Request - Flipper Return speed adjustment

shiva

Administrator
Staff member
Site Supporters
Joined
Oct 3, 2004
Messages
1,461
Solutions
2
Reaction score
1,052
Points
132
Favorite Pinball Machine
Trigon
While working on my new flipper code, I'm just about ready to do the new EOS code, which allows in real pinball the ability to flick the ball from one flipper tip to the other when the flipper is at it's maximum swing. Ignoring the issue of reflexes not being fast enough using a keyboard to be able to do this, I would still like to do this anyway for those with cabinets, and to make this feature a bit easier to use for everyone. The VPX community tried this, and the key to their success was lowering the flipper return speed through code in the script that made the flipper return from it's highest swing slower and keeping track of it with a variable. This is one of those "missing" physics that fp never had and having the ability to lower the speed of the flipper after releasing the button makes this trick, and a couple of other ones more possible.

Just requesting the ability to adjust the flipper speed downward and being able to manipulate the speed as part of my code. I'm not sure if we can manipulate the speed of the flipper moving up when ever we want in our script, if so can you repeat it here as I missed that part. If we can do so, that may fix the problem of the ball causing the flipper to lag if the omega is set too low.
 
Looks like @ravarcade hasn't logged in in a week, so I'm adding this tag to hopefully nudge him.
 
I would be interested in using this myself if it were available.
 
@shiva: 2 years old post: http://www.gopinball.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=86764#p86764
Look also at my video, it shows how to modify params and how use slow motion.

Look at .releaseOmega param for flipperExt. It should be more/less same thing as "dynamic flipper" code.
If i remember correct, .angle & .angleDiff may help to code rules base on flipper angle not on time.
 
thank you rav. I thought you had done something but couldn't find it anywhere in that mess at gopinball. Have a quick look tonight, may be something down the road though as I think people would be happy if I just get what I have already done out. The ball mass code I just found might be a good solution as well.
 
Hi @ravarcade . I'm working on Charts. Release Omega work fine, but for the flipper return it's not working well. The problem is Omega Force = Speed on FP, meanwhile in real, for Flipper return, there is "no force" from the return spring. In fact, the flipper mass when flipper up is like heavy, due to the coil, but for return, the flipper mass is very very light. Is it possible to make mass or omega lower when the ball is in contact under the flipper bats to prevent powerfull "back kick" ?
 
Here is simple test table where is detect if ball can hit flipper from from up or down and addjust flipper mass.
In this example you can change flipper mass but not release omega.
Problem with release omega is: new value will stay after ball moves away. So, if you make flipper slow for ball contact, it will stay slow until it will not get another conter from up.
It is possible to control when we want to restore original flipper release omega, but it need more compicated scritpt.
 

Attachments

  • flipper-side-detect.fpt
    224 KB · Views: 65
Here is simple test table where is detect if ball can hit flipper from from up or down and addjust flipper mass.
In this example you can change flipper mass but not release omega.
Problem with release omega is: new value will stay after ball moves away. So, if you make flipper slow for ball contact, it will stay slow until it will not get another conter from up.
It is possible to control when we want to restore original flipper release omega, but it need more compicated scritpt.
It does seem like you can hit the ball pretty well with the back stoke in your example after pressing the J key. I might try it with the dynamic flippers.
 
Thanks rav. Have to have a real good look at this one, as my newest version of shivaflippers has no walls or triggers, but...

Is there any way to prevent a ball dragging a flipper at a very low omega? I've got it pretty good now, but the flipper drags a bit after it hits the ball. My code is in the prehit, but thinking a solution would be to use Newton tick to update.
 
Hi @ravarcade . I'm working on Charts. Release Omega work fine, but for the flipper return it's not working well. The problem is Omega Force = Speed on FP, meanwhile in real, for Flipper return, there is "no force" from the return spring. In fact, the flipper mass when flipper up is like heavy, due to the coil, but for return, the flipper mass is very very light. Is it possible to make mass or omega lower when the ball is in contact under the flipper bats to prevent powerfull "back kick" ?
I have tried this on a the table I am editing but I don't notice much difference in the game play. What harm does "back kick" do? Of course, I almost never hit the ball on the underside of a flipper.
 
