What is up between PN and VPF???

[sleepy]

Wait for the ball to slow down near the top of the playfield,
and then just tap the z or / key repeatedly.
You'll see the ball is wild.

 

[sleepy]

Still no response to my bug post asking about the ActiveX Object destroying the ability to open a saved table that has one.
Somebody must have enabled the ActiveX Object in VP because Randy tried to include it several versions ago and then disabled it. Wouldn't you think they would be concerned about the crashes?
I don't want it disabled again.
It could be fun.

 

[Shockman]

Looks like the ball size problem is solved in the new release comming up, with the sizable ball, and png with alpha transparency has been added for real transparency.
So how's that PN exclusive vp development comming along.

Looks like the vp9 is progressing rather quickly.

As well as a vp player using dx9 in true 3d

That all sounds great. especially the ball sizing and .PNG support.

With ball size, all kinds of unique things could be done, and with true alpha transparency it will look great.

It looks likes my build is working great, as the only reason for it's existence was to light a fire under the VPF devs., and find out the direction and place in it's development.

I will continue to work on a flipperless build (Visual Bagatelle) though, using eventually a good stable build if it gets to that.

If the VPF devs also works on fixing the nudging (for keyboard) then there will be no need for the builds I was thinking there is need for. A flipperless does have need though, so the editor will have nails, cups, holes, etc. and I don't see that EVER happening, regardless of how far VP goes. Transparent color needs to work though, it always has, and there is no reason it should not be now.

Holes would be great though for flippers too.

Though C++ is not completely alien to me, Windows (DX) code is, and that is the bulk of VP's code as far as objects. This meaning that anything significant is beyond me at this point, and it is really not something I would want to devote the time needed to learn it.

Any idea on how close to release this new version of VP is?

 

[Kinsey]

Thanks for the refresher, gentlemen. I see pretty much nothing has changed between sites.

 

[sleepy]

Hi Kinsey. :)

 

[druadic]

Thanks for the refresher, gentlemen. I see pretty much nothing has changed between sites.

No, not really missy. Nice to see you're back again Kinsey. I'm glad I could help (with StevOz help) to get you back to the posting again. Thanks for returning; you and I always got along. Glad I could help a friend

Thanks StevOz for your help! It's so much appreciated! :)

NOTHING has changed. You know what happened to me but that's all water under the bridge now. Otherwise I would have been more than happy to return to VPF just for posting / chatting. Or saying "hello" to the VERY FEW older authors that still exist in VP. I can't get anyone over there to say anything on my behalf to return so, onward and upward ho! My WIP awaits :)

Looks like Pinball Nirvana is my permanent home. Thumbs up!

d

 

[druadic]

That all sounds great. especially the ball sizing and .PNG support.

With ball size, all kinds of unique things could be done, and with true alpha transparency it will look great.

It looks likes my build is working great, as the only reason for it's existence was to light a fire under the VPF devs., and find out the direction and place in it's development.

I will continue to work on a flipperless build (Visual Bagatelle) though, using eventually a good stable build if it gets to that.

If the VPF devs also works on fixing the nudging (for keyboard) then there will be no need for the builds I was thinking there is need for. A flipperless does have need though, so the editor will have nails, cups, holes, etc. and I don't see that EVER happening, regardless of how far VP goes. Transparent color needs to work though, it always has, and there is no reason it should not be now.

Holes would be great though for flippers too.

Though C++ is not completely alien to me, Windows (DX) code is, and that is the bulk of VP's code as far as objects. This meaning that anything significant is beyond me at this point, and it is really not something I would want to devote the time needed to learn it.

Any idea on how close to release this new version of VP is?

Shocky;

Nice to see someone is trying to help the flipperless community via VP. You'll NEVER see VP updated to take advantage of flipperless WIP. NEVER. I've had some serious issues with triggers in VP 910 - down the center of the PF near the bottom, custom triggers will not function. I had to get rid of them and use gates for crying out loud. Of course my WIP doesn't need the stupid triggers anyway :)

As for nudging, this should have been fixed BEFORE VP 910 was released. Of course it is only a "tech beta" so it's excusable. Can't wait to see a REAL VP version like 6 or 8.

