The people versus Ron Bizzle

[highrise]

Hey Guys

Well, I'm going to be objective here, but I was wondering what people think about the way Ron Bizzle has reacted to the criticism of his tables, and his general behaviour on this site recently.

For the defence:

He has the right to make any table he pleases, and he has the right to his own opinions and views.

Some quotes in his defence:

"This table is not intended to OFFEND anyone. So if anyone disagrees of such a table theme, then please don't download it."

Also, if you look through the thread entitled 'my tables', Ron started out as a friendly chap with a lot of enthusiasm. He also made some tables that were very good for a beginner. It only really changed when people didn't agree with him.

He believes people were offensive and disrespectful to him, and that is why he turned on them.

For the prosecution:

He made a table featuring JLPs cat who sadly died, which included unpleasant meowing sounds I'm led to believe.

He made a table featuring pictures of the planes hitting the twin towers.

He made a table featuring Kinsey's avatar together with various Nazi images.

Here are some of the things he has said recently (pasted as typed, the spelling is all his)

To Destruk:

"I've shown disrespect to those that have done the same to me....including you motherfucker. Take the Bowler and shove it up your fucking ass. I go through the trouble of making a video and taking pictures of a fucking bowling machine for nothing but to waste my time. FUCK YOU!"

To Kinsey:

Kinsey, put the dildo down for a few seconds and pay attention. Got a clean bed pan too I hope. Good....Here's a table for you babe:

followed by :

Antichrist bitch.

To TiltJLP:

"I'll have better images the cat when it's finished as I have someone able to take that picture and make it look as if their eating it (the cat).
You what to see a hip-o-crit?! I'll show you one. You shouldn't have compaired me to my work. So, then you disagree with the Homelessness
table so you and your buds make wise-cracks about it and I'm not to get pissed off?! Whatever! As I said: I'll show you how ugly I can be.

And no, I don't get choked up over a cat. Tie two of them together by their tails and throw them over a clothes line as for as I care."

"I haven't done anything to be sorry about"

I'm sure a lot of you have been following this little soap opera as it has developed. It's now got to a point where something should be done. But what exactly? Here's your chance to be the jury. Everyone can have their say and their vote. Me, I'm staying out of it. I just hope that you all think I've presented the case in a fair manner.

 

[Shockman]

Without the first line starting with a lie, I would still find this tacky. Why were you wondering about this? Ron knows what I think about recent events, does he know what you think? What's wrong with those that care, or those that care to to address Ron on their own? Why a poll? I think that is a bit abusive in it's self, whether he deserved it or not.

 

[bob]

Ron's Ok, he's just a little fucked up.

 

[Shockman]

Who isn't?

 

[bob]

no one on this forum :D

 

[Pop Bumper Pete]

I am not voting in this poll
I find this poll to be in bad taste
(no pun intended)

 

[highrise]

Well guys, I wasn't being entirely serious you know... you could tell that from the title surely... what can I say...

"it was not my intention to cause offence"

I was just being a little provocative. I mean, if he can make tables with people avatars on them and think that's ok, I'm sure he won't mind me making this poll. Besides, I just thought people would like to see how the whole thing has panned out, and to remind people that when he first started he seemed to be a nice guy, so I don't know what happened. I mean, he HAS been pretty rude to people. I guess we'll see from the poll what people think.

As for the first part being a lie, well, I wouldn't call it a lie, at least not an intentional one. I was TRYING to be objective. I think I did give him a reasonable defence, and the three options are also pretty fair ones. Maybe I should start a poll on that as well :)

 

[highrise]

can I just say that I don't have any personal truck with Ron at all. He's never attacked me personally, and I have never meant to offend him either. So I do think I'm being fairly objective. Sure, we've had an ongoing debate about his 911 table but that for the most part has remained civil, and I hope it will continue to. We might not have agreed, but we've always been respectful to each other. I hope this poll isn't taken in the wrong way, as I said, it wasn't my intention to offend, in fact, I thought I would give everyone who wants to defend him a chance to have their say, because the other threads have descended into abuse.

 

[highrise]

Just to add. I haven't voted in this poll either, I would like to remain objective as I said. And I really hope this thread doesn't turn all abusive like the other ones. I might have to add my avatar though, in case Ron wants to make a table out of it.

