Randy & Ultracade, something fishy?

[tiltjlp]

My goal for the past few months has been to fix a few of the bugs in VP7, but since I haven't gotten around to it I have uploaded a version of VP 7 with no expiration date that people can use. There are still a couple annoying issues but hopefully things people can live with for now.

I uploaded the new zipped exe to flipperless.com like I usually do but it's changed and I can't seem to find where it out it put it. If somebody knows a better place to upload it easily let me know.

- Randy

The above was posted today by Randy at vpf. Reread the first paragraph closely. It sounds to me as if this version of VP might be the last one we see, doesn't it to you? For whatever reason the promised UltraCade updates seem to be just so much vaporware. Basically the unexpiring VP7 is the same as VP7alpha5, so who is the one who has been untruthful to the VP community? Is Randy unwilling to incorporate Ultracade's improvements, or did David Foley of UltraCade pull a quick one on all of us to find out what needed fixing in Visual Pinball?

We'll probably never really know. Randy has a track record of never saying a word more than absolutely required to get his message across. And since supposedly any UltraCade changes and improvements have to go through Randy, we're left wondering what the facts really are. We can point our fingers at Mr Foley, but as far as we know, he's been upfront with us all the way. Randy, as the creator of VP, really doesn't owe us any explaination, but as his beta testers all these years, don't we deserve something?

Lots of questions and no answers, it seems. Oh well, I still have VP 6.1 which I've used to make a good number of tables, and I plan using it to make a lot more. This seeming misdirection concerning the future of VP makes the pending release of Future Pinball look mighty interesting indeed. Now, if FP proves to be more adaptable than VP and if we can expect FP to be supported better than VP, whose to say where we'll all be a year from now. But Black has never been big on communications either, so maybe we'll be left holding two imperfect programs, hoping and wishing for the next big update, which may never come.

John

 

[kristian]

I wish he could at least fix the graphics card driver related bugs. Installing new Nvidia drivers screwed up VP for me. Oh yeah, I can play with Scapino's patch alright but many users aren't technically advanced (or informed) to use these things...

 

[tiltjlp]

I wish he could at least fix the graphics card driver related bugs. Installing new Nvidia drivers screwed up VP for me. Oh yeah, I can play with Scapino's patch alright but many users aren't technically advanced (or informed) to use these things...

I sure hope that the UltraCade improvement will be added to VP, and that not only the graphics card issue, but the crashing for non-XP SP2 users is fixed. Patrick and I still use VP6.1, and if there are a lot of fixes and improvements made, I hope we'll be able to use them too. I just don't see the need for an unexpiring version unless Randy isn't planning any more updates. This is one time I'll be happy to be wrong.

John

 

[Pop Bumper Pete]

maybe ultracade wanted Randy to focus on the part of the program that plays tables
after all that is what ultracades focus is on, table that play

Why would they want time and money spent on the building side of the program?
All they are wanting to do is pay for the finished product, to them it would not matter if VP crashed every five minutes during table construction
just as long as the game play is there, that is all they want

TMFP

 

[destruk]

Since they need to redesign the table to look correct on their gaming platform, they would want editor improvements just as much as anyone else.

 

[tiltjlp]

I guess we'll just have to wait and see. I'm sure Randy isn't going to all of a sudden become a fountain of information. And since UltraCade supposedly is sending any improvements to Randy, I doubt if they would post about what they do send to Randy. I'm hoping it's simply taking longer than they had expected. To me it's not that big a deal, I still have 6.1, which I've used for every table I've done so far.

John

 

[kristian]

I guess we'll just have to wait and see. I'm sure Randy isn't going to all of a sudden become a fountain of information.

I believe that, because that's EXACTLY what my crystall ball told me this morning.

 

[yogiholzer]

The reason is, that Randy will not do any updates on VP. It's his last and cause of that an unexpiring one!

And where I get that info from? Nowhere.

I'm just thinking about the possibility Randy gave permission to UltraCade to offer updates directly. If they will do and if updates will be useful for VP on PC that's another thing.

 

[davidsss]

Hey Tilt, do you have problems running VP7 without WinXP? I run VP7 on my old computer, running WinME without any problems. It has crashed a couple of times when making tables but most of the time it is fine. Sounds a bit strange that it is so unstable on your system, as far as I knew VP7 should run fine on earlier versions of Windows.

DS

 

[ArcAngel]

Well there's another reason to keep Vp6.1 around. The fact that you can dynamically compile with 6.1 and not with 7 means having to keep 2 EXE's around when I want to change the Firepower standup targets on PD's table, for instance - or change TAF to the Gold version - these changes cannot be done with VP7 as I guess Randy doesn't believe in dynamically compiling anymore.

 

[tiltjlp]

Hey Tilt, do you have problems running VP7 without WinXP? I run VP7 on my old computer, running WinME without any problems. It has crashed a couple of times when making tables but most of the time it is fine. Sounds a bit strange that it is so unstable on your system, as far as I knew VP7 should run fine on earlier versions of Windows.

DS

I don't think I really had any problems with VP7. I do have XP, I don't have SP2 though, which I removed when it wouldn't behave with 6.1. The main reason I still use 6.1 is because my partner Patrick prefers 6.1. This way we won't eventually run into any compatability issues. If I remember correctly, the only new feature on VP7 that interested me was elasticity of gates.

