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Trigon xse

shiva

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* repost *

Trigon Redraw

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01-28-2016, 05:47 AM
shiva
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Trigon Redraw

To help celebrate the new site upgrade, and look, I decided to finally after 11 1/2 years overhaul the graphics for Trigon. This is a complete redraw, with a far sharper look and featuring new graphics as well as some "old" ones. The original was released Christmas 2004, and well, even after all these years, people still play it to death.

This will be using the traditional silkscreen method from the arcades, about 12 colors and black and white. The master file is done in Photoshop, 8192 by 4096, so it's a very long process to draw. At the moment, just the initial raw playfield is being worked on, the plastics and other layers plus small scale graphics have yet to be done. Because of the scale, and changes to the main lines (width of the lanes, like the cavern has been widen) this is still considered in it's early stage, but nearly all the main art for the pf has been placed in (more to go in as well) with ornaments, cutouts, text and lens art still to be added.

There will also be two layers of plastics, a new apron, backglass, a wack load of decals and transparent plastics effects (if I can remember how I did them of course, it has been 7 years now after all) all at high res, so it will be a long time before it is all done.

Due to the changed graphics, a new layout will have to be done more than likely for vp 9.x with as much compatibility for older versions of vp as possible, and made more up to date with later techniques. I'm very rusty, but I'm sure I will be able to get it done. There will be NO script changes as that could double the amount of time, which I no longer have.

This is the latest as it sits in photoshop and it is very much a WIP, and subject to severe changes. Several things still needed to be redrawn or replaced, the bottom rocks and the center piece for the multiplier for one, as well as more intricate line work. I will update this thread as time goes on. The screenshot attached is at 2048 by 1024, a quarter scale from the master. I will probably include a 50% scale with the release for those of you that have higher res screens in their cabinet.

Since this is a new forum with a lot of changes, click on the thumbnail to view, click to view it in a separate tab to view full size.

01-28-2016, 09:13 AM
sleepy

Way back in the Dogfood days, we used a copy/paste trick from a photo editor to MS Paint. We made the transparency in the photo editor that had that capability, copied it, then pasted it in MS Paint
without fixing / setting the Paste to the MS Paint canvas area. Then go straight to Save As, and MS Paint would save it as a .jpg with transparent corruption where the transparent portions were. That doesn't look so hot now...

By VP 6, we used a set color for the transparency. In Visual Pinball > Table > Image Manager > Transparency button we set the color that we wanted for transparency. Every area in the image that has that color then appears as transparent.

By VP9 we had .png images which allow transparency natively, though VP didn't allow transparency directly, except for Ramps with .png images which can be set to Alpha transparency .

In later VP 9 and 10, we have 3D surfaces that can be transparent with images. I think?

01-28-2016, 03:23 PM
Ike Savage

nifty. i haven't played that table for a long long time, but am curious to try it out again.

02-02-2016, 04:57 AM
Scorpion1948

Hello Shiva,
your pinball is a masterpiece.....very happy you adjourn this
Thanks ans greetings
Scorpion

02-02-2016, 09:38 PM
Itchigo

Quote:
Originally Posted by shiva View Post
There will be NO script changes as that could double the amount of time, which I no longer have.
Thank you! That means we can just swap out the table for cabinet users, and keep the same files.

02-03-2016, 05:16 AM
ruby651

This is pretty super news! Looking forward to taking her out for a spin again!

02-03-2016, 05:30 AM
shiva

Quote:
Originally Posted by Itchigo View Post
Thank you! That means we can just swap out the table for cabinet users, and keep the same files.
err, oops. :)
Afraid after looking at the script, and then the table build itself, I decided to do some changes within the script. Trigon has no flashing GI or lit pf lighting for one (now it does) and the script itself was very easy to modify for the various changes.
One of the things about the way I wrote it was the hit and lighting code was very flexible and written to be as easy to change as possible. It's very basic scripting, just a lot of it, but not very complex. Everytime I try and change other peoples scripts, especially the high end coders, it's a lot harder because their script was designed to be "perfect" code wise, so it is a lot harder to modify if you want something else.

