process. it would certainly be interesting to see what zimbabwe does with him... which could be anywhere from a light fine (in US$) to a brutal prison stay i would guess.

...

overall these guys seem like such a cavemen to me. or victorian elites, i guess. at least i can see a point in deer season to thin out the overpopulation and help check lyme disease, road incidents and crop loss. but why the f-ck is anybody hunting big game anymore? they've got enough problems as is.

yeah buddy it's hard luck that you killed a popular animal, but that's not a valid defense to me. if the blood is on your hands, then you're responsible for better or worse.

apparently the donald's sons are also big game hunters.

 

[sleepy]

You nailed it Ike. That they were anywhere near the sanctuary.
But that GPS doesn't matter if the guide forgot it or not. They saw it, and right there they knew that this was a study animal. So they didn't admit to it. They instead took off with the trophy.

 

[sleepy]

I was wondering about this point, and I found a voice from the past; March 2013:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/27/s...or-more-fences-to-save-the-big-cats.html?_r=0

And now:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/07/30/cecil--lion-conservation-wildlife/30882321/

 

[sleepy]

And Cecil's brother Jericho has now been shot dead by a poacher. Jerico was the hope to protect Cecil's cubs from Pride fights and certain death.

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

yeah, i read about that. that really sucks.

if there's a silver lining, it sounds like lion-hunting is going to get prohibited in zimbabwe, and big game hunting has taken a global black eye.

the bigger problem is of course poaching.

 

[Coil_Smoke]

I had an epiphany about thirty years ago. Some friends took me to a huge 'Outdoors Show' near York PA. I became appalled by the endless displays of dead animals and travel packages offered to go get 'em "yourself". That industry is not sport. I have evolved to where even fishing gives me second thoughts. (Plus The Fucktards and Bureauwanks @ the DNR can suck each others' asses)
As for this dentist dude. Dentists are some of the crazier folks I have met. I think it is all the mercury they get exposed to. No excuse for their known criminal acts tho. He should do some time some where. Possibly reduced by some magnanimous support for organizations that actually do some good.(Is There One?)

 

[StevOz]

Terrible 'sport' and how such a one sided 'sport' can even be considered such beggars belief...

As for punishment, this dentist should have to perform dentistry on wildlife animals for many a year!

On a related note...

We have now lost another species..

http://www.iflscience.com/plants-and-animals/four-northern-white-rhino-left-after-female-dies

 

[sleepy]

Now they're saying that Jericho may still be alive; that it was another lion that was killed.
And that Jericho is not Cecil's brother; he's more of "a dutch uncle" to the cubs.

And the white rhinos! They are trying in vitro by using an egg from the dead female.
Their only other option would be an attempt to clone.

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

i like how nature works. if there's no reason for aggression...

and...

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

assholes:
http://news.yahoo.com/zimbabwe-accuses-2nd-american-illegally-hunting-lion-060415307.html

 

[sleepy]

Yeah. Another Yankee Doctor. This dude also hunts Impala. Where the Hell do creeps come from?

 

[StevOz]

Yeah. Another Yankee Doctor. This dude also hunts Impala. Where the Hell do creeps come from?

Err...just to not too finer point on it the whole US gun culture me thinks...

Your average disillusioned teen cannot go hunting in Africa, though they can vent anywhere fully armed with your government endorsing the right to do so.

 

[sleepy]

The point of allowing gun ownership is strictly about not allowing the government and its military the upper hand as an authoritarian ruler. The reality is that, with gun control, the government would still have the guns. Defending the Right of the people to keep and bear arms is not an excuse to allow killing for pleasure, or by criminal or political intent.

The Right of the people to keep and bear arms is the cause to defend ourselves against those who would kill. I would prefer any non-violent means to subdue a dangerous individual or government.

EDIT: Let me clarify that statement. As long as we live in a world where Liberty, Justice and Equality are not respected, we need the arms to defend those principles. The butchers of Somalia will not yield to verbal requests. And most gun attacks against the innocent are in fact subdued by defenders with guns. We should exercise a better vetting process for owning arms, to prevent the crazies from doing what they will.

But the Zimbabwe kills were committed with bows and arrows.

 

[StevOz]

I'd really like to see that bow and arrow, no doubt it would put most small arm guns to shame and not something that would be an off the shelf item in anywhere else in the world, except perhaps the good ol' U S of A...Ay?

 

[sleepy]

The senseless killings are simply not the instance of the Right to keep and bear arms.
And I wouldn't be so quick to trust the government with keeping the guns to themselves.

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

i ran across this article the other day... forgot to post it... now remembered:
http://www.vice.com/read/why-do-hunters-think-its-cool-to-kill-lions?utm_source=vicefbus


it's pretty interesting because it addresses the issue from the industry of hunting's side. if these guys are to be believed, the royalties from big game hunting actually -helps- preserve wildlife, habitat and the economic health of these poor countries.

OTOH i disagree with these folks that humans are of a 'higher order' than animals, and that killing a lion is no different from slaughtering livestock. (altho neither is really a good look for humanity, particularly on the livestock front)

getting back to the original point, one might argue that by licensing big game hunting, these african nations are handling the situation a lot more morally and pragmatically than south american countries, for example. as in, the ones where slash-and-burn of the amazon is a non-issue, and native species are sort of fair game for whoever wants to do whatever to them.

in other words, the situation might be a lot murkier than those of us in the knee-jerk camp initially suspected. of course i still don't sympathise with the actual hunters, and ted nugent can kiss my arse.

 

[StevOz]

I knew about this, no doubt it could / did work with all the controls enforced, corruption of that also enforced. So how and why was hunting allowed near any reserve, the exclusion zone should have been wide enough to exclude such incidents from occurring.

All said and done, it is better to regulate such activities, then attempt to ban them outright, though eternal vigilance is required.

 

[sleepy]

The thing is, those preserves have no fencing. Maybe the poachers should be fined to pay for an installation.