Trayvon Martin

[sleepy]

At the risk of being misunderstood, I am thinking about this.
The media is overflowing with talk of injustice and prejudice, and maybe that is a good way to prevent the foolishness from repeating again and again.

I've read the reports and what I note is that Trayvon Martin was describing George Zimmerman while on the phone to his friend as a "crazy ass cracker".
And then a scuffle broke out when Trayvon was asked "What are you doing here?". I read this as asking a stranger in the neighborhood, and not the matter of accosting a black man with paranoid suspicions. There had been robberies in the neighborhood and Zimmerman was on Neighborhood Watch.

So I am wondering about the scuffle occurring after being asked, "what are you doing here?". Did Trayvon start the fight after being asked? Was George threatening to hold him until the police showed up? If it were me, I would know that I am only visiting a friend in the area; that I do not live there, and that Zimmerman is talking like a guard or a cop, not like a stalker.
Stalkers don't ask "what are you doing here?".

Realizing that I am a guest in what amounts to a private neighborhood and that I am probably being approached by a local person, well dang me, I would have answered with, "Gee Mister, I am visiting a friend.", and with all due courtesy as a guest. And then I would ask, "Is there something going on?". At any rate, I would not have engaged in a physical fight.

Did Trayvon Martin start a fight with George Zimmerman?

 

[Coil_Smoke]

....GRIM....

I was waiting for this topic was to show up. I guess we all have some strong feelings about this case. I suppose we will never know what the story really was. I am sure the press is using this tragedy to advance some f'd up agenda. I lament the path chosen by our government that has lead us down this path to poverty, violence and desperation. I hope some of U.S. remember a "kinder gentler nation".{God Did I Really Quote George H.W. Bush?} Now our police see us as the enemy. They have been driven insane by enforcing laws that show no respect for freedom. In America respect (For The Law And Each Other) is supposed to be superior to fear. "Too Many People...Too Many Problems...And Not Much Love To Go Around" ...Genesis

 

[LeeVanCleef]

What it amounts to is that there never should have been a confrontation at all. That crazy ass cracker was told by a 911 dispatcher not to leave his car and follow Martin. So, in answer to your question, Arne, no. Trayvon Martin did not start a fight. Crazy ass cracker did the moment he decided to ignore the authorities and try to be a big-shot

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

oh, wow... really wanna broach this subject here, sleeps?

i've been researching this incident the last couple days, debating it with people on another board. as a fellow half-peruvian i feel some stake in this.

maybe not worth the potential of breaking friendships over, i'm thinking... i don't know.

 

[sleepy]

I am very disappointed at how some folks are quick to dismiss the reasons behind the Neighborhood Watch, that there were burglaries being committed.
I also am disappointed in the idea that, when being approached by a local neighbor, that you take flight or otherwise behave in an evasive manner. That would look suspicious to me, and I have encountered similar behavior by gang members who, after Midnight, were casing my neighbor's cars. They did the turn and walk and answered no questions about it.

I see no breach in pondering the reasons why Trayvon did not engage Zimmerman in a discussion about what was going on in the neighborhood. In my apartment parking lot I am often stopped by the security cops who do not know me and I then explain that I do live here and my address and ask if everything is alright. I've never had a problem with them, though race was never a potential issue. It should never be the issue.

I am not accusing Trayvon, but it does seem like he had a reason for not calling 9-1-1 himself, as if he wanted to avoid the police for whatever reason. I would have called 9-1-1 if I thought I was being harassed by a stalker, especially if I am staying in the area. He had time to do that, but chose to return and confront with aggression instead.

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

wow, okay.

 

[sleepy]

I'm not dissing the shooting. It shouldn't have happened.
But I have to wonder how many people would tolerate having their nose broken and being punched out for whatever unknown reasons, and how the cops once again failed the people.

 

[mrschultz]

I am very disappointed at how some folks are quick to dismiss the reasons behind the Neighborhood Watch, that there were burglaries being committed.

The guy on watch was not there to play vigilante cop, he called 911, they told him not to confront the guy, he did anyway. He should have stayed in his car and if he witness a crime call 911 again. Instead he confronted someone and because of a fucked up law got away with manslaughter. How insane is the law that if you confront someone and at any time during the event you feel scared it's OK to shoot and kill an unarmed person?

It appears that same law doesn't apply to warning shots, a black woman was sent to jail for firing a warning shot to scare off her abusive husband. Apparently if she actually shot him she would have been able to use the law as a defense.

 

[Coil_Smoke]

Stand Your Ground?

The guy on watch was not there to play vigilante cop, he called 911, they told him not to confront the guy, he did anyway. He should have stayed in his car and if he witness a crime call 911 again. Instead he confronted someone and because of a fucked up law got away with manslaughter. How insane is the law that if you confront someone and at any time during the event you feel scared it's OK to shoot and kill an unarmed person?