Hence, adding pf lighting and a better overall lighting effect was very simple, since most of the script was tied into two subroutines to switch the plastic lights on and off. I divided the table into 20 sections, so it should be a better light show, in fact it worked right out of the box. Only thing is to set it up for lightsync, which... I have a idea... :)

That's the problem with me, I just like to experiment and work out new things. I'm doing this with 9.9.2, and with the new features with VP, it's something I will try and exploit to the fullest.

Several things bugged me as well. The lightSync routines got badly out of sync. I suspect the original code was wrong with the timing, as the code was matched to the time of the sounds, and over the years as the devs messed with VP, they may have changed that lightsync code within VP. Same with the displays, just hate them now.

Turned out to be a full redo after all. Even the graphics have been changed, and the general layout. Just correcting things, but I am sure it will be for the better. (I hope so)
The plan is to get the table back playable and working 100%, release it, and then update the script with a couple new things and fixes. It will be a single script, to prevent interference with the old versions. For cabs, so far the object names will be the same, so maybe people can use the new table with the old scripts or simple modifications. The new additions I'm "hiding" them a bit so they shouldn't be visible if you use the old script.

Jon has mentioned he may switch off the site to try and get attachments back, so this thread may disappear. I am working on the script right now, and starting to build the table section by section. The first section is the left slings, lots of new ideas there, which I am using as a template for the rest of the build and script. Next week, I will make a video and show it off, even with placeholder graphics. The playfield graphic won't be worked on till the left sling section is done.

Very early though, a lot of things are just roughly set up quickly and put in place for modification later.

Reposting the previous thread lost when the forum was reset today.

Nothing new to say. It's at the stage where I am experimenting with the table, seeing what the new stuff VP can do and how to take advantage of it. Since it's been 7 years, lots to learn. The biggest time waster is trying to find the information on what things are and how to do them (Amazing how there are very little instructions, having to go through reams of posts and threads just to find one bit of important information is truly asinine) and then once I finally find what I am looking for I spend the next couple days working on. Usually I end up creating something new and totally unexpected. "There is no such thing as mistakes, just happy little accidents."

As usual I find some of the limitations of VP to be damn right annoying, especially graphics on models, which are pretty badly implemented in VP9. I hated how graphics looked either way too bright or way too dark on models, and very washed out. After a bit of experimentation, I discovered that sphere mapping a object doesn't sphere map it at all, just mangles the texture because of the way it's drawing both the side and the top. I looked at a lot of other examples, apparently everyone appears to have just given up and settled for washed out grey images and mismatched tops of those objects instead of sharper metal textures. Good thing I am stubborn, I worked it out myself. Very time consuming, getting the colors/brightness/blends right. Of course, I could just do a texture map, but that would be too easy wouldn't it? :)

Be one of the new things as well. If I am going to do something, then I try and do it the best I can, no matter how long it takes. I have 3 new things planned, 2 are working (though basic) the third is a idea that triggered in me. Trigon was a important part of my life, it was a very bad time for me, and the game allowed me to get through it. It shows even to this day, but the new version I fully intend to make 10 times better. I want peoples jaw to drop as soon as they first play it, and I think it's time to bring back the old creativity that people like me, eala, stein and others once did. We pushed a ancient piece of software into doing things no one ever thought of doing, and now we have a new version, it's time to do the same.

After I finally settle on the small scale graphics, get what I have scripted in fully, the main image will be adjusted and then continued to be added too. I didn't like the lines of the image, how the ball will flow up and down based on the angles set by the wood, so some basic modifications will be needed. As mentioned before, I divided the table into 20 sections, and will do one section at a time for building/scripting/graphics etc instead of doing one thing for weeks then another then another.

