what happened to VPforum?

[wangho]

well I dont know anything about the time lapse between the two sites and Im not sure what one is to gain from keeping the name. How long after the original site went down did the new one go up? Are you AJ?

 

[bob]

perhaps the name was kept so that people who did visit the original site could easily find the newer site if they had left the scene for awhile and may be coming back? To continue the tradition?

I agree with it was done without the intentions of upsetting anyone, except maybe AJ, but it was still not a good idea to name it the same. I remember when Noah PM'd me at VPF and informed me of his new site and that he hoped I would be on staff there and I declined for various reasons.

I would still like to reiterate that the only blemish is the site name, this is no conspiracy, no business enterprise, no hostile take over, no theft of property, etc, etc. Just a stupid name decision and now a stubborn stance taken by Noah to not change it, when it would be a simple task to do so.

With that said, I would like to give some further insight on this so called community. The community is full of armchair quarterbacks or Monday morning quarterbacks or coaches. This means people are full of advice and suggestions and rehashing, but when comes right down to getting dirty or taking responsibility or becoming the coach or quarterback, there have only been a handful of these guys to step up to the plate and actually do something constructive. Noah is obviously a doer and a take control type of person, so there will be a few decisions that may not be to everyone's liking, but that is the consequences of being on the sidelines and not actually running the show.

Some early doers were shiva, AJ, Destruk, Apoc, Black, Jon, Leo Wanker and now it's starting to get harder to name these guys as it is really a short list, but one thing you'll find with most of those guys is they perservered no matter what the hell you threw at them and I mean a lot of shit has been thrown at those guys.

I guess the bottom line is.... If you don't like it the way it is, then do it yourself. The flip side of this is if you do, do it yourself, then expect to have shit thrown at you. All of these guys have handled their individual shitfests in different ways and it is interesting to be a part of all of this, but I continue to be a role player and let the coaches and quarterbacks do their thing....

Whistle blows!!!!!!

Red flags given out.

Halftime's over!

Whistle blows!

Take your seats or your positions, or whatever the hell it is that we all do....

Popcorn! Peanuts! Ice cold beer here!

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

I agree with it was done without the intentions of upsetting anyone, except maybe AJ, but it was still not a good idea to name it the same. I remember when Noah PM'd me at VPF and informed me of his new site and that he hoped I would be on staff there and I declined for various reasons.

I would still like to reiterate that the only blemish is the site name, this is no conspiracy, no business enterprise, no hostile take over, no theft of property, etc, etc. Just a stupid name decision and now a stubborn stance taken by Noah to not change it, when it would be a simple task to do so.

With that said, I would like to give some further insight on this so called community. The community is full of armchair quarterbacks or Monday morning quarterbacks or coaches. This means people are full of advice and suggestions and rehashing, but when comes right down to getting dirty or taking responsibility or becoming the coach or quarterback, there have only been a handful of these guys to step up to the plate and actually do something constructive. Noah is obviously a doer and a take control type of person, so there will be a few decisions that may not be to everyone's liking, but that is the consequences of being on the sidelines and not actually running the show.

Some early doers were shiva, AJ, Destruk, Apoc, Black, Jon, Leo Wanker and now it's starting to get harder to name these guys as it is really a short list, but one thing you'll find with most of those guys is they perservered no matter what the hell you threw at them and I mean a lot of shit has been thrown at those guys.

I guess the bottom line is.... If you don't like it the way it is, then do it yourself. The flip side of this is if you do, do it yourself, then expect to have shit thrown at you. All of these guys have handled their individual shitfests in different ways and it is interesting to be a part of all of this, but I continue to be a role player and let the coaches and quarterbacks do their thing....

Whistle blows!!!!!!

Red flags given out.

Halftime's over!

Whistle blows!

Take your seats or your positions, or whatever the hell it is that we all do....

Popcorn! Peanuts! Ice cold beer here!

jon, what button do i push to give ten thanks for that post?

 

[Phoenixx]

Much of what Bob has said about the community is true. But that is only one aspect of it.

Another aspect is that this 'community' is probably the biggest assemblage of hypocrites and people with double-standards in the entire internet. Some of these people do something, and the next minute they damn you for doing the same thing. When something bothers them because it affects them themselves, they cry bloody murder and you get a five-pages lesson on 'respect'. If OTOH they agree with a situation or simply dont care either way, they over-simplify matters and tell you to 'get over it', even if they would have roasted you alive for the same thing under different circumstances. You get the idea.

In other words, the actual point or principle of a matter notwithstanding, what stance is taken by whom, (a very few people excluded), pretty much solely depends on time of day, day of week and probably room-temperature, (i never quite figured that out), and of course whether or not somebody is in some way personally affected by something. Whether or not they like a person who represents a certain stance is probably most important factor number two for what stance they will take. A rational discussion of a point of an issue (or even a simple principle like right and wrong, good or bad) is therefore almost guaranteed to be a futile endeavor, since there are no standards, no principles, no true convictions they go by. Right is simply what they want to be right, and wrong is what they want to be wrong. At that time that is, because a day later they might say the exact opposite in a different matter under different circumstances.

