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Weak flippers in SLAMT1LT tables

flipponzio

Pinball Player
Hello everybody. I have a problem with almost all SLAMT1LT version tables (with FP Physics Adjustment). Flippers are much weaker than they should be. Ball shots aren't powerful enough. I don't have this problem with all the other tables (for example in the ones with ZED Physics the flippers have the correct strength). Do I need to change some settings?
 
Solution
Hello everybody. I have a problem with almost all SLAMT1LT version tables (with FP Physics Adjustment). Flippers are much weaker than they should be. Ball shots aren't powerful enough. I don't have this problem with all the other tables (for example in the ones with ZED Physics the flippers have the correct strength). Do I need to change some settings?

All his older tables (that are not Ultimate Pro) will play incorrectly (with a proper FP install) as they were meant to be used with a hacked version of the FP exe (before the days of BAM) that used specific physics settings. This will result in the flippers and other things playing incorrectly.

The solution, is to be sure you are using BAM to play the table, and then copy a...

GeorgeH

Flippered Out
Site Supporters
To my thinking, the flippers are ok on Slam's tables but you can adjust the flipper strength. Open the script and search for:

const MaxOmega

You can increase strength by increasing the omega on the line of code above and on the next line.
 

TerryRed

Pinball Master
Hello everybody. I have a problem with almost all SLAMT1LT version tables (with FP Physics Adjustment). Flippers are much weaker than they should be. Ball shots aren't powerful enough. I don't have this problem with all the other tables (for example in the ones with ZED Physics the flippers have the correct strength). Do I need to change some settings?

All his older tables (that are not Ultimate Pro) will play incorrectly (with a proper FP install) as they were meant to be used with a hacked version of the FP exe (before the days of BAM) that used specific physics settings. This will result in the flippers and other things playing incorrectly.

The solution, is to be sure you are using BAM to play the table, and then copy a physics xml file (from the BAM / XML folder) to where the table is, and name it the same as the table file. Most likely the fp-p2.6 or fp-p2.7 xml will be needed for SLAM's older tables.
 
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Solution

flipponzio

Pinball Player
All his older tables (that are not Ultimate Pro) will play incorrectly (with a proper FP install) as they were meant to be used with a hacked version of the FP exe (before the days of BAM) that used specific physics settings. This will result in the flippers and other things playing incorrectly.

The solution, is to be sure you are using BAM to play the table, and then copy a physics xml file (from the BAM / XML folder) to where the table is, and name it the same as the table file. Most likely the fp-p2.6 or fp-p2.7 xml will be needed for SLAM's older tables.
Yes, exactly the Ultimate Pro versions work great. The flippers problem is with FP Physics versions 2.7 2.6 etc. I setup Future Pinball and BAM thanks to your pdf guide and Youtube video. I downloaded the table packs you indicated, but the Ultimate version tables don't have the original name so I don't understand which version of Physics they use and the xml file I have to use. Do I have to search in the script? Can you tell me how and also where can I find the xml for 2.7 and 2.6 versions?
 

TerryRed

Pinball Master
Yes, exactly the Ultimate Pro versions work great. The flippers problem is with FP Physics versions 2.7 2.6 etc. I setup Future Pinball and BAM thanks to your pdf guide and Youtube video. I downloaded the table packs you indicated, but the Ultimate version tables don't have the original name so I don't understand which version of Physics they use and the xml file I have to use. Do I have to search in the script? Can you tell me how and also where can I find the xml for 2.7 and 2.6 versions?

The xml files are in the BAM \ XML folder.

There is no certain way to know which xml you need to use, as the table authors didn't always specify this. Sometimes its mentioned in the table filename, the DMD, the script.... but not always.

You basically just try each one until you find one that works best for the table.

I would try using the xmls in order until you get one working how you like:

fp-p2.7.xml
fp-p2.6 xml
fp-p2.5 xml
 

flipponzio

Pinball Player
The xml files are in the BAM \ XML folder.

There is no certain way to know which xml you need to use, as the table authors didn't always specify this. Sometimes its mentioned in the table filename, the DMD, the script.... but not always.