Included the first screenshot, and the second was posted here of the pf image. I expect the next image posted may be a couple weeks because most of my time will be spent on getting the script changes done, finishing the first section (the left sling) and spending vast amounts of time working things out for myself. Kind of fun when you think about it...
NEW VIDEO! https://youtu.be/bxibnNu1oUc
 

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Last edited:

Itchigo

Former Operator
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Here's my modified scripts for 2 screens. Anything with Controller.b2s is a backglass command. I don't know if I can get into this like before because I started a new job. (Actually I finished my first week). I'm not kidding. I've actually gone from working with a bunch of illegals to working with heads of companies- in one week.... Never would've called that.:whistle:
 

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shiva

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Here's my modified scripts for 2 screens. Anything with Controller.b2s is a backglass command. I don't know if I can get into this like before because I started a new job. (Actually I finished my first week). I'm not kidding. I've actually gone from working with a bunch of illegals to working with heads of companies- in one week.... Never would've called that.:whistle:

Sorry Tim, I have no cabinet or whatever, so get nothing but errors. Just decided to use and rebuild the old scripts, I would more than likely break your code anyway.

This version is desktop mode, which I would guess 96% of the people have anyway.

I settled on VP9.9.2, which seems to work so far. VPX once again the devs broke the script, apparently they decided to change the scripting commands and broke pretty much every table before that. I wish they would just bloody well settle on things, without making everyone have to do new versions with each release. I saw somewhere that they were talking that 10.1 may break 10.0 tables. Why even bother with vp10 if that is what keeps happening? Bad enough with VP9, so I decided to just stick with the latest version and hope they stop fucking around with it and break more things.

Just a lot of grunt work, getting small scale images to display, some setup code for the new pf effects, and of course spending all the time trying to find examples so I know what the code is. Just starting the flippers now, but having problems finding information on how to get primitive flippers to work. sigh I guess nothing ever changes, I will just figure it out myself. :)

Looking good so far though, even with test images and the new effects. After the flippers, time to correct some things, and see if I can remember some tricks from 8 years ago, like defeating the strong shade on Walls etc so it doesn't blow out the textures.

Then make the changes to the pf image, start adding and redrawing the area for the left sling, so I have a base and a template for the rest of it.

So much for a minor graphic update...

Anyway
 

shiva

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Well, I suppose I should show people what I have been talking about with the playfield effects. Multiple object lighting set to the playfield bulbs.

Very basic, some stuff not in, or test graphics. Look very closely at the completed area the left sling. Just 2 stages, everything done has a light on and light off state, even the acorns. I may do fading lights (if I can figure out a simple way to shoehorn them in the script) and it would be nice to do that with the object lighting as well.There's also a new lens flare effect as well. Rubbers are next, then the flippers and the kick out metal.

As you can tell, it's a bit rough at the moment. :)
 

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Itchigo

Former Operator
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Sorry Tim, I have no cabinet or whatever, so get nothing but errors. Just decided to use and rebuild the old scripts, I would more than likely break your code anyway.
Anyway

I really didn't write anything, so much as insert my lines into your subs. (that sounds dirty lol).

But that's fine, I'll figure it out.

I hate swimming lol.:whistle:

If you wanted, what you could do is:

Where I have my commands, do a "If FS=1 Then".
All lines having to do with the backglass start with: Controller.b2s

Then they I use whatever variable you are using.
 

shiva

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The "I'm so anal" post

Well, been a while for a update, very busy on other things in life, and time to make a few choices on where I wanted to go with this. My solution? \Throw out large amounts of the artwork and redo them completely.

There was nothing wrong with what was there before, it just didn't fit what I wanted for the overall character of the game. I wanted all the parts of the game to fit and work together under one theme, and I decided with the minor changes to the layout (more on that one later) and a more intense gameplay, the art just didn't cut out.

If people don't know, Trigon is DC comics version of the devil in a ways, so I decided with the added intensity to match that theme a bit better. I never was happy with some aspects of the first version with that, with the voices it sort of ended up as a B grade movie villain and not something that fit the horror theme I wanted.

