VPF.org members

[Shockman]

When you are there, ask Noah, if he is still pissed off at me.

 

[Shockman]

For those wondering. This ban was only a misunderstanding. Noah thought I was doing something that I wasn't. He was understandingly very upset, thinking I was doing it though.
There are some underlying things though, and I guess we have fallen back onto those. I guess I will have to keep some of my opinions to myself.
I'm sure when he cools off things will be OK.
In the mean time I have other things that require my attention.

 

[Rick2007]

Hey Shockey,,, There are over 25,000 persons that have
registered at VPF.org. Only one person has been banned.
IS that one person YOU!!!!??????

Please just be the helpful pinball code wizard that you are
and ignore all of the other CRAP.

Rick..................

 

[Shockman]

I wouldn't know how many were banned. I know there is at least one other though. I would like to hear his side of the story now.
I try to be as helpful as I can, but I don't know this new VP like I knew the old one. It is pretty much undocumented, or the documentation is not fully public.
I should have ignored the 16/9 poll, that's for sure.
I would not do what I am accused of though. Not there. Not to him.

 

[sleepy]

I'd have to think that if you are still banned, then he's still not agreeable.
What was it that happened?

 

[Shockman]

He and I was editing my post at the same time. I edited it a few times for correction and addition. Submitting a number of times then editing it again. I was accused of editing it after he did just to replace his edits, 3 times, when in fact I never touched those words. Funny thing is my next edit was going to be to edit the same thing he did.

The truth is neither knew the other was editing it at the same time. At least I had no idea he was, and of course we were both working with our own copy of the text so one post of it from either of us would overwrite the other's.

I assume because his focus was on one word and I had no focus on it at all at the time that he noticed his changes being replaced and I did not.

The edit was due to an exchange between a member and myself where I was called a non contributer, and told to fuck off, and I called that member an asshole, (which is just as true and to the point, as me being a non contributer), when I gave my un-personal opinion of some of VP's newest problems.

Most of these things were done before Noah's dev. team even got a hold of the program, let alone decided to work on it, I know that and they know I know that.

Anyway the other member was Uncle Willy, a partner in crime with Noah, so the shadow is cast in the opposite direction than one would expect.

Noah does agrees that we were both editing the post at the same time and that I would have no way of knowing he had edited the post because I left it open. I don't even think he blames me, but oh was he pissed. Pissed enough to think I should be punished for it, at least for a little while, (he suggests a month), even if there was nothing phecious on my part because he did edit it 2 or 3 times.

This is not a quirk. It will happen 100% of the time that two people are editing the same post at the same time. But it is rare, though understandable.

 

[Shockman]

I have to take some of that back.

It appears he can still not understand how this could happen, or he just doesn't care, or he is leaving it up to others.

He says UW got a warning, and that's fine. I don't care if he didn't. But a warning is what I got too. That turned into something else, then into a ban and I could do nothing about it, because I had no way of noticing that he was trying to edit that post. Something that is impossible with an open file.

Just the fact that I did not do it, and the fact that he understands that should bring discussion. If Noah is fine with banning me for something I did not do, and refuses to discuss it, but instead demands at least 30 days, instead of a absolute ban, then that is his policy. To not require a reason to ban someone. And I agree, he needs no reason if that is his policy.

 

[Shockman]

It's permanent now, he tells me.

Partly because I reported on it here, partly because I was relentless in trying to get him to understand that yes, I edited my post, but I did not edit my post after he edited it replacing his edit on purpose.

The communication broke down to I did 'do it', today it is up to 4 times somehow. But to him 'did do it' means I edited the post with his edits included, to undo them, and my 'did do it' means I edited my post a number of times and after submitted it, edited it again. At no time was there a edit message from Noah, which are large, colored messages that could not be missed. I'm not saying he did not. He surly did, but with his cashed version, and me with the text I was using.

Form his point of view, his edits were being reverted to before he edited them. Once or twice, and it could have been more, if the timing is right. And they were. I have never denied that. I'm just saying it was consequence of the post still being open on my computer. This is his area of expertise, and I would expect him to understand.

From my point of view, I get a popup PM that says I have a warning and when I go to read the PM on the PM page there is another, and it says that it had happened again. When I write that I am not doing it and try to submit that it is intercepted by a message that I have no privilege to post PMs and in exiting notice that I am banned. I don't remember all my edits but do remember changing an is is to a is it, and adding a paragraph. That post was open quite a while.