This issue here is a good example. Everyone knows that this is wrong, yet some people prefer to over-simplify the matter so they can be at peace with their conscious. Well, thats O.K. if it works for them, but still there are people for which it doesnt because to them wrong will be wrong on all days of the week. And thats how they will treat the matter. So more over-simplifying stuff will be posted, more wise words spoken. Not realizing that it wont turn a bad thing into a good one. Again, you get the idea.

That is why to engage in this is actually a complete waste of time. But if you stay silent, nobody will hear you. And then nothing will change for sure. Thats why i prefer to speak up, if only to show that not everyone here is prepared to cross every line.

 

[yogiholzer]

Phoenixx, can't you understand and accept, that your rights or wrongs or your lines aren't everyones rights or wrongs or lines? It's just that simple and it's nothing to fight about and it's nothing to blame/insult/affront anyone! It's opinion! Opinion!!! Opinion!!!!!

I'm sure, we all understand your opinion, but we don't all share your opinion. Clear?

And it's absolutely nothing you should threat anyone with anything, whatever it is/you mean!!! That's inacceptable!!!

 

[Phoenixx]

See what i mean? Regarding the basic principle of something?

Prime example right there.

Somebody steals somebody elses forumname, i say this is wrong, they call it 'an opinion'.

How do such people manage to get out of bed without breaking a leg?

Mind blowing,...

 

[yogiholzer]

Adios!

It's absolutely senseless to try to talk to you intelligent! I should have known better. Sorry for the try!

 

[Phoenixx]

See what i mean?

Now im the bad guy that lacks 'intelligence', because i dared to point out that if something is wrong by defnition, its not an opinion.

Isnt it incredible? And the old forum was full of such examples.

Makes you wonder why you bother at all, doesnt it?

 

[yogiholzer]

intelligent=vernünftig

Don't try to misunderstand intentionally! That doesn't work.

 

[Phoenixx]

Now we are in the 'you dont understand what im saying because you dont want to listen' phase.

I could tell you whats next but i dont want to spoil the surprise,...

 

[wangho]

what about VPforums.net?

 

[yogiholzer]

No, we aren't in any talk anymore. Didn't you see the ?

I'm sorry that I felt the need to reply once again, just because of your unqualified reply?

Adios !

 

[Phoenixx]

what about VPforums.net?

They took that domain too, just in case anyone else would get the same idea.

They wanted .com too, but AJ was smart enough not to let it expire. He renewed the registration i think on Jan. 28 or thereabouts,...

 

[Phoenixx]

Oh, by the way, that last reply of our intelligent young friend up there represents the 'im not really talking to you but i had to tell you what i had to say anyway even though you are just a waste of time' phase.

Always good for a laugh or two, but otherwise not very interesting. In a day or two, they will come up with the same crap again and the cycle repeats. A forking into other phases is possible,...

 

[Pop Bumper Pete]

I could tell you whats next but i dont want to spoil the surprise,...

you are really Shockmans brother?

 

[TomcatLeader]

Wow, all this over a site name. I'm glad I have a life beyond pinball. This bullshit is what drives people away from a forum, because the same old shit is re-hashed over and over and over..... Time to put it to rest. Once and for all. Its done, its over. Water under the bridge. Move on. Next subject, please.

 

[bob]

Wow, all this over a site name. I'm glad I have a life beyond pinball. This bullshit is what drives people away from a forum, because the same old shit is re-hashed over and over and over..... Time to put it to rest. Once and for all. Its done, its over. Water under the bridge. Move on. Next subject, please.

Seriously, you just made the 515th post in this thread, either you don't know how to ignore this crap or you really like to read it. :) Or maybe it's like gawking at an ugly baby.... You don't want to do it, but you just have to.

 

[sleepy]

Ugly baby? What about that car accident?

 

[Phoenixx]

Wow, all this over a site name. I'm glad I have a life beyond pinball. This bullshit is what drives people away from a forum, because the same old shit is re-hashed over and over and over..... Time to put it to rest. Once and for all. Its done, its over. Water under the bridge. Move on. Next subject, please.

This one is straight from the 'it doesnt affect me personally so what do i care' department i mentioned.

Now imagine how this same guy would go off if i were to key his car, (all in all a rather minor thing), and instead of paying him the damage i keep telling him to get over it, its just a car, nobody cares.

 

[elton]

This thread will self destruct in 666 replies ...... (hopefully before then)




Ah, the community still lives. An ugly community but a community nevertheless.

 

[wangho]

In what major way does it affect you, Phoenixx? I'm just trying to understand your point of view.

 

[TomcatLeader]

Phoenixx, attacking me will avail you nothing. Let me ask you a LOGICAL question, do you own VPFORUMS.com? No, you don't! It's one thing to defend AJ, you've done that admirably, but it's gotten to the point that you're beating a dead horse. And personally, I'm tired of coming here and seeing this tired assed tirade. You cannot change the fact that VPFORUMS.ORG is here and VPFORUMS.COM is no more. If anyone has any right to be pissed about the sites, it's AJ, not you.

