What to do about the troublemakers?

[PacDude]

So Cowboy is continuing his flaming charade at some other ruleless forum now? Tisk. Tisk. Unlike a certain troublemaker, I won't bother to go to some forum and flamebait him or start a fracking crusade to try and get him banned

(how deliciously ironic he got his own sorry cowhide banned instead.)

Go Cowboy! Go Cowboy!



Look! He's so full of it cowdung is flying everywhere! Watch out!

:x train: :flush:


Phew. That was a close one!

The bottom line is:

 

[Pop Bumper Pete]

hey pacy, have I told you recently that your recreations are the best?

They are!

You always pick the tables that I enjoyed most as a teenager, for that I am grateful

That your WIP's show us mere mortals how you do it, for someone who is supposed to be a prick, that is mighty generous

TMFP says 'Pacdude is the best'

TMFP

 

[PacDude]

Supposed to be? I AM an arrogant prick. :D

Maybe I'm a generous arrogant prick, but that doesn't change my prick status. Say, what is a prick anyway? Is that something like a type2 diabetic? :D

 

[Pop Bumper Pete]

 

[tiltjlp]

Supposed to be? I AM an arrogant prick. :D

Maybe I'm a generous arrogant prick, but that doesn't change my prick status. Say, what is a prick anyway? Is that something like a type2 diabetic? :D

Well, to be honest, being a type 2 diabetic isn't much fun. In fact in some situations for a diabetic they become a useless arrogant prick if you can read between the lines. And that's often one of the better side effects.

John ldman

 

[Shockman]

Unlike a certain troublemaker, I won't bother to go to some forum and flamebait him or start a fracking crusade to try and get him banned

That reminds me. I want to get a hold of Rob046. I'm sure you e-mail or snail-mail him. I know you wouldn't let him go that easy.

 

[PacDude]

Actually, some people very close to me are Type2. I've tried the finger prick test myself numerous times while trying to get a handle on why my eye was hurting (making sure blood sugar wasn't somehow related). It wasn't much fun, but you get over the needle thing pretty fast.

 

[Greywolf]

Well, PD, if you at least admit you're an arrogant prick, that's half the battle right there. The other half is ->doing something about it<-.

Unless, of course, you LIKE being considered an arrogant prick (I sure wouldn't want that title, but if you say you are, you save someone else the trouble...).

The downside: Most people don't like hanging out with or discussing things with an arrogant prick.

The upside: The look on others' faces when they call you an arrogant prick and you look at them and say, "You say that like it's a bad thing...".

Oh, and hey: Does rob046 piss you off just because he seems to you to be more arrogant and prick-like, thus providing competition?

Just so nobody's confused, I'm not intending this as an attack; rather, it is intended as a humorous approach to someone who classifies himself as an arrogant prick.

And for the record, at least I try to keep my own attacks or points of view on the subject at hand, and you can ask anyone who knows me that I will defend even an arrogant prick from attacks in excess or beyond the scope of what's warranted.

With that, in all sincerity, I can say, "Have a fantastic evening."

Because, with all my spelling and grammar correction habits, with what bunches of useless trivia I have amassed over the years (which never surfaces until someone else discourses upon the subject), with what I consider to be image manipulation beyond average (at least in terms of images for pinball), and the penchant for perfect or near-perfect recreation, I, too, can come across as a horribly superious, critical, nit-picky...

...arrogant prick.

The difference I try to make is that I am working on how to phrase myself such that what I say comes across as constructive criticism rather than nit-picky superocity.

'night! :)

 

[PacDude]

Whether I actually am an arrogant prick or not is almost irrelevant to me because it all depends on your point-of-view. Clearly, some people think of me that way (usually other authors that have their own internal demons to deal with) and some people don't think of me that way. I don't usually think of myself that way, but I can see where I've acted arrogantly before and I can where people just THINK I have. It's easy to misinterpret online behavior when the person is just typing. Strongly opinionated doesn't equate with arrogant prick, but people with the opposite opinions might see it that way, especially if they're strongly opinionated also. What it really comes down to is a disagreement over viewpoints and opinions on matters with people that wouldn't hang out in the same social circles in real life, but find themselves in the same online circles because there's only one real circle in VP land (i.e. it's usually the same people no matter what forum you're on). It's why I think it's a good idea for me to NOT go to VPU. Some of the people there that formed it are the ones that I don't get along with and it's probably better we DON'T interact. 95% of the people I don't get along with in the VP community are other authors. I'm not going to give my reasons here why I think that is, but it's not too hard to figure out.