Last edited:
The reason for this is simple George. If the ball is behind the flipper, sometimes you hit the ball so hard that the ball deflects off the apron and comes shooting out between the flippers at high speed, or travels up the drain lanes and sometimes will even exit the drain lanes and return to play. It just looks horrible, it's a visual thing, and makes FP look really bad sometimes.
 
@GeorgeH , also, pinball with upper Flipper like Adam's for exemple, when a ball come behind the upper flipper, it kick her back at full speed. Like @shiva said, it's horrible.. It happen me often, meanwhile normaly, there is "low force" and ball can be block behind the flipper
 
OK I guess I will use it, mainly for the guys that play my table mods. It does no harm. Rav set the mass under the flippers to 10.01. Does that work for you guys?
 
i not touch fp since two weeks, i'm very busy for now
 
Especially on upper flippers I guess it could be really useful. I get a lot of balls locked or kicked full strength down.
I certainly see myself using it on Black Knight (when I come back to this hobby in a few weeks) unless something unforeseen or bug prevents it.
 
Especially on upper flippers I guess it could be really useful. I get a lot of balls locked or kicked full strength down.
I certainly see myself using it on Black Knight (when I come back to this hobby in a few weeks) unless something unforeseen or bug prevents it.
That has happened to me a few times on the upper flippers. You do need to set the mass in Rav's code to be what you would normally use in the XML for when the ball is above the flippers.

What happens more often to me is the ball gets stuck under the upper flippers. I wrote a guide on how to fix it but I think I am the only one who ever used it:

 
That has happened to me a few times on the upper flippers. You do need to set the mass in Rav's code to be what you would normally use in the XML for when the ball is above the flippers.

What happens more often to me is the ball gets stuck under the upper flippers. I wrote a guide on how to fix it but I think I am the only one who ever used it:

I could always get the ball from under a flipper so i never even bother looking. I always though it was more annoying than a problem really... I'm pretty sure this is what happens 100% of the times!
 
I could always get the ball from under a flipper so i never even bother looking. I always though it was more annoying than a problem really... I'm pretty sure this is what happens 100% of the times!

I have actually used the fix only twice. On both tables, the occurrence of the ball getting stuck under the flippers was much more frequent than normal. The ball would get stuck several times a game. It is true that you could nudge it out but it was more than just an annoyance as frequently as it occurred.
 
My work of the day for a missing stuff that i will add on new Dynamic Flipper V2 under dev:

I find a good way to make the back of flipper not powered. Now you can kick the ball on the back, ball just boucing with no force from back of flipper. Also, ball push flipper a little, and flipper don't stuck on his position. It always move back to his starting point. it not need to use a specfic Omega or Mass.. It do not take care of it.
The only thing i would to make it perfect, it's to delete the little delay for the flipper moving to his starting position. It's due to the Prehit Zone all over the flipper which is too big on the back. i think @ravarcade could make a smaller zone on the back. Otherwise, i think it possible to delete this gap with a timer after hit, but i not too good in script and mainly on FP.

I joint the ex file and here the script needed:

Code:
Dim FRup

Sub RightFlipper_preHit()
    If RightFlipperExt.ContactPoint = 0 and FRup = 0 and RightFlipperExt.angleDiff < 52 then
        RightFlipper.SolenoidOn
        RightFlipper.SolenoidOff
        AddDebugText "Under: " & RightFlipperExt.Mass
    End If
End Sub

and this in key code:

Code:
            ' If the Right Flipper Key Has Been Press, Activate The Right Flipper(s)
            If (KeyCode = GetKeyCode(RightFlipperKey)) Then
                RightFlipper.SolenoidOn
                FRup = 1
                PlaySound "Flipper"
                Else
                FRup = 0
            End If

View attachment 2021-11-03 13-04-04.mp4
 

Attachments

  • flipper-side-detect.fpt
    225.5 KB · Views: 30
Forum activity
Help Users
You can interact with the ChatGPT Bot in any Chat Room and there is a dedicated room. The command is /ai followed by a space and then your ? or inquiry.
ie: /ai What is a EM Pinball Machine?
  • No one is chatting at the moment.
      Chat Bot Mibs Chat Bot Mibs: Beers is our newest member. Welcome!
      Back
      Top