Williams PIN·BOT (Williams, 1986) Energy Flashers Out

[Coil_Smoke]

Hi Gang, Pin Bot has an indicator that lights to show 'Solar Energy Increased'. This is a large red insert in the middle of the Pop Bumpers. Ironically not labeled in the manual on page 54. Item #6c Energy Flashers. It consists of 4 #89 flash lamps under the playfield. The solenoid drivers link to connectors IJ11&1J12 at lower left of board on Page 65 . Please help me identify the connector and pin. Then the transistor on page 69? that drives those lamps. I have checked the power resisters that seem to be associated with these lamps. I have replaced the bulbs. The lights failure to light is somewhere else...C_S

http://mirror2.ipdb.org/files/1796/Williams_1986_Pin_bot_Manual.pdf

PS> I will try to get some better light to tell the wire color going to these flash lamps.

 

[pinballdaveh]

with all the normal stuff out off the way. resistor board resistors and connections and yellow lamp wiring all good right? to increase solenoid driver output capacity a solenoid select relay is used to change 8 outputs into 16 outputs. on the solenoid chart its the first 16 solenoids or flashers listed. 8 of these solenoids are group wired and called (a) and the other 8 are group wired and called (c). the solenoid select relay transfers or connects the ground wires to either the a or c groups. so you cant have both a 6a and a 6c at the same time. this relay might be part the diode switching board mounted under playfield. check for any wires off and solder connections of board. of what i see it has at least 3 jacks. not much info in the manual about it. a high res pic of board and relay would be great.

 

[Coil_Smoke]

That a/c relay is in the back box. It is quite audible. Just for shits and giggles I add this about that relay. The game has a start sequence that causes the relay to flash lamps. It starts slow and ends with that relay switching on and off really fast. You just don't usually see a relay operating that fast...Like 20,25 times /second. Rat-a-tat-tat.....
I'm going to look for relays under the playfield any way.

About the trouble at hand> Does the 6 in the 6c label correlate with a pin #6 at the connector? That would help. Those power resisters complicate troubleshooting. I don't get the way they are wired. A 4 real Pin Tech once said they keep the lamp filaments warm(like a bias voltage, I built a color organ that used 100Ω resisters to shunt some AC to the lamps. This is to provide faster response and longer bulb life). What do you all think about that notion?(Should I Post A Poll? I'd vote NO) I think they drop solenoid voltage down so the #89's don't burn up. I have to better trace the wires/ colors and do some more continuity checks.

 

[pinballdaveh]

COLOR ORGAN I HAD ONE

in this case a shunt resistor would be connected in parallel to its load to decrease the current to the load, giving longer bulb life. response time comes from the scr or triac that drive its load and its input

 

[Coil_Smoke]

I started building color organs when I was about ten. Yeah, I tried Scr's And full wave Triac's. There was not much difference. Triac's where fairly new back then. Using them seemed really high tech. They helped us understand more about the nature of AC and waveforms. The bulbs (I always drove 150W color floods)(Try to find one of those today. Everything is 90 watts) made less noise with the Triac's. The theory was to keep the bulb filaments warm. The resister made them brighten faster cause they were already almost lit. The bulbs where supposed to last longer because there was less inrush/cold start current every time they lit.

 

[pinballdaveh]

the two resistors form a voltage divider circuit, that lowers the voltage to the two flasher bulbs in series. so your guess is correct. im not sure if that 4 real tech is correct about the keeping the filaments warm, i dont think so. i was a 4 real amusement tech in the 70's and 80's . in between vending lobs i worked for OPT industies in phillipsburg nj as a power supply production tech. they made power supplys for rockwell who then sold them to gottlieb. we know them as system 1.

 

[Coil_Smoke]

the two resistors form a voltage divider circuit, that lowers the voltage to the two flasher bulbs in series. so your guess is correct. im not sure if that 4 real tech is correct about the keeping the filaments warm, i dont think so. i was a 4 real amusement tech in the 70's and 80's . in between vending lobs i worked for OPT industies in phillipsburg nj as a power supply production tech. they made power supplys for rockwell who then sold them to gottlieb. we know them as system 1.

I'm with you on the voltage divider. I should get my ass in gear and go try to fix the thing. This dismal weather has me stuck to a chair watching YouTube pranks and UFOs. I can't seem to get enough
of>>>

<a href="<iframe width=" 560"="" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/ZucHU8IzOp8?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen="">">


<a href="<iframe width=" 560"="" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/ZucHU8IzOp8?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen=""><iframe src="//www.youtube.com/embed/ZucHU8IzOp8?rel=0" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>

 

[pinballdaveh]

thanks for the pranks video. did you ever get a chance to work on the flasher problem?