This is an unfortunate happenstance and nothing more. I certainly don't care if words are edited out of my post and I would not replace them if they were. The edits I did make did overwrite them because they were there, not because I replaced them.

The fact that there was nothing phecious in the disappearance of his edits. Meaningless.
The fact that what UW responded to was not personal. Meaningless.
The fact that his attack was. Meaningless.
My explanation. Meaningless, and useless.
The fact that I told him I would not do that. Useless.
The fact that I told him I would no longer repeat my opinions that are unpopular with some. Useless.

My ban is meaningless. Perhaps it is useful.

I just edited this post 3 times. I did not refresh between any. If Jon even deleted the whole thing, it would be back when I clicked save. If he deleted it again and I did not do a refresh, but edited it again it would be back.
The only alternate explanation is that someone with access edited it back in, and I admit that that was the first thought that entered my mind, but when I thought of the other explanation that thought was gone. It was resisting that thought that made me understand the only other way it could have happened.

What Noah is saying is the absolute truth.
What I am telling you is the absolute truth.

I understand this, and to me it is resolved. At least the mystery of it, and conflict is explained. There was no vicious will here.

 

[sleepy]

Sounds like the good ol' Bally vs. Williams days!
Gomez vs. Ritchie.
Pac Man Vs. ???

 

[Shockman]

I think it sounds more like
The Caine Mutiny Court-Martial
Except there was no mutiny.

 

[Rick2007]

Hey Shockey
I still laugh when I recall the time You told Peter
to stick an ice cream cone up his ***
Here I go again,,,, I can't stop laughing...

Rick

 

[Shockman]

It was meant to be funny. Pete didn't have a very good sense of humor. He was a great straight man though, he set that up well.
I miss the Post man though.
Something has reminded me of him lately.

I'm sure Noah will come begging me to come back after his site goes to pot. Remember what happened when .com banned me for good. They did not last a month. Paul's site is better stuff though, but I still would not give it more than 40 years before it falls to the same fate without me. A VPF without Shockman brings up images of all the members running through a meadow in togas picking flowers and even exchanging them with each other. Makes me want to puke.

 

[Itchigo]

Sounds like the good ol' Bally vs. Williams days!
Gomez vs. Ritchie.
Pac Man Vs. ???

Pac Man Vs Defender of course, Defender was the game that knocked Pac Man off the number 1 status.

 

[Shockman]

Oh come on!

Don't post in this thread without telling me you understand my point,

or telling me to Fuck off.

 

[Itchigo]

Sorry, I can understand what you're saying but I'm too new here to really understand what happened besides I've got it too good at both sites to want to mess it up. My join date isn't idicative of my knowledge (I was barely computer literate when I joined) so I couldn't say anything intelligent on the ball through the flipper thing I've read about.

 

[Shockman]

Fine. I was expecting a Page full of Fuck Offs by now anyway.

I hope it is not generally thought that this has anything to do with the Ball and flipper issue.

It has only to do with me being called a non contributer and told to fuck off.

 

[sleepy]

The "being called a non-contributor" part is a crock of shit, though that does remind me.
Something about songs borrowed/ripped by certain well-known groups and Southridge dissing you-know-who for trying to grab 'unwarranted attention'.

It ain't exactly right to do that if and when you don't know the background to the story,
and it definitely ain't right when some folks in the pinball industry also know the story to be true. Unfortunately, there is nothing I can do but to blow a fuse every now and then, or yield against my Rights. I always yield in favor of my Rights instead.

But yes Shockman, I do think calling you a non-contributor is out of line and is merely a ploy to put you off. The shame of it is when others who don't know your story then believe it.

 

[Shockman]

The shame of it is when others who don't know your story then believe it.

Exactly. And when it is said by someone that does, in order to make those that don't know believe it, it is nearly unforgivable. That's why I don't think I over reacted at all, and hate this ban. Even those that know better would have me not be able to defend that. There have been lesser posts than that deleted by the staff, and yet that remains.

Of course straightening this out would be better for me, but it would be better for VPF too.