You basically just try each one until you find one that works best for the table.

I would try using the xmls in order until you get one working how you like:

fp-p2.7.xml
fp-p2.6 xml
fp-p2.5 xml
Perfect. Thanks again. Please write it clearly in a possible next update of your precious guide. For a novice like me it is not very immediate and could suggest that something has been done wrong in the settings. For example, I thought that BAM was able to recognize the physics of the table and automatically associate and load the correct xml file.
 

TerryRed

Pinball Master
Perfect. Thanks again. Please write it clearly in a possible next update of your precious guide. For a novice like me it is not very immediate and could suggest that something has been done wrong in the settings. For example, I thought that BAM was able to recognize the physics of the table and automatically associate and load the correct xml file.

I couldn't be any more clear and detailed about how it all works, and what you need to do. It's all covered in the Guide. I even included 100's of xml files for various tables for this very reason. If BAM automatically knew what to use for every table... why would I create those?

That said, I do need to replace the link for adding new Dynamic physics, as now I have the ALL in One Example table for adding FizX physics to a table now... which does have FP tables playing like VPX now :)

1673047951045.png

1673047990053.png
 

GeorgeH

Flippered Out
Site Supporters
All of the ULTIMATE tables that he posted on his web site used physics 2.7. There are earlier ULTIMATE tables that he posted on PinSimDB. On those, he posted in the description what version of physics to use. Although PinSimDB has been deleted, all the tables were transferred here:


Some folks, like myself and Terry, have posted updates to Slam's tables and you can find those here as well.
 

AnonTet

Pinball Master
Site Supporters
I never noticed a relation between a table physics and gold, ultra, vip descriptions. If you don't have an .xml file with the table OR the XML inside the script just call future pinball.exe and use default FP phsyics.

But the easliest version I recall playing ( version from Slamt1lt directly that is ) was Ultimate or later Ultimate PRO so I might be wrong.
 

GeorgeH

Flippered Out
Site Supporters
Thank you. Which physics xml file should be associated with the "Ultra", "Gold" and "VIP" edition tables?

All I know is the VIP came first, then Gold, Ultra, Ultimate, and then Ultimate Pro. With each name, he started numbering all over again so Ultimate 1.03 would come before Ultimate Pro 1.01. Like Anon says, check the script and any info files that are used. You should also check the Table info screen.

You might find some clues in a few of the files. I remember finding an FP executable in at least one of the table downloads because it is where I got an executable that I posted here:


I would assume if you find an FP.exe for a version of physics then others in the same time frame would use the same physics. You may end up just trying several and picking the one you like the best as Terry said.
 

flipponzio

Pinball Player
I never noticed a relation between a table physics and gold, ultra, vip descriptions. If you don't have an .xml file with the table OR the XML inside the script just call future pinball.exe and use default FP phsyics.

But the easliest version I recall playing ( version from Slamt1lt directly that is ) was Ultimate or later Ultimate PRO so I might be wrong.
A beginner question... How can I check if the xml file has been included in the script?
 

HorsePin

Pinball Wizard
I couldn't be any more clear and detailed about how it all works, and what you need to do. It's all covered in the Guide. I even included 100's of xml files for various tables for this very reason. If BAM automatically knew what to use for every table... why would I create those?

That said, I do need to replace the link for adding new Dynamic physics, as now I have the ALL in One Example table for adding FizX physics to a table now... which does have FP tables playing like VPX now :)

View attachment 35369

View attachment 35370
"which does have FP tables playing like VPX now :)"

:rasta:
 

GeorgeH

Flippered Out
Site Supporters
"which does have FP tables playing like VPX now :)"

:rasta:

Tables that have FizX are very close to performing like VPX. Slam does not have any tables that use FizX so none do. Try playing some of Terry's tables or my version of Avatar which is an update of one of Slam's tables. In fact, someone left a comment not long ago on another site that Avatar plays about the same as the VPX version.
 

HorsePin

Pinball Wizard
In fact, someone left a comment not long ago on another site that Avatar plays about the same as the VPX version.
Play the same as VPX avatar? Doubt it, but maybe, I wouldn't know because I really dislike the movie and the real machine. But you compare apples to apples again.....