There are two screenshots here, the first is the playfield art (with a few things not visible as I haven't decided if that is what I want). The art will look far more "hand drawn" than before, with a lot more detail with the ornamental art, sort of like Paragon and other Bally games. The big problem is I am not Paul Ferris.

I'm not a natural artist, I drew the sword from scratch, but ehh... Just do the best you can do is all. You also may notice there are some changes to the lines, and a couple changed shots. Because the scale was different, the shot lines changed, and I wanted to even up the lane widths, and correct a few things that I felt were the weaker aspects. The overall scale with lane widths and objects are now pretty close to actual Bally scale.

I included a second screenshot, of the editor. It's pretty much how I set the design up, I use lights to space my lanes and objects and it usually ends up pretty accurate. The lines are my ball flow, but they are not for when the ball goes up from the flipper, they are where the ball goes going down. (A lot of people forget that one)

The cavern was changed a bit with the line. I noticed when the ball comes down, it hits the wall and loses a bit of speed going down, so it should pick up more speed going downwards now. The escape lane as well was changed, before it played among the slings a bit, and gave the player a "break" while this time, it will hit the tip of the left flipper squarely. The game will be far more relentless, the 4 areas from the first game that gave the player that break will be changed to increase the intensity and the pressure on the player, so with the increased flow, a more open layout, and a couple new nasty shots that are designed to increase the tension to the player, it should be a far more intense game.

Speaking of nasty shots, there is a change to the timed left loop there. Instead of exiting at the escape, it now travels down further (at higher speeds as well) and exits right at the right flipper. This sets up a nice combo shot, but also makes the player think about his strategy, as it is a higher risk higher reward shot now. The other change isn't shown, but it's the kickback. hated it as it was just a little weak, even though it's pretty stock for arcade games, so I decided it needed changing and be more challenging and visual. I have a idea... :)

Wow, what a long post. anyway, will continue to brush up on my art skills, get a few things in there, then a period where I build the table roughly to check my lines and start shaping game play the way I want it.
 

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Itchigo

Former Operator
Site Supporters
Wow, PN let's me STAY logged in!:appl:
I hope you'll have a backglass with this at a later point for us FS users...:whistle:

BTW I wanted to say again thanks to Shiva and Jon for all their efforts in saving the site!:shark:
 

shiva

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I can't get used to drawing with a mouse. What is your technique?

set the toolbar to one pixel pencil in photoshop,move the mouse one pixel at a time and click. :)

I have a gamer mouse that gives me the fine control, after a while you get use to it. I also use the lasso and pencil tool a lot, plus some odds and ends. Nothing really much to it, just patience and find a good day where my hand is steady enough. That sword I redid several parts a few times, mainly because I am not a artist at all, so I just worked on it till it looked close enough to what I wanted.

The one thing about art and VP, though my master image is at 8k, My desktop is at 1050 height on the monitor. That means that when the playfield is viewed in a game, because it's also a slanted view, you only really get about 700-750 lines of resolution to display the entire playfield. Too much detail with lines too close together causes the image to display more blobs instead of detail, and thinner black lines become more grey and indistinguishable if they are too thin. In my master, my lines are 8 pixels wide, and so is my spacing between lines, so they show as solid black lines. I cheat a bit, sometimes the lines are 6 pixels wide. It's the reason this is so slow, images with too much detail come out too messy, so I have to change them and modify the playfield image to get them to display. I've noticed this a lot with VPM games, because the arcade game playfield is a lot larger scale so more detail can be added.

Anyone notice the new background yet? :)
 

sleepy

Pinball Wizard
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If my eyes weren't giving out on me (and if I had an idea!), I have a Scanner, a box of felt pens, and I've thought about just drawing something on paper. Maybe just the lines and outlines. And then scan it in at high res 10 Mb. or better. Convert to .svg and then fill the color and blend or saturate in a Photoshop or GIMP.
A line drawing to .svg would probably work better should you wish to resize it, and .svg is clean up to the original size and resolution of the scan. Then convert to .jpg or .png. .Png files offer transparency.