 

[highrise]

sorry to keep posting, I forgot to say one thing. A lot of people may have a view on this, but don't wish to express it publicly for fear of abuse. This way they can make their view known anonymously.

 

[Shockman]

It's not right, and 5 more posts is not going to make it right. Right now I'd say there is Ron, but there is you too.

This don't belong here. Not even the Junk Yard. It serves none of the things you think it does. You say you have no problem with him yourself, but now you do. Wait till he sees this. I think he was wrong but when he comes down on you I will have to take his side. Not because it is his side, but because he will be right, at least about you. I hope it takes the heat off of Phoenixx and tiltjlp though.

 

[Shockman]

I am not voting in this poll
I find this poll to be in bad taste
(no pun intended)

None taken.

 

[highrise]

but seriously, what exactly have I said that is so offensive? I have just asked a question, and given people a chance to have their say, that's all. Please, if you want to have a go, at least present some evidence - I challenge you to find one thing in anything I have said in this thread that actually attacks him. If you do, I give you my word it was unintentional and I will apologise for it. But I don't think you will. I've actually defended him in many respects. Besides, if you can jump to his defence for all the things he has said, saying he has a right to say them, why shouldn't I have that right as well? Don't you want to defend my right to express an opinion (which I haven't in this thread anyway, other than to say something should be done). Or do those rules only apply if you are a friend of the person?

Tell you what, why don't you run a poll on me and the things I've said. Be my guest. I'd be glad to submit to the voice of public opinion in a democratic style. I'm not afraid to see what people think. If people think I should be kicked out, I'll bow to the wishes of the majority, that is only fair. Be my guest.

 

[Pop Bumper Pete]

Highrise, I find most polls/threads that single out one member offensive
Unless you are singling out that person for praise, then that person is going to feel victimised

There are at least 2 threads on this forum addressed to me (personally, not counting the ones addressed to the VPF staff), and I must say, I do not like either of them


plus, I fell that those who would vote against Ron, and not state their reasons why, to be cowards

 

[Shockman]

Kicked out? Good grief.

You are wrong, that's all.

 

[Shockman]

STFU Peter.

 

[Shockman]

He should be banned? You Fucker Highrise. This should be put in the junkyard and you given a warning. I did not read it till that just caught my eye. Take this down man. Just edit the post and the poll should be gone.

 

[highrise]

Well, I'm sorry you take offence, but this debate was here long before I got involved. I think people single themselves out through their behaviour. Perhaps in making this poll I have singled myself out, but as I said, give me an example of anything I have said against Ron in this thread. I have not said anything, nor set out to cause offence. I have simply asked the question, what do people think? I can't be responsible for the answer the community gives back, that's the democratic process.

Insulting people personally on forums is wrong, and I'm sorry you have been abused in this way. As Charles Caleb Colton once said, there are two ways to establish a reputation - through the praise of honest men, or through the abuse of rogues. I will never use personal abuse to win an argument, and because of this it can do me no harm, and in fact will only reflect badly on the abuser, not on me. You should remember that next time someone insults you, because in truth they are insulting themselves. Like I said, if anyone wants to run a poll on me, or insult me, I will welcome it, because I am ready to face the public and offensive behaviour will only reflect back.

I do not believe that people voting anonymously makes them cowards (unlike sending abusive PMs, which I will happily publish if I get any). Every democratic process in the world allows people to vote confidentially. It allows them to express their view without fear of abuse or intimidation, and is the accepted way of showing true public opinion.

Remember, the poll has three choices, not one. People can give Ron their support quite freely. There may be those that support Ron but do not wish to make themselves known for fear of what people would think.

I'm not judging anyone, I'll go along with whatever the result says. If the community votes in favour of Ron, he will have my backing 100% to say and do whatever he pleases. I'll be the first to congratulate him.

 

[Shockman]

Point out something you did wrong? What you need a link to this thread man? It not your place to collect data on peoples opinion on Ron, simple as that. You look stupid doing this, and you are anything but. It's wrong.

 

[highrise]

well, actually, I asked you to point out something that I said that was wrong, not something I did. For example, if I had used the term 'you fucker', that, would have been abusive of me, and wrong.

As for it being wrong for me to start this poll, that is your opinion and I respect that. Much like Ron's tables, you don't have to take part if you don't like it. I don't think there's anything wrong with asking questions to see what people think, they don't have to answer if they don't want to, I'm not forcing anyone to take part.

