Williams Solved The Getaway: High Speed II (Williams, 1992) Help! System Blows F112 Fuse on Power Up

[twist]

I am stuck and would like some advice on what to look for next.

I have a 1992 Wiliams The Getaway High Speed II pin that has work flawlessly for 4 years. A few weeks ago during a good game, all the flippers stopped working and the LED board lit up almost all the LED's. The rest of the playfield appeared normal. I switched the game off waited a few minutes and powered it back up. Nothing but a buzz from the speaker. I checked every fuse on the boards and found the F112 Secondary Solenoid fuse was blown. I replaced it and turned it back on again - fuse blew right away just after the number match knocker banged. I checked under the playfield for shorted & broken wires. I did find that the contact switch attached to one of the flipper solenoids had come loose and the contacts were now stuck together. I tightened the 2 screws holding it and it went back where it should. I thought I had it fixed.

Doing a little more research it was suggested that the BR3 might be bad and need replacement. I decided to just replace the whole WPC Power Driver Borad with a new one from PinLED. Yep, still blows fuse F112 on power up. :verysad:

I disconnected all the connectors from the Power Driver board and have tried to hook them up one at time with power ones getting connected first. I can connect J101, J102, J103, J104, J105 & J112 and the F112 fuse will not pop. If I hook up J114 which I think powers the CPU board the fuse blows. I checked the voltages on the J114 pins and they are correct.

Any help / tips are greatly appreciated. Sorry for the long post -
Mike

 

[Wizards_Hat]

A quick read of http://www.pinrepair.com/wpc/index.htm (Marvin's pinrepair guide), definately seems to indicate you have a bad bridge rectifier.
Personally, I'd follow Marvin's guide on testing them, and move on through everything he recommends (always worked well for me in the past).

Regards,
Dan.

 

[twist]

Thanks Dan for the post. I thought the same thing after reading through his web pages. I decided to replace the entire power driver board with a new one from PinLED http://www.pinled.de/pinledeng/html/produkte.php . Unfortunately it did not help. Its a really nice looking board, but my problem must be elsewhere.
Mike

 

[sleepy]

If a new power board blows the fuse then your short is past the power board.
Marvins indicates a BR, OR A shorted flashlamp socket OR a short in a coil, and that F112 is the AC power line for coils, solenoids (bumpers) and relays and motors (*I think* there's a motor in the Red Line loop).
With the POWER OFF Try disconnecting the contacts at the coils first (That Flipper Solenoid that had the loose switch for instance), bumpers and flippers, relays and bumper solenoids (coils) and check for zero ohms resistance with an ohm meter. A part with a coil that has Zero or too-low-resistance = repair or replace.

http://www.pinrepair.com/wpc/index1.htm#fuses

Fuse F111 or F112 or the Main Power fuse blows.
The BR3 or BR4 bridge(s) are defective. Another cause is a shorted flashlamp socket or a shorted coil. A defective relay or motor will also cause this. Note: if F111 or F112 blows more than once there is probably damage on the power driver board. Either of those fuses will blow first, but also the game's main power fuse can blow too (which may not happen until the coin door is closed).
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Power circuit problems and potential solutions.

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Shorted coil can cause F101-F105 and F112 to blow.

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F112: 7 amp slo-blo. Before bridge BR3. Used for solenoid AC input voltage.
A failed BR3 bridge will cause this fuse to blow and perhaps the main power fuse.

All coil devices such as solenoids use either AC voltage or variable DC which mimics AC/Alternating Current by being converted from a flatline voltage to an oscillating waveform similar to an AC waveform.

 

[twist]

This forum is great - thanks for all the help.

I checked each solenoid with a ohm meter and the ones that are the same type matched each other. I did not see any of them read a open circuit or a short. I also disconnected the motor for the high speed loop. Still blowing the same fuse.

Next, I disconnected the wires to the 3 flipper solenoids and the fuse does not blow. The system lights up briefly, then goes dark.
I took a voltage reading on the disconnected wires and all three have 84 volts going to them. This probably explains why they are energized when the power switch is turned on.

What should I look for next? Does 84 volts sound high for the solenoids?
Thanks again, Mike

 

[sleepy]

I'm not a pinball tech. I only have some knowledge of electricity.
I would check the Getaway manual for specs and see if the ohm/volts/amps ratings are listed. Also check to see if the ratings are coded on the flipper solenoids themselves
or on the board that feeds them, or if there is a chart in the backbox or table base somewhere, or if the wires are color coded, or the associated boards have the ratings printed on at the connectors. You can find the manual and schematics at:

http://www.ipdb.org/search.pl?any=t...=name&search=Search+Database&searchtype=quick

 

[Wizards_Hat]

This forum is great - thanks for all the help.