That way, I could cheat by using rulers, compasses, protractors, art stencils, old cans of beans or boxes or shirt buttons or spools of sewing thread, or tacking a string to a pin and pen for a makeshift compass to trace around on real physical paper with a manual pen or brush for feedback. I see that digital drawing pads are now going for $50. But I would stick to real media.
 

shiva

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I can't even draw stick figures. :)

Just what I am use to, I find I erase a lot more than I draw, if I did that on paper, i would erase so much I would turn the paper into confetti.

I do have a drawing tablet, never use it. I'm hoping one of these days they make a proper tablet with a screen in it just for photoshop etc. Be a lot easier.
 

sleepy

Pinball Wizard
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Oh yeah. They make tablets with screens. But the ones with any usable size go for $1,000 or more. I think there are apps for smartphones, but who wants to go blind fiddling on a 5 inch screen?
 

shiva

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After a very long break due to a serious addition to Stardew valley, I started work again on new (better) graphics, and rebuilt the table using the old version. The game is now playable, though there's a lot of work just fine tuning the physics, as well as a hell of a lot of new scripting.

I took the time off to refocus on what I actually wanted, and rather than show the new artwork, I just instead loaded up my master blueprint, a combination of the VP and FP blueprints, and the wood layers. This is pretty close to the final layout, adjustments will be made as I find design and play errors over the next couple weeks. Once I am satisfied, I will resume the art, and fit it into the overall design.

I went with the Bally style of using shaped plastic as the sides, as opposed to the Williams method of using strips of metal. I liked the detail better, and it opens up the entire game, and makes the pf dynamic lighting really pop. The little colored dots in there are used for the drilled holes for the posts. I still have a lot more to do, like the target cutouts etc, and put in the bulb locations, but that depends of the lighting, and how I place it in the editor before I put it in the graphics.

I took the time to update the design, it has new more modern lines, a bit more curvy, and has some layout changes. The lane spacing is 1 3/4 ball lengths, so I could fit in the extra lane even with a wider table (In case you didn't know, old EM/SS games were 2 ball lengths wide, the modern ones are usually 1 1/2 wide) The game itself has longer play time, but the built in flex system will adjust over time so you will still get the table adjusting to your skill level like before. As mentioned before, the Cavern and escape lane are now reshaped for better speed, and I raised the right target bank and reangled everything based on ball flow and how it plays.

The two big changes are the left loop special shot, which now exits at the flippers instead of the escape lane. This is a far more intense shot, and sets up a combo shot, but also will add even more speed so it becomes a very high risk/high reward shot if your reflexes are slow.

The other change is the kickback has been removed. I always never really liked the Williams style of kickback, because it was such a drain monster. In my tests, the ball drained 7 out of 10 times down the left side, and with the new layout changes, I wanted to take advantage of the extra areas of ball bounce and play. Instead, I am thinking of alternating lights for the drain (depending on the flex system) and the ball uses the plunger system instead, with the top gates "Open" so the ball travels down directly at the tip of the left flipper. Again, a more intense shot, and seems to fit the other shots quite well.

Next 2 weeks, testing, massaging, retesting, corrects, more testing until final layout, then refit the new graphics before I add the ornamental and text. I know I said I would just redraw the art, but even I didn't believe myself when I said that one. :)
 

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shiva

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I thought it was great before, can't wait to see the new version.

So do I. :)

A update, as things stand. I would consider this "barely Alpha" a lot of work needs to be done. Still doing artwork on the PF, no plastics and a lot of graphics to be done, the table is running off the old script fully, and I have placed the objects and am expanding and testing the design as I go along.

The past few weeks though, I am working on the new pf lighting dynamic system as one of the center pieces of the new version. I am very aware of the legacy that the original version has, there were so many new things introduced for it's time, and it wouldn't be right to just throw in new graphics and fix the script, without adding new things.