 

[rascal]

Hi Phil,

I did not even realize that you were banned again until just the other day. However, it came as no surprise, and I'm sure that you were not surprised either. I don't even have to know why, it's kind of just a given by now. Shockman's back, Shockman's banned, it’s just cyclical as the world keeps turning. I also knew that I would find a thread on PN from Shockman where he is the victim of a world (forum community) turned against him. There was a technical glitch this time huh? Odd that you were editing the same post as Noah, yet not editing the thing that was most offensive to him, I guess. The odds of that happening is astronomical I would think. I mean what are the odds that Noah would even be in most members post editing offensive stuff? Almost nil...<O</O
<O</O

So a world without Shockman would be a world of flower picking/sharing people. Damn! I wish my real world looked something like that. It doesn't, it's full of drama, but then maybe that's why I like to escape to a pleasant flower picking/sharing pinball site whenever I can.<O</O
<O</O

There is no doubt that you are a smart man Shockman. I really believe that you could and have been a constructive member to this scene. The problem is, that you also play a little game of "Lets fuck with people’s heads"... am I right? Do you bore easily, is that the problem? Or are you really a victim of cyclical banning that no mere mortal could possibly explain or even imagine? If it is just boredom, maybe you could try pulling wings off flies or something, force them to walk. Better still, wings off bees because they help flowers reproduce and you obviously don’t like flowers.<O</O
<O</O

Yeah, I know, I have a staff title over there, but just ask Bob, Noah, or anybody that knows me there, I don’t really do anything. So don’t take this as a staff attack or that I’m out to get you, please. It’s just me and my observations put down in words. Be gentle in your reply, I have enough drama in real life right now. I mean please don’t knock the virtual daisies out of my hands, I picked them myself and they give me great joy.<O</O
<O</O

I don't want to tell you to fuck off, but I do fail to see your point. If you weren't playing the go for warnings game in the first place, you wouldn't be where you are at now... banned. It seems pointless to me. What do you have against flowers anyway?

 

[Shockman]

The picture my be appealing, but it is not life, and not reality.

I did not know you were on staff there. How come you do nothing?

I disagree about the odds of this happening. And it is much better than any possible alternative. At the Visual Pinball Forums the alternative happened. It has nothing to do with odds though. Noah indeed was in other's members' posts editing them that very day. There is nothing wrong with that.

But this has nothing to do with the post edit, even though the post is what got me banned. The reason I would say something as confusing as that is because it is true. I was editing that post, and I was going to include the same edit that Noah did, but for other reasons. To me the reason was to clean up the board, but to Noah it was more. It was to take sides, and defend his friend. What's wrong with that? Nothing. If you have read what I have typed, instead of just respond to me being banned again, I think you would understand that that is my point. Nothing so bad happened on either side that anyone should be banished.

What caused the words that was edited was characterized as UW 'going off on me' by Noah. But I did not say anything that was personal, or even included him. When someone going off on someone else by saying something that is both untrue and rude is not as bad as the response he is going to get, then something is not right.

I was warned for my part. And without argument, fighting, or explanation, it turned into a ban.

The forums are two things. It is conversation and record. The record is made by conversation, not the other way around. The record is not a record of the conversation, or no one, including Noah would be editing posts.



Now on a personal note to you rascal. I like you. I really do. I think you are creative and your thinking is not boxed. However, that falls through the floor when I am involved.

A victim of the world? I never said that. I am part of the world, so the world is a victim of me. It is a benefactor as well.

A technical glitch? Yes, that is exactly how I would describe what Paul perceived as me fighting him. It's not common, nor astronomical. It is a fact.

A world turned against me? I don't think so, but would be willing to hear your side.

Odd that we were both editing the same post? Odd or even, what's the odds? Irrelevant I think. Futile is what it is. A fact is what it is.

Fuck with people's heads? Who's head? I don't understand. Where were these heads?

I don't bore easily, or I would not have interest in something like VP that saw no improvement in it's program for a decade, and work to improve it from the outside like so many others that share the same hobby. And the hobby should be the only thing this is about. I have had some of the nastiest runnings with other members of the community, and I have never suggested, even to them, let alone the Admins. that that person does not belong. That is what the flower statement is about, and I'm sorry it offended you. Even if you think those people in the meadow are the best people, you have to realize that they are not the only people. I am here to try to shape Visual Pinball into more than is Visual on the surface, not to shape other people, or myself.

I'm sorry you can not see my point, but I fail to see yours here. You are basing everything you say on things that are beside the point, and much that just did not happen. The point is that I did not fight Noah, on the edit, the warning, or anything.

My contributions are not for you or anyone else to evaluate and place on a scale. And they are not for the most part obsolete, but standard, or built up from. The Authors of today are building better looking tables, and in some cases building better playing tables. But if we had the physics settings they do and the graphics capability they do, there would not be the visible difference there is.