It would be nice to have "nails" to place on the PF too. As for transparency I can't get it right either. I can make a nice gate image and it still doesn't look proper. ??????

My biggest issue is the lack of compatability with ALL older VP table releases. Truly, this is inexcusable; it should never happen. What's wrong with all the older releases? Nothing. Until I can see a decent VP release that allows ALL THE PAST VP VERSIONS I cannot recommend VP 910.

Also, you probably won't see anyone upload the new VP over here. Someone will more than likely have to go over to VPF to get it.

d

 

[Shockman]

There is a 9.1 now? I'll have to check it out. I'm banned at VPF go I hope it gets here soon.

I don't even see it. Do you mean 9.01? 9.09 is the latest I know of but has all the problems I mentioned.

VP will never be backward compatible. It has been made very clear that they don't care about VP8 or those that have worked with it and do not embrace VP9. Nor would it be reasonable to expect it at this point. They abandoned VP for UCVP and called it VP9. No one would expect backward compatibility with UCVP, and it has no place in UCVP. UCVP was made for one platform and one platform alone. GlobalVR's video pinball machine. VP9 on the other hand is UCVP so the decision to end development of Randy's last build, the one that gave a choice, for UCVP, the chance of a VP as useful as possible went out the window forever. It could be made to be as usable for keyboards as it is for the niche hardware, but it will never be that and backward compatible. As you know, a bloody shame, and shameful act, as it has nothing in it that would make it have to be non backward compatible. It was a lazy choice that it not be, and never will be.

The best we can hope is that some dev member will add the very few fixes to VP8 that would give it some of the better benefits of UCVP like ball through the flipper fix and graphics upgrades so we would have the VP we were all expecting, and yes promised by UC, though they were expecting the devs (Randy alone at the time), something as I said we were all expecting too. But I don't think even that is going to happen. The powers that be are either all cabinet users, or non competent coders, and could not care any less about anything else, I think.

 

[druadic]

There is a 9.1 now? I'll have to check it out. I'm banned at VPF go I hope it gets here soon.

I don't even see it. Do you mean 9.01? 9.09 is the latest I know of but has all the problems I mentioned.

VP will never be backward compatible. It has been made very clear that they don't care about VP8 or those that have worked with it and do not embrace VP9. Nor would it be reasonable to expect it at this point. They abandoned VP for UCVP and called it VP9. No one would expect backward compatibility with UCVP, and it has no place in UCVP. UCVP was made for one platform and one platform alone. GlobalVR's video pinball machine. VP9 on the other hand is UCVP so the decision to end development of Randy's last build, the one that gave a choice, for UCVP, the chance of a VP as useful as possible went out the window forever. It could be made to be as usable for keyboards as it is for the niche hardware, but it will never be that and backward compatible. As you know, a bloody shame, and shameful act, as it has nothing in it that would make it have to be non backward compatible. It was a lazy choice that it not be, and never will be.

The best we can hope is that some dev member will add the very few fixes to VP8 that would give it some of the better benefits of UCVP like ball through the flipper fix and graphics upgrades so we would have the VP we were all expecting, and yes promised by UC, though they were expecting the devs (Randy alone at the time), something as I said we were all expecting too. But I don't think even that is going to happen. The powers that be are either all cabinet users, or non competent coders, and could not care any less about anything else, I think.

Shocky;

I've uploaded VP 910 to the downloads area here at PN and it's posted in the resources/tutorials area of PN. Just scroll down and find the thread :)

It was a lazy choice to make. Makes me wonder what kind of folks are actually working on VP; Randy or others? I'd much rather have Randy work on it that some other schmuck (there are others that have worked on this and do care). God only knows what will happen. I might to try a front end or something so I can play my older VP tables as I have no desire to redo them all again. That's a bloody waste of time; period.

d

 

[tiltjlp]

I don't have any problem using 8.1 to play older tables, but I would like to see the changes Shockman mentioned added to 8.1, so that those of us not interested in UCVP or cabinets could have all the improvements in a VP version that has the old nudging. To be honest, the only things I like about 9.09 is the ability to copy and keep the same object name, and the exporting of images and sounds. I'm hoping that Phil's BagatelleVP will have those features.