Even after all these years, we all still end up surprised when some thing new comes along, something that makes all of us say "I never knew VP could do that" even if it's a very simple idea. Even at it's present form, without things like shadows etc, I just have never seen anything like it, I couldn't find a example at least from someone else,even TPA and Pinball FX2 don't do this. It's very heavy, and a shit load of work just working it out, so I expect another month of work on this, and it needs to be done first before anything else is.

It still is in basic form, a lot more can be added, but once I put in as much as I can for this cycle, before I start incorporating it into the script and doing new routines, I will make a video so people will have a real good idea why I am so excited about this. I personally think it's getting almost jaw dropping as it is.

Of course, I will probably change the entire thing 3 or 4 times over the next little while as well, I am the one doing it after all. :p

Once that is in, then here's my roadmap, pretty much in the order I will be doing it:

1. script work and fix all the timing issues and other things due to all the changes within VP. Incorporate the new lighting system and add a crap load of new effects
2. Continue work on the pf art, set the lens locations
3. custom light lens system
4. custom physics system
5. Finish the pf with ornaments and text, add more lighting and shadows to lighting system
6. Finish the small scale graphics
7. Start the plastics artwork
8. Replace the text based display system with a better one
9. New audio work
10. Add a menu system
11. change and expand the rules
12. add some more stuff, anything else I think of while doing the table.

I may get 3 or 4 of the list done by the end of the year, and hope to release a Alpha by the end of the year "as it stands". Anyone who knows the original knows it is the most complex table there is, and how much of a bitch it really is to work with. I expect the script will increase by about 25% by the time I am done, and of course the rest of it has been rebuilt completely. It's a lot more than I thought, but you know what? It's still such a labor of love to me as the original.

Hopefully a month or so to show a video.
 

shiva

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There's more than one way to skin a cat

And here we go...

The very first video is now up and running, featuring the work as it stands right now. This table is roughly 50% complete, a lot of things are missing, or needs to be worked on (like plastics, new lens system etc)

The video shows the attract mode, is running the original script, and is fully playable. It also shows the FPS counter, so you can see the amount of stress that is on the cpu, especially during the "extreme" rapidly blinking portions.

The recording software takes a large amount of the FPS, the actual average FPS on a i core 7 with 8 gigs and GTX960 is 525 FPS with a 25 - 40 fps drop when everything is flashing rapidly. Please note that there is still a lot of optimization yet to be done for both the table objects and modification of the script to reduce the load. The more I save, the more I can use later on... ;)

This table is completely rebuilt with new layout and graphics, and is running under the old script.

The dynamic systems are switchable On and Off, and also adjustable with the light intensity. This is roughly medium settings.

Here is the roadmap for the rest of the build pretty much in the order I will be doing it:

1. script work and fix all the timing issues and other things due to all the changes within VP.
2. Continue work on the pf art, set the lens locations
3. custom light lens system
4. custom physics system
5. Finish the pf with remaining artwork, line work, ornaments and text, add more lighting and shadows to lighting system
6. Finish the small scale graphics
7. plastics artwork
8. Replace the text based display system with a better one
9. New audio work
10. Add a menu system
11. change and expand the rules
12. add some more stuff, anything else I think of while doing the table.

sorry, forgot to turn the sound back on... :)

You can view the video right here:
https://youtu.be/bxibnNu1oUc

Also included is the raw/unlit playfield art, also at 50% completion. As you can tell, a lot has changed since the last time I showed it, but I never could leave anything alone. :)
 

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shiva

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Wait till the good stuff is in. :)
Once the rest of it is put in at this stage, and the pf graphic has it's own light sourcing and effects to match, should look amazing. I really hope people don't have epileptic fits after I am done with this.
 

shiva

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Well, there are some people I do kind of hope do, but that's water under the bridge. :)
Managed to get more fps, over 600 average now, which is good as as the old Alice Cooper song said "I have other uses for you darling"
be a while for the next update, looking at the script, and cringing at it, so time to spend the time and simplify it a bit before I get to into it with changes.
 
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