I checked each solenoid with a ohm meter and the ones that are the same type matched each other. I did not see any of them read a open circuit or a short. I also disconnected the motor for the high speed loop. Still blowing the same fuse.

Next, I disconnected the wires to the 3 flipper solenoids and the fuse does not blow. The system lights up briefly, then goes dark.
I took a voltage reading on the disconnected wires and all three have 84 volts going to them. This probably explains why they are energized when the power switch is turned on.

What should I look for next? Does 84 volts sound high for the solenoids?
Thanks again, Mike

I shopped out a getaway about 6 months ago & had flipper problems...I remember measuring the voltages at 74 Volts...so 84 doesn't sound too bad tbh.

Sorry, can't offer any more advice than that at the moment.

Regards,
Dan.

 

[twist]

Thanks again for the help and information. It is all real good stuff!
I am still trying to locate where the problem is. This is driving me nuts!

I think I am making progress because I can now get the system to go further into play mode.

Currently the system has all three flipper solenoids disconnected and the larger ribbon connector removed from the dot matrix controller board - connector J106.
With the system like this, the game will go into play mode and the playfield seems to work (except the flippers of course) The dot matrix screen is garbage, and there is no sound (ZZ Top), but all the other solenoids, flash lamps, lights, etc. seem to work as they should.
I would like to further test the flipper solenoids, but I am not sure what the best way is to do this... Can somebody tell me how to test these three wire solenoids?
Do any of these symptoms mean anything?
Mike

 

[sleepy]

I'm sorry. I lost track of this thread.
Maybe Wikipedia has the answer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinball

Flipper solenoids contain two coil windings in one package; a short, heavy gage 'power' winding to give the flipper its initial thrust up, and a long, light gage 'hold' winding that uses lower power (and creates far less heat) and essentially just holds the flipper up allowing the player to capture the ball in the inlane for more precise aiming. As the flipper nears the end of its upward travel, a switch under the flipper disconnects the power-winding and leaves only the second sustain winding to hold the flipper up in place. If this switch fails 'open' the flipper will be too weak to be usable, since only the weak winding is available. If it fails 'closed' the coil will overheat and destroy itself, since both windings will hold the flipper at the top of its stroke.

Now mind you, I don't know for sure, but three wires sounds like one is a common ground connect for the two coils remaining, like a three wire center tap transformer, but again, I can't say for sure about the flipper wiring.

 

[twist]

This is really useful information. Sleepy, thank you for posting it. With your information I decided to get back to trying to fix the system.

I disconnected the flipper solenoid that had the switch fail in the closed position and powered the system up. This time the kickback solenoid stuck in the energized state until fuse F105 blew. This fuse is labeled "solenoid 1 - 8". I thought that maybe this means I have 2 solenoids that are bad and disconnected the 2 wires to the kickback solenoid. Replaced the fuse and tried again.

Now the system will power on with no fuses's blowing, but will not go into play mode. (Only thing disconnected is the flipper and kickback solenoids)

Can somebody tell me if the system should do this if everything else is working correctly? If that is correct, then I should be able to replace those 2 solenoids and the system will run again?

Thanks again for all posts!

 

[sleepy]

If you can power up, then have you tried the built-in Test Mode?
There's one there for flipper coils. Open Coin Door > hit ENTER twice > hit the menu cycle buttons until you see Test > hit ENTER.
Cycle to Flipper Coils or any useful available test.

 

[twist]

I wish I could get to the test mode. I guess I did not describe the system state very well - sorry about that.
On my system when you first turn it on the CPU board has 3 LED's next to each other. At the game turn-on LED D19 & D21 are on and D20 is off. After a brief pause the game goes into normal operation mode with D19 off, D20 Flashing and D21 on.
Mine does not reach the "normal operation" state so I don't get to a point where I can get into the test mode.
Hope this helps -

 

[twist]

I think I have most of this problem solved now. I replaced both bottom flipper coils and replaced the fliptronics board and now the system is much better. I still have one open problem that I will post in a seperate thread.
Thanks everyone for the inputs.

 

[faralos]

ok ya' beat me to it i was gonna' suggest the solenoid board as it seemed that was where the problem lay. I'd also check for stuck switches anywhere under the damn thing, as any wire touching any solenoid contact will also short out the solenoids! had that problem once the damn tilt qwire was touching a flipper contact making all sorts of neat zapping experiences when you hit that flipper button and it always took out the flipper coils of all things! as well as zapping the hell out of my hand each time!