It appears that same law doesn't apply to warning shots, a black woman was sent to jail for firing a warning shot to scare off her abusive husband. Apparently if she actually shot him she would have been able to use the law as a defense.

The "Stand Your ground" Law/Defense was never involved or invoked in this trial. Why the media is blabing on about it is beyond me.

 

[sleepy]

The cops needed to be there to deal with it.

 

[sleepy]

And the media is cashing it in for attention and profits.

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

sleepy, question-- how much have you researched this case?

 

[mrschultz]

The cops needed to be there to deal with it.

Deal with what? A kid walking through a neighborhood?

If the guy on watch had done what he was supposed to do, "watch", there would have been no need for the cops that night.

 

[StevOz]

I concur the hand gun was legal and the only intended use for a hand gun is to kill another human at close range, thus the result.

 

[sleepy]

Only a little reading. That Trayvon thought he was being stalked, but then he also did not discuss the matter with Zimmerman, nor did he go home when he had the time to do so and call 9-1-1 about the stalker. And that the fight ensued shortly after he returned and was asked, "what are you doing here?".

That question can be provocative depending on the attitude exhibited by Zimmerman.

I may be misinformed, but other people who are avid defenders of the victim claim that he was skilled as a street fighter with a history of marijuana use. I wonder if he was high at the time, so he had to avoid the police? And if he was a street fighter, then what was that about?

 

[StevOz]

street fighter with a history of marijuana use

Eh, like, WTF? I have yo yo skills does that count?

 

[sleepy]

http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/26/justice/florida-zimmerman-defense/index.html

Other items taken from Martin's phone included text-message discussions of drugs and pictures of a gun and marijuana plants.

 

[StevOz]

Ooo..er drugs can kill I suppose, marijuana not so much, actually not at all from all toxicity reports..and the lethal means the victim was going to use was?

Think about it, it's a kill or be killed situation whenever a hand gun is drawn, if the other guy doesn't have a gun drawn/confirmed/at the ready then there is only one at fault and it's not the guy without the gun.

 

[sleepy]

But Trayvon was high and couldn't afford to talk to Zimmerman or the cops.
I think pot carries a 5 year sentence in Florida, and that goes higher with a cultivation conviction. That is, if he was growing it back at home which becomes an issue on search after an arrest for use.

 

[StevOz]

But Trayvon was high and couldn't afford to talk to Zimmerman or the cops.

What you have to pay a fee these days just to talk? Wait a sec, what about the right to remain silent?

5 years, really? You know better then me that this is not the average sentence or even likely.

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

jesus... trayvon was not high at the time. he had smoked a couple days before apparently.

recommend you do more research on this, sleepy. your conclusions right now are pretty far out IMO.

 

[LeeVanCleef]

Sleepy, it's no secret to say that, in urban areas, hell, even in comparative backwaters like Wichita, KS., African Americans are rather slow to call 911 or get involved with police. Trayvon was not a nice little white boy who grew up with McGruff the Crime Dog telling him from second grade on to call 911 when he was in trouble. I can't count how many times when I worked for the WPD that I'd be helping an officer fill out a report over the phone of some guy who was stabbed or shot by an "unknown suspect". I'd question this, and the officer would say that the victim said he'd take care of it himself. 911 is a Joke isn't just a rap song in the black community... it's a way of life.

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

dunno if we should keep this thread going. maybe so... maybe not... but i actually *am* interested in someone improving my understanding of the event such that i could flip my support back to the half-peruvian guy who effectively claims the incident was unavoidable.

sorry about earlier, sleepy... what i’m annoyed with is not those who have a different POV, but those who seem to be jumping to conclusions based on incomplete understanding. which of course we’re all in the same boat on, making me a hypocrite of sorts. :) but given that inherent disadvantage, as with pretty much everything in life, gotta proceed with caution and reason, i think.

i can sketch out my current understanding of the event, if that helps. cheers.

 

[faralos]

it's not just blacks who don't dial 911
I did once to report a warehouse fire and was actually put on hold!
so I tend not to dial that number either
relying on my local police forces number instead!

 

[JonPurpleHaze]

I was watching the Travon Martin network, (CNN and HLN, formerly the Jody Arias networks) and must note that these things happen in this country much too often and are largely ignored.

Reefer Madness? I get passive and used to get paranoid when smoking pot, (maybe some munchies) never aggressive.

I do think that the jury had their hands tied, two people know what happened and one of them is dead. Stand your Ground laws are defense laws on steroids, especially in stupid states that allow concealed guns to be carried. The trial was about stand your ground (defense, in Fla.) even if some folks don't think it was, the trial was about race even if some folks think it wasn't, the trial was about guns, even if some folks think it wasn't.

I'd go and hide Ike, half-peruvian might be a imagined crime in some states.


I do think that Zimmercracker could not have been found guilty but also believe he probably committed murder.