 

[hgpinball]

To clarify things:
- the resistor pairs serve both purposes: voltage divider (5 Ohm, connects flashers to transistor) and 'pre-heat' circuit (330 Ohm, connects flashers to GND).
- each resistor board contains 2 pairs of resistors, each pair driving one pair of #89 flashers, these are wired in parallel.
- The A/C relay does not switch the GND, but the SOL.B+ voltage of approx. 29V between the A and C devices (solenoids or flashers, see list in manual p. 27). GND connection is made through the transistors Q22...Q33, via the Diode Switch Board.
- transistor and connector pin details are found on p. 27 in the manual.
- Flashers are treated and referred to as solenoids

From the list on p. 27 you can see that either the 'Energy' flashers or the 'Ramp Lower' solenoid are actuated by transistor Q23, depending on the state of the A/C relay. So, if the 'Ramp Lower' function works properly (run a solenoid test!), you can be positively sure that the path from the 'A' side of the Diode Switch Board down to Q23 is fine, and so is the transistor itself.
The problem then is either (in wiring sequence) in
- the 29V supply to the flasher sockets,
- the resistor board or
- the Diode Switch Board.
You can measure the voltage on the flasher sockets against GND, while the A/C relay is activated (solenoid test). If that's ok, move on to the resistor bd. A resistor may be broken or unsoldered (that is quite unlikely: since all 4 flashers fail, this would mean that both 5 Ohms resistors on the board have gone bad at the same time...).
On the Diode Switch Board: check the diodes that separate the solenoid and the flashers.

- An example of the flashers' resistor board circuit is on p. 63 'Power Wiring Diagram' in the upper right corner, but while the drawing suggests that the two flashers were wired in serial, they are in fact wired in parallel.
- The 'NOTE' on manual p. 28 decribes the function of the A/C relay.

Good luck!

 

[Coil_Smoke]

Good NEWS

To clarify things:
- the resistor pairs serve both purposes: voltage divider (5 Ohm, connects flashers to transistor) and 'pre-heat' circuit (330 Ohm, connects flashers to GND).
- each resistor board contains 2 pairs of resistors, each pair driving one pair of #89 flashers, these are wired in parallel.
- The A/C relay does not switch the GND, but the SOL.B+ voltage of approx. 29V between the A and C devices (solenoids or flashers, see list in manual p. 27). GND connection is made through the transistors Q22...Q33, via the Diode Switch Board.
- transistor and connector pin details are found on p. 27 in the manual.
- Flashers are treated and referred to as solenoids

From the list on p. 27 you can see that either the 'Energy' flashers or the 'Ramp Lower' solenoid are actuated by transistor Q23, depending on the state of the A/C relay. So, if the 'Ramp Lower' function works properly (run a solenoid test!), you can be positively sure that the path from the 'A' side of the Diode Switch Board down to Q23 is fine, and so is the transistor itself.
The problem then is either (in wiring sequence) in
- the 29V supply to the flasher sockets,
- the resistor board or
- the Diode Switch Board.
You can measure the voltage on the flasher sockets against GND, while the A/C relay is activated (solenoid test). If that's ok, move on to the resistor bd. A resistor may be broken or unsoldered (that is quite unlikely: since all 4 flashers fail, this would mean that both 5 Ohms resistors on the board have gone bad at the same time...).
On the Diode Switch Board: check the diodes that separate the solenoid and the flashers.

- An example of the flashers' resistor board circuit is on p. 63 'Power Wiring Diagram' in the upper right corner, but while the drawing suggests that the two flashers were wired in serial, they are in fact wired in parallel.
- The 'NOTE' on manual p. 28 decribes the function of the A/C relay.

Good luck!

Wow, Thanks for the detailed explanations. I'm just back from an extended Memorial Day camping trip in Maryland's Allegheny mountains. The ramp circuits work just fine so glad to hear it is driven by the same transistor. I'll report back to this thread when I track this fault down...C_S

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

nice cautionary video of zoo animals there

 

[Coil_Smoke]

The Beat Goes On....

Thanks to Pinball Nirvana Forums - View Profile: hgpinball@@AMEPARAM@@View Profile: hgpinball</title>@@AMEPARAM@@hgpinball

I got the inspiration to look back into this. I found a broken lead on one 30Ω 7 watt power resistor. Got excited. Fixed it. Still have the problem. I tested all power resistors under playfield,OK. Tested all 20 some diodes on the board and then some. All have .56 something volt reverse breakdown. No shorts. No opens. Ohmed out many a wire/circuit. Will start checking into 29 volts and a/c circuits tomorrow....C_S