People can disagree that a bigger ball is a bad thing if they want, but in doing so, they are saying that a perfect size ball is not an important thing. Here. Who am I attacking? It's not a who. It's a what. Who's head am I fucking with? What case is there for saying I am disruptive. What is it that I am getting in the way of?

Take care rascal. Keep up the good work.

 

[rascal]

First, thanks for the soft spanking. That barely stung at all. By the way is the “falling through the floor comment” a backhanded insult about me not being as bright as you maybe or is it that my coding skills fall by the wayside compared to your awesomeness? Sorry you lost me there. Words are a hurdle for me sometimes, and I’m not very book smart. Sometimes being Dyslexic can be a curse, and sometimes it is a blessing. It’s a blessing in that you don’t take what is written as fact, you tend to think outside the box, and you learn that just because a person is educated in the form of words and books… well that don’t mean a hill of beans. Also, you learn to read people at face value rather than by the degree they hold or the words they speak. It can be a curse in that people underestimate your intelligence and think they have the right to threat you as if you are inferior.

I like you too Shocky, I have nothing against you personally, unless of course you think you’re smarter than me… then we would have a problem. Do you think that it might be possible that you talk down to people at times? Maybe push your ideas just a little too hard even? Or maybe people might disagree with you and not want a battle of wits. Whose head do you fuck with? Depends on who you’re talking down to I guess. For some reason people end up just wanting to say Fuck Off to you. Maybe they are flustered by your dazzling wit (or in my case don’t understand it half the time), or maybe they end up just thinking you’re an ass. Whatever it is, it rubs people the wrong way, hence you get banned. So maybe you can dummy it up a little for us not so bright folk.

<O</OIt really wouldn’t hurt if you humbled yourself a little bit, went with the flow sometimes, talked to people as you would like to be talked to, and worked your ideas into the community slowly, with respect, and sincerity.

<O</OAgain, this is just my observations put into words. Take it or leave it.

<O</OOh, I don’t do anything as staff because I choose not to do anything as staff. Maybe Paul thinks I have something intelligent to say sometimes… nah, that can’t be it. I expect someday Paul will ask, “Hey what the fuck do I need you hanging round for?” at which point I can say, “You don’t”. I like being on staff and not doing anything, it pisses Bob off.

<O</OTake care, Shockman

 

[Shockman]

Fall through the floor. That was your thinking outside the box. Same with many others. Independent thinking, which you are capable of, but don't seem to do when you are talking about me.

For example,

-It came as no surprise. Which means you must have saw something that was worthy of a banishment. Normally, I believe that you would elaborate if this was so.
-I'm sure that you were not surprised either. That would mean not only you know what I was thinking, but also that I do not. Normally, I don't think you would say such a thing. The warning did not surprise me. My ban did so surprised me.
-I don't even have to know why. No perhaps not, but don't you think it would be better than speculation? Do you even have to speculate?
-The rest of the first paragraph, where you basically accuse me of lying. I know what happened, and Paul knows what happened. We have discussed it and I am not guessing.
For it to have come down like he first thought, we have both come to realize would have taken much more time. His edit would have to gone through a refresh, or that post would have had to been closed be me. And that is just for it to have happened once. It happened 4 times and there is only one explanation. We would have to have been working closely together, in sync, with a plan, to pull it off.

That last point would piss anyone off, because it shows that you at least for one will believe something either just because Paul said it, or someone said it against me. That is not independent thinking.

Not only did I not edit my post with the intent of overriding his edit, as I am banned for, but I did nothing to fight Paul in any form this case.

The fact that some people now believe that I did makes the lie unforgivable. It begun as a simple mistake, but it has now risen to a lie and slander. I can post a few messages that prove that Paul does not believe this, and probably will, but for some reason it is important to him that others to believe it. It's not important to me that you believe me. Just that you have the opportunity to know the truth. I think it may be that he thinks it would show a weakness on his part to admit that he made a mistake, but that is not so.

In fact my ban is no longer for the editing of any post, and I have a message that says just that. Now it's just like what the VPF.com staff used as an excuse when I would post proof I did not do something. It's for 'general stuff, Shockman'. Which is no explanation at all.

VPF.com made an enemy of me, and now so has VPF.org.

 

[Shockman]

If history repeats itself I am about to get an e-mail saying "I was just about to lift your ban, but..."

 

[TheMcD]

Meh. I suppose if history repeats itself, you'll get unbanned in a while. It always happens.

The McD

 

[Shockman]

Yeah. Any day now.