 

[Shockman]

I can't figure much out. I have tried to add a nail, and so far no success, not that it is an absolute necessity.

Before I give up though there is a few things I want to try. Nudge coding in VP source, and mixing up some of the routines from one version to another. If I come up with something, anything, like nudging fixed up, which it looks like I will be able to do, then I might use the latest VP9, otherwise what I am most interested in is building a VP8 that does not have the ball/flipper problem, at least.

It's hard to decide what to do with two versions of VP both with good and bad points.

As much as I love both versions, 8 is a POS when it comes to the bttf problem, and 9 is a POS when it comes to nudging, and setting transparent colors, and of course running the existing games.

 

[sleepy]

What is the difference between a Nail and a Bumper with a radius of 4 or 2 and an Overhang of 2 or 1?
Doesn't it work the same?

 

[druadic]

What is the difference between a Nail and a Bumper with a radius of 4 or 2 and an Overhang of 2 or 1?
Doesn't it work the same?

I currently use bumpers at a radius of 5 and 0 overhang. The kickback is set to 0.5 and they work just fine. If the radius is any smaller it is near impossible to move that bumper where you want it. BUT I would like to be able to drop a wall into the PF and use a decal for the image like a brass brad or nail.

That would make it look even more real I think. As for the nudging, VP 9 sucks - keep hitting the spacebar enough and the balls literally float up and up and up. ??????????? Who implemented this sillyness?

I am using VP 910 for Good Luck and it's working well. So far, so good.

d

 

[sleepy]

Okay, I was just wondering.
As for a Decal, does the Bumper Image work that way, like using an image of a Nail head on the Bumper, or does it distort?

 

[sleepy]

As for a Nail Object, what happens if you modify the Bumper code to create it? Wouldn't that work?

 

[bob]

Bumpers don't cut it for me. I prefer walls for nails.

Better yet, use a nice image and then use the images nails for the nails. :)

 

[Shockman]

I have been working on replacing the flippers, the most useless element (for bagatelle), with a nail. No luck so far though.

The problem with using a bumper is that you end up with a point at the top. If you set the color to black for the top they are short, with no top ( a tube ).

Walls are my favorite thing to use right now.

I have looked at the bumper code too. VP is much more complex than I first thought. It is going to be much more a learning process than a just do it thing for me.

 

[Shockman]

Those look great Bob. Good pictures for these things are few and far between though, arn't they?

 

[tiltjlp]

I used to use tiny bumpers, but Bob convinced me years ago that walls were better, and I agree. As small as those walls are, I'm not sure if an image of a nail, or more likely a brass brad, would be visible. but I'll tinker with the idea and see what I can come up with.

 

[druadic]

Wish I could find some GOLD nails to use for Genco's Good Luck! I can't find any decent ones anywhere. Anyone have some they can send me please? Silver ones would be nice too since I redrew the main doors to be silver instead of gold. They look great.

It would be greatly appreciated since I got GL to score flawless without triggers.

Bumpers work fine for me invisibly and they can still use decals for the nail images. Set the kickback for the bumpers at 0.5 and they work just like a nail!

d

Bob, gorgeous WIP. Love em!

 

[bob]

Bob, gorgeous WIP. Love em!

They aren't WIP, they are old tables I made and you can get the VP8 versions here.

 

[druadic]

I apologize; they are beautiful works for VP Bob. I'm impressed. I wish I could get those bloody nails to come out that nice.

Very nice work indeed Bob. Thank you.

d

 

[Shockman]

Sometimes it's easier to draw for textures that small. Use colors that would go with a nice gold you pick for the top and draw 4 or 5 lines of gold at different shades, lighter at the left if you use the shadows of VP.