Any real issues I have aren't really with VP at all, but rather with MicroJunk, which I loathe. I don't and won't upgrade to Vista until I have no other choice. As an example, I upgraded from Windows 3.1 to XP only because a new printer required that I make the change.

But as for the original topic of this thread, has anyoe noticed that we haven't heard anything from David Foley or anyonne else from UltraCade for quite a while? Could be they're busy getting Pinball Legends ready to roll out, but maybe Randy asked them don't to post about any improvements, since he doesn't have any intentions to incorporate them in our version. While that's his right to make such a decision, it doesn make me wonder.

John

 

[destruk]

VP7 and vp6.1 are still compatible, I mean you can load a table in vp7 and save it, and load it in 6.1 - the gate elasticity setting would be discarded. Otherwise it's fine. I use vp7 to mass-import and mass-delete graphics and sounds - easier than importing 600+ wav files when you can just import all of them at once.

 

[tiltjlp]

VP7 and vp6.1 are still compatible, I mean you can load a table in vp7 and save it, and load it in 6.1 - the gate elasticity setting would be discarded. Otherwise it's fine. I use vp7 to mass-import and mass-delete graphics and sounds - easier than importing 600+ wav files when you can just import all of them at once.

Yeah, I know they're compatable. I just figured that since Patrick uses 6.1 I might as well too. Besides, at least for me, since I don't use SP2, VP 7 hangs up on me more than 6.1 for some reason.

John

 

[PacDude]

I had a chance to play with the new VP (a developer at Ultracade asked me if I would test it for them and provide physics feedback), but I had that Arizona trip and I don't know how much time I'll have now regardless since I have to move or drive large distances regardless of my job choice.

I'm not sure I should do them any favors without a working contract anyway (i.e. I'm not big on working for commercial companies for free). One of the developers was supposed to forward my concerns to David, but so far I haven't heard from David directly since early September so I'd be concerned at this point too. I wanted to believe my initial impressions were wrong, but now I'm not so sure. You would think if they only wanted to know what's wrong with it, they could have asked without announcing a thing (which can be really bad PR if they don't follow through on their promises and I know at least one person that DID sign a contract and so I'll be interested to see if they deliver on their own legal offer). I'm still hoping this is just typical developer delays, etc. I know they're pretty busy there. But at least VP7 doesn't expire now and talbes are compatible for the most part with VP7 (save elasticity settings on gates, etc. which just return to default if you resave on VP6.1). So development can still go on regardless if we never see any public updates from Ultracade. I did see one of their arcade products in an arcade in Phoenix and it was a pretty impressive interface, etc., not just some cheap throw-together frontend for Mame and it shows that some arcades do buy their machines. That place had 26 pinball machines, though so maybe it wasn't a typical arcade to begin with. There were people playing classic games like Donkey Kong on it while I was there, though.

 

[tiltjlp]

I've been around for four years now, and the only difference in VP now to VP then is the XP SP2 fix and gate elasticity. I'd say that it was abandoned long ago by Randy, and all that has kept it alive is authors who have found workarounds and creative innovations, like the Dude, shiva, Kinsey, Destruk, etc, etc, etc.

It's too bad you're ethical Dude, or you could test UltraCade's new version and then make sure it saw it's way onto the HD of every VP author. Personally, I'd est it for them, out of curiousity if nothing else. Besides, if you say no, that might ruin any chances of you ever getting a contract with them.

I contracted David Foley shortly after he showed up at vpf, mostly so I could determine for myself if he was on the up and up, and I have never heard back from him after he asked for a list of tables I had made, as well as Patrick's and Druadic's, and several SS. I hope I'm wrong but I do have my doubts why they even told us about their deal with Randy, or their willingness to share their improvements. Besides, they did say they would send the improvements to Randy, so they could die right there.

John

 

[shiva]

I was very concerned about this as well. it wasn't the main reason I shut down the site so suddenly, but it was something that occured to me as I was reading the info at VPF for the last time.
It was then I knew I would never make another public release again, and that all my tables from now on will be private, and just to select people I know will accept that for what it is.
I can come up with some creative solutions sometimes after all, and there's one thing about me that everyone can at least agree on, I really hate even the concept that someone makes money out of my work, no matter how little it actually is.
I'm afraid there's no way to prevent this from happening either. Even locked tables will not work, so I feel that a few more authors will start doing private releases just like me from now on because of that. If you don't have a problem with that, then it's great that people share. Some of us, like me, don't like that, and now, unfortunately, this is the only solution we have.
I don't feel reassured about it at the very least. I know there have been a lot of words about this, but I would prefere action, not words before I ever think about reconsidering.

 

[tiltjlp]

A buddy of mine is toying with the idea of selling his Pinbot and getting a different pin. I had suggested that he wait and see what the new UltraCade Pinball Legends is like, and what it sells for. Now, if they don't seem to be following through on what they had promised as far as updates to VP, I'll advise my friend not to even consider their cabinet, and to either keep his PinBot or get a couple of EMs, although I'm sure he wants newer tables.

What bothers me the most isn't the lack of a VP update, since that could be due to Randy. But the fact that UltraCade bardged onto the VP scene, got all sorts of suggestions on both flaws and improvements, and then basically folded up their tents and sneaked away does gripe me. I simply don't see that as the honorable way to do business. As far as I know, only one author has a contract with UltraCade, so I'll be interested to see what tables are included with Pinball Legends. How many of us are in a position to sue them if they use one or more of our tables? Maybe those folks who were telling us about their experiences with UltraCade should have been listened to more closely.

John