Now this idea of "showing off" is the other reason someone labels someone an arrogant prick. Burt Reynolds' character in Smokey and the Bandit is DEFINITELY a show-off type and he therefore has his "fans" and his detractors that thinks he's an arrogant prick. Whether you are a prick or not depends on whom you ask. If they think you're cool, you're not a prick (or it's not a bad thing). If they think you're an idiot, then you are an arrogant prick (and it's a bad thing). Just how dumb you are depends on what part of the country you're standing in (or more like what part of the country THEY are standing in).

If you've ever argued with someone on a debate team, you well know that the point is NOT to try and see the other person's point of view, but to WIN the debate. That's what's wrong with this world. Everyone thinks they're here to WIN (and/or earn fame, fortune, popularity) when the real purpose is to LEARN and GROW. But it's why I can't come to any kind of agreement with certain people. They have no interest in seeing my point of view or learning. They just want to label me (asshole or prick or whatever) and in some cases to try and get me banned out of pure hatred. These people are in trouble, karmatically speaking. If they can't move on and let things go, they're going to be back here again and again.

I don't hold a grudge with anyone, not even people like Cowboy (I wouln't be friends with John now if that were true). But if they're going to continue to be hostile or run crusades against me, I'm not going to be extra nice to them either. They are the ones with the problem because they are the ones that won't let go of their anger. Do you think I really give a crap what someone like Cowboy does with his life? But wasting time here bitching at someone he doesn't like when he could be spending quality time with his son or studying to get a better job or whatever it is he claims to do in real life seems like time better spent to me. So he doesn't like me. Big fucking deal. Letting one person out 6+ Billion on this planet get under your skin is STUPID and possibly even downright psychotic if taken far enough. Nothing I ever did has one thing to do with him either. He's like the Bush's in the world that think they're the world's vigilante police, out to protect the helpless poor staff members that had something negative said about them, regardless of whether it's true or not.

Am I really a prick? What is a prick? You know, I have no idea of the exact definition so I will look it up.

"A person regarded as highly unpleasant, especially a male"

Well, even by definition whether I am a prick or not depends on one's point of view. Clearly some find me unpleasant and some do not. Obviously, most of those that think I'm a prick probably appear like a prick to me too (i.e. very unplesant). You certainly can't say someone like Cowboy is very pleasant to be around when he's acting like that.

Ok let's deal with arrogant:

"1> Having or displaying a sense of overbearing self-worth or self-importance."

Well, I certainly don't think of myself as very important in the scheme of things so I don't really think I'm that arrogant in real life, but in terms of the VP world, it's harder to say. I've got "fans" telling him every day just how important I am to them. I don't take it very seriously, but it doesn't mean I don't see the value of my own work either. Even a developer from Ultracade was impressed with my tables (I have not signed a contract with them at this point, though). Self-important in VP land? Probably. Overbearing? That's kind of an opinion thing again just like the word "prick". I have played up an online "attitude" just for the fun of it (i.e. originally modeled a bit on "The Rock" wrestling persona, which is of course just as fake. The whole "Now go get The Pac a Pepsi" (or other drink) comes from that. Hey, I grew up watching big time wrestling. That's not to say that isn't a real part of my personality, but it's usually for laughs. Some people (especially those from non-english native speaking countries) tend to think I really act that way on a daily basis or something. They probably think WWE wrestling is real also.


"2> Marked by or arising from a feeling or assumption of one's superiority toward others: an arrogant contempt for the weak"

Well, I don't have contempt for the "weak" (even in pinball terms) or I wouldn't have been defending modders or trying to help newbies learn to use the editor, etc. What I know, I learned, even if it was over several lifetimes. You only become a victim when you refuse to learn any longer.

Rob? I was trying to help him NOT become truly arrogant (i.e. overbearing sense of self-importance). It was pretty obvious he was walking that path pretty fast just like I saw others do in the past. Instead of taking the comments for what they were worth, he denies everything anyone says, writes huge messages saying why he's NOT that way and then tells everyone else how much their tables suck. Where do I tell other people their tables suck? I may not lie and tell them they're tables are wonderful when they're not, but I usually just stay out of it and do my own thing. Thus, comparing me with Rob is a bit like comparing The Bandit with Snowman. I may be driving a show-off truck at times, but I'm not the owner. Snowman was one of the few people that could keep the Bandit halfway in line, though, but clearly I could not help Rob at all. He viewed me as Buford T. Justice instead, out to bust his good time. And no I don't e-mail him or anything. I just got sick of seeing him put down other people's work at VPF when it wasn't neccessary. If he would just let his own work speak for itself, there wouldn't have been any issue. But he was constantly DEMANDING to mod locked tables (cuz they suck and need his touch to become gold) and stating he had a right to do so. It got old fast.