Nails are not two small to map a graphic to though in VP, you will want to use the control points to map the texture 3 or 4 times around, because to wrap it around would not work well, unless the texture was set up for it (not a proportionate picture of a nail). Depending on the perspective you might need just the face a a little bit around the sides mapped. Use control points placed nicely for this.

On some bagatelles I just used the pictures of the nails and made black walls. if set to droppable they serve nothing but to mask the ball. These are set up to hover over the surface high enough for the ball to go under (not needed for direct overhead view) and another wall (invisible) is made the size of on the nail on the surface high enough to stop the ball. I think this might be what Bob is doing.

 

[Itchigo]

I admit I'm late to the party, I never knew there was anything between the 2 sites. I started at pn and gravitated to vpf because Faralos said there were more coders there and wanting to learn more I ended up hanging out there more, more because I'd made friends there than any other reason. Both are great sites. I think both sites are there for a reason- to enjoy, preserve, protect, PINBALL! It's like the Chevy/Ford thing or the VP/FP thing or less filling/ tastes great. (Damn, now I want a beer!). I'm way to new to know about or understand the old/new egos, all I know is what I can't get (learn/ download, whatever) from one the other will help.

I know they say vp8 is dying, but I will still keep it and love it as much as vp9. I've made my new tables in vp9 because it was the new thing going on (I'm always being told I'm behind the times) and wanted to keep current but, If I had to pick one it would be vp8. Except for an occasional ball passing through the flipper it just feels better to me (nudging and all), although I will admit "floating the ball" has helped me in playtesting.

I have played Noah's pincab at the expo and still thought it was flat, but I agree with Shockman that you will get used to it. I play on an old stereo cabinet the shape of a podium with controllers buil into it so it's basically an oversize gamepad with a 20 inch screen on top. That even seems better (to me) than the pincab, so I must have gotten used to it. Just my 2 cents worth which today is worth about 0, if fact I might owe money before this is sent.

 

[tiltjlp]

I admit I'm late to the party, I never knew there was anything between the 2 sites. I started at pn and gravitated to vpf because Faralos said there were more coders there and wanting to learn more I ended up hanging out there more, more because I'd made friends there than any other reason. Both are great sites. I think both sites are there for a reason- to enjoy, preserve, protect, PINBALL! It's like the Chevy/Ford thing or the VP/FP thing or less filling/ tastes great. (Damn, now I want a beer!). I'm way to new to know about or understand the old/new egos, all I know is what I can't get (learn/ download, whatever) from one the other will help.

I know they say vp8 is dying, but I will still keep it and love it as much as vp9. I've made my new tables in vp9 because it was the new thing going on (I'm always being told I'm behind the times) and wanted to keep current but, If I had to pick one it would be vp8. Except for an occasional ball passing through the flipper it just feels better to me (nudging and all), although I will admit "floating the ball" has helped me in playtesting.

I have played Noah's pincab at the expo and still thought it was flat, but I agree with Shockman that you will get used to it. I play on an old stereo cabinet the shape of a podium with controllers buil into it so it's basically an oversize gamepad with a 20 inch screen on top. That even seems better (to me) than the pincab, so I must have gotten used to it. Just my 2 cents worth which today is worth about 0, if fact I might owe money before this is sent.

I think you have a pretty good fix on things. What some newer folks might not know is that we started out as TMOF, which sttod for The Magic Of Flipperless, and yes, our focus was anything flipperless. We even made a name change to Flipperless.com for a while, before becoming Pinball Nirvana, and adding first VP flippered and Future Pinball, and then VPM.

It seems to me that VPF has evolved to where 95% of the focus is VPM, while we have embraced Flipperless and EMs a bit more. And yes, since VPF is busier, there are more script gurus there, but we have a fair share of coders here, as well as some really good problem solvers in Shockman, Sleepy, and druadic. I think that we'd lose something important if either site, as well as IRP and Pinball Originals ceased to exist.