 

[bob]

Ugly baby? What about that car accident?

Car accidents aren't funny.

 

[Phoenixx]

In what major way does it affect you, Phoenixx? I'm just trying to understand your point of view.

I admit, when i read that question i spontanuously thought 'if i have to explain it to you then you probably wont understand it anyway'. But since you asked nicely and polite, i figured theres no reason why i shouldnt reply in the same way. So here goes, i will try to be as clear as my limited english skills allow me to be,...


I am Phoenixx1771, member of VPForums. I came to join there 6 years ago and had almost 9000 posts there by the time it went offline. I think i was number 3 or 4 in the Top5 of most active users. Today i have a total of over 1000 Visual Pinball tables in my collection, and approximately just as many ROMs. About 99% of these tables and ROMs are in my possession today because a man named Angelo J. Russo has provided since 2001 an internet-platform where people from all around the world could not only discuss and develop their own creations with a large input-providing community, but where they could also upload their creations at no cost in order to share them with others and keep the spirit alive. Personally i have gotten many many hours of fun and enjoyment out of this, and there is not a fragment of doubt in my mind that without this forum provided by Angelo J. Russo this whole Visual Pinball thing would have most probably died a slow agonizing death a very very long time ago. That is one reason why i am in Angelo J. Russos debt. I owe that man more than i can ever repay him, because his continued efforts are directly co-responsible for my being able to relive a piece of my youth each and every day.

But there was more to VPForums than that. Aside from providing for many years the No.1 download-central for VPM tables and ROMs, and being for many years the No.1 factor that held everything together, it was also a social gathering-point where people from all around the world could meet to discuss anything from politics to pizza toppings. It was a place where you could turn for help when your computer gave you trouble, when your pet was sick, when you needed tips on new PC hardware, or if you simply needed to let off some steam because you felt bad due to something rotten happening to you in real life. In other words; the place has been there and it was open for everyone and everything. And God knows everyone, including myself, gladly took the opportunity to use it in any way they saw fit.

All Angelo J. Russo ever asked for in return was respect for his efforts. And maybe to donate a litte out of free will if you can. He never put any advertising or other annoyances on VPFs pages, everything was free for everyone, nobody has ever been forced by him to pay for anything. Not even when it came to table hosting. On the contrary, he was the type of guy who removed the five-tables-for-free-per-day download restriction even for as little as a lousy one-dollar-donation. Even though he knew perfectly well that the .60 cents he ultimately got of that dollar after PayPal fees would cover the bandwidth which this person is most like going to cause not even in the most remote way. Instead, if the donations didnt cover the expenses, he payed the bill out of his own pocket. Month after month, year after year. Only to provide this community a home for its hobby.

So all the undeniable shortcomings notwithstanding, Angelo J. Russo was a fine guy and he gave a *FUCKING DAMN LOT* to this community. His providing VPForums has benefitted this community probably more than anything else ever did. And for this we owe him nothing but our *utmost* respect. All of us. But this respect, which is all he ever expected in return for his efforts, is now being denied to him. Not just by one or two people mind you, but by the vast majority of those who so gladly used his services as long as he offered them. And this, quite frankly, makes me sick. The opening of another VPForums without his consent is like spitting him right in the face, because it is desecrating his entire legacy in the most respectless way imaginable. And thats why it affects me. Because i am part of that legacy. Because Angelo J. Russo is a friend of mine and i am there for my friends when they need me. Especially when they stand alone and have no way of defending themselves.


That is as good as i can put it, and that is no doubt the main reason why im so upset. One other reason is that all our contributions may be lost forever now because AJ feels betrayed and simply doesnt bother anymore. And who could blame him? If VPF were my forum and i would see this kind of 'gratitude' expressed towards me when my forum is down for two weeks because the server host fucked up, i might do the same thing. I mean there you pay out of your own pocket for 8 years to give these people a place to communicate, even host their files, and having your forumname stolen is the best you get in return? Boy! This means 8 years worth of contributions, 8 years worth of community history (which pretty much means the entire history) might be lost solely because of the actions of one respectless [removed] and his cronies. All the threads, all the posts, all the tips, tricks, ressources, programming examples, questions that have been answered, you name it, all gone. And for what? For a forum with no history, with no reason to exist at all. And only because one [removed] is prepared to sacrifice all of it just so they can have control over whatever they are conjuring up over there.

There is more but i think you get the point. It affects me because i am part of the community, a community i might add which i too am paying money for each and every month. It affects me because i think i owe AJ more for his efforts than i can ever repay him, and it affects me because this whole thing is simply wrong as wrong can be, which means i would not be doing my best as an adult responsible person if i would just watch it happen, or worse, go along with it.


Gotta go now, will be back later or during the weekend,...

 

[yogiholzer]

Even if you don't believe, because it's me (because I had to notice last, that you, sadly to say, seem to develop terrible aggressions towards me), I can somehow respect your view. Your feelings weren't that clear before at all. Thanks for your final disclosure! I didn't know, that you could be that sentimental.

Please don't want to find anything negative in this/my post once again! There's nothing!