Instead of always trying to be better than, or on par with, simulator X or Y, just say, we've improved the physics. There's no need to lie about it and say it's as good as something else, then use some random internet comment to prove your point.

Compare it to a real game if you have one, or a video of a real machine, watch the ball, watch your flippers, reference the two. The ball in FP is dead.
 

HorsePin

Pinball Wizard
You are the one who asked for FP tables playing like VPX. I answered the question. I am not interested in rhetoric about whether you like simulated tables. If you don't like simulated tables, play real ones.
It's not really about what I like or my opinion it's about this bold face lie that FP plays like VPX because it doesn't.

You and Terry don't agree anyway as he said it's the same and you said it's close.
 

TerryRed

Pinball Master
It's not really about what I like or my opinion it's about this bold face lie that FP plays like VPX because it doesn't.

You and Terry don't agree anyway as he said it's the same and you said it's close.

I will only comment on what I said. It's my opinion, and mine alone. You also took it a bit too literally.

Playing "like" VPX is not a false statement. I didn't say "the exact same" as VPX.

How VPX plays varies... alot. There is no VPX plays like X, and that's all there is to it, and all VPX tables will play the same as X. You have plane jane VPX physics out of the box.... you have JP's physics... you have various other people's preferences... and you have nFozzy physics (which you didn't even know what nFozzy even was).... and nFozzy has been the preference of most who create / mod / update VPX tables lately.

nFozzy is more than just adjusting some VPX settings. You copy / paste new physics code, and it requires the entire table to be adjusted and tuned for it. You add new replacements for rubbers, slings, drop targets, etc that allow for more control of how the ball reacts / scatter bounce, etc to work with the new physics code.

FizX physics on FP uses similar code and techniques as nFozzy physics. This is not the old days old just changing the physics xml (which is what "this" topic was about) or using a hacked FP exe, or the older "Dynamic Physics". You need to do similar to updating a VPX table for nFozzy physics. You need to update the entire table / replace rubber / drop targets / slings, add new physics code, etc.

While testing FizX and adding it to Sonic, I had multiple VP creators test it. They each saw how much of a difference it was and loved how it played. Many people were surprised by it. You ask multiple VP table creators how a table "should" play, and they all will give you a different opinion.

Playing "like" VPX is not a false statement. (it was more a correction on how out of date the older Dynamic Physics guide info was). The changes in flippers / slings / rubbers etc are much closer to nFozzy and at least on par with a standard VPX table. This is not just me saying this, as many others feel the same way. "How" that plays is up to whoever adds / tunes the physics, and how they update the table. What I prefer won't be the same as what others want... so I don't consider how I tune a table as the DeFacto standard for "absolute realism" compared to real table... which I don't own any.

I have always maintained that VPX still plays better and that FP's jankiness can still creep in there at times with how the ball acts. I said before... I know you better and I don't try to convert.... only inform.

If you are here to defend how virtual tables should play compared to a real table.... then do so on the VPX topics with those guys... as I'm sure they would be more interested in debating that. They certainly do enough of that with each other and don't always agree either... and you would get a better debate there then on a FP topic.

I have no interest in some lame VPX vs FP physics war. So if that is where this is going... don't bother trying to defend the honor of VPX. No one needs to (it's great and I love it).... and I don't need to defend FizX on FP, as 1000's of others are loving it as well.
 
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HorsePin

Pinball Wizard
"You also took it a bit too literally."

Nothing literal about it Tel. You said, "which does have FP tables playing like VPX now :)" . Which isn't true, simple as that.

Physics wars? I don't care about that if it even exists or even if people play FP for that matter, I am calling out the snake oil now, it's not the first time, but it is better than it was then.

What is this NFozzy stuff anyway? It's like you need to understand, as I have mentioned it before that I just do default out of the box when I use VP and tweak to my liking and what feels right to a machine of a certain era or whatever, that's it and I never get any of them perfect anyway, so I hope you understand after that I could care less which one is better but within my rights to say it doesn't play like it.
 
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