The phrase 'he should be banned' is an option in the poll. It does not necessarily reflect my view. The options also say 'he has done nothing wrong'. This too, does not necessarily reflect my view. The options in the poll do not express my opinion. That would be impossible, since they are contradictory to one another.

As I said, if you are able to find anything specific I have written that is in any way abusive, insensitive, rude, or unfair please point it out, and if this is the case, I will consider closing the poll, and of course I will apologise. But I won't apologise for asking people what they think, because this is a forum. A forum is a medium of open discussion or voicing of ideas or opinions. Therefore, if I want people's general opinions, a forum is the place to ask. I thank you for yours.

 

[Shockman]

What you say can not be wrong, and I would be the very last one here to say it was. What you do matters. If all you did was make this poll, then fine. That is something you did, not said though. It's a loaded poll though, as most are, people who are good at that can make much money. The one that says he was wrong and the others were not says ban him. I hope I'm just bringing this up and not telling you something you did not know, but this is not right. You have a right, sure.

Abusive? Yes.
insensitive, rude? who cares? those are personal qualities and emotions, and actions.
Unfair? Yes. In court it is a leading question. Outside court it is a leading question. Were you drinking THAT night?

You don't owe anyone an apology. It is obvious that you had no ill intent, it isn't even that big of a deal. I don't like consenses being formed about peoples personal crossroads. He is going to have to live with his next actions or inactions.

Edit the damn thing if you want to keep it. Take that banning part out of it.

how about this highrise (in your own words ofcourse)

he's good
he's normal
he's bad
ban him

how many people do you think would vote to ban him over he is bad. One? two maybe, if you.. never mind. No they would vote he is bad much more. Your poll is

He's good
He's normal
He's Bad, he should be banned.

It's crooked if it's not a mistake.

 

[Shockman]

"I will never use personal abuse to win an argument, and because of this it can do me no harm, and in fact will only reflect badly on the abuser, not on me. You should remember that next time someone insults you, because in truth they are insulting themselves"

You remember when Ron reads this:)

 

[StevOz]

"I will never use personal abuse to win an argument, and because of this it can do me no harm, and in fact will only reflect badly on the abuser, not on me. You should remember that next time someone insults you, because in truth they are insulting themselves"

, say no more.......I doubt it....

 

[highrise]

actually, if you read the poll properly, you will see that the options in terms of actions to be taken are:

1) Nothing should be done.
2) Both sides should apologise
3) He should be banned if he doesn't apologise.

It clearly states three actions that should be taken for people to choose from. The first is 'nothing'. It's the first word, and the first choice in the poll. The first thing people read is the choice that "NOTHING" should be done. The second is that both sides should say sorry to each other. The third is that he should be banned - but ONLY if he doesn't apologise. It's not a witch hunt. There is no option to just ban him, he just has to take responsibility for the things he has said and say sorry. It is clear from the voting so far that there are people who think he should be banned if he doesn't apologise, so in fact it would make the poll imbalanced to remove this choice.

So, just to be clear. I think these choices are fair. Two out of the three options defend Ron to some degree, and the one that doesn't only says a ban should happen if he doesn't back down and say sorry. If people feel strongly enough, they can choose 'do nothing'. Many administrators would have simply banned Ron for the level of abuse and profanity he has hurled without hearing what everyone else thinks. This way they get to see what the community, the people that use this site, think is acceptable before making such a decision. But that decision is still up to the admin, not me, and not the poll.

I have to say that the use of phrases like 'Antichrist Bitch' and 'Motherfucker' have a far greater impact on the way the vote is going than any 'loading' of the questions.

As for never using personal abuse, I stand by that. Ron, Shockman or anyone else is welcome to hurl as much abuse at me as they like if they think it will help win the argument. If I get any PM's to this effect, I'll publish those as well.

 

[kristian]

Ron's Ok, he's just a little fucked up.

At first I thought Ron was interesting... you know... like some kind of guinea pig of human stupidity. Poor Ron started out in life with nothing and he's still got 3/4 left...

But I guess he's more like a case study of "mind over matter"... you know... I don't mind and he doesn't matter... so I decided to ignore him.

PS: Excellent poll.