But if people want to think of me as an arrogant prick, hey let them. It's no hair off my chest either way. There's no point in concetrating your time on the negative in this world as it will not lead to anything good. I'd rather look at the postive. Unfortunately, that's not always "easy" to do. It's easy to get sucked into negativity, especially when you're affected or someone you know is.

 

[tiltjlp]

Well, PD, if you at least admit you're an arrogant prick, that's half the battle right there. The other half is ->doing something about it<-.

Unless, of course, you LIKE being considered an arrogant prick (I sure wouldn't want that title, but if you say you are, you save someone else the trouble...).

The downside: Most people don't like hanging out with or discussing things with an arrogant prick.

The upside: The look on others' faces when they call you an arrogant prick and you look at them and say, "You say that like it's a bad thing...".

Oh, and hey: Does rob046 piss you off just because he seems to you to be more arrogant and prick-like, thus providing competition?

Just so nobody's confused, I'm not intending this as an attack; rather, it is intended as a humorous approach to someone who classifies himself as an arrogant prick.

And for the record, at least I try to keep my own attacks or points of view on the subject at hand, and you can ask anyone who knows me that I will defend even an arrogant prick from attacks in excess or beyond the scope of what's warranted.

With that, in all sincerity, I can say, "Have a fantastic evening."

Because, with all my spelling and grammar correction habits, with what bunches of useless trivia I have amassed over the years (which never surfaces until someone else discourses upon the subject), with what I consider to be image manipulation beyond average (at least in terms of images for pinball), and the penchant for perfect or near-perfect recreation, I, too, can come across as a horribly superious, critical, nit-picky...

...arrogant prick.

The difference I try to make is that I am working on how to phrase myself such that what I say comes across as constructive criticism rather than nit-picky superocity.

'night! :)

Interesting post Wolf. After I read it I had to check again to make sure Cowboy hadn't posted it. It didn't really sound like him, but you have a way of writing that is similar, but a lot less irrational.

As for the Dude's post, I tend to find him entertaining rather than exasperating. Attitude seems to be the key to all of this. If you like someone, you'll put up with a certain amount of BS from them. As for Rob, I like him, but he did get more than a little tiresome with his attitude and posting style.

I wish I knew why I get upset over Cowboy and not Rob, but it's a mystery. After a while I simply stopped reading Rob's posts, partly because he was ever longer winded than either the Dude of I can be. The sad thing about both Rob and Cowboy is that they are good authors, they just need not to take themselves so seriously.

John

 

[Greywolf]

Interesting post Wolf. After I read it I had to check again to make sure Cowboy hadn't posted it. It didn't really sound like him, but you have a way of writing that is similar, but a lot less irrational.

As for the Dude's post, I tend to find him entertaining rather than exasperating. Attitude seems to be the key to all of this. If you like someone, you'll put up with a certain amount of BS from them. As for Rob, I like him, but he did get more than a little tiresome with his attitude and posting style.

I wish I knew why I get upset over Cowboy and not Rob, but it's a mystery. After a while I simply stopped reading Rob's posts, partly because he was ever longer winded than either the Dude of I can be. The sad thing about both Rob and Cowboy is that they are good authors, they just need not to take themselves so seriously.

John

Well, rest assured that when I'm writing things, I'm usually aware of how to format a paragraph, of when I am coining a term ("professional writer" be damned, though I try not to invent too much). Sometimes I will use formatting more for effect than for propriety. One of the annoying things about HTML is that paragraphs do not receive an initial indent for the first line, and there is no way to effect this (except to put in a blank image that you HOPE is going to be five spaces wide on the other end, but there's no way to guarantee that).

Incidentally, who was the genius who decided that five spaces was a good indent? I prefer four, myself, but that could be the result of 20 years of coding where the tabs work best at every 4 spaces on screen...

ramblerambleramble...blah.

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

if you don't mind me interjecting here-

PD- whether or not you are an arrogant prick in RL is mostly irrelevant. you are an arrogant prick online IME. online you are self-centered, generally don't treat people very nicely and never have from my experience. you violate the 'rules' of netiquette again and again from the ~4 years i've seen you operate.

is this a bad thing? i don't think so- it just is what it is. it's just how you come across to me online. it doesn't mean that's how you are as on overall person because i don't claim to know you. when i had problems with you it was because i couldn't accept you for who you were and wanted to get you to change or conform to my idea of how people should be. i was being a dickhead about the matter, insulted you needlessly, and wasted mine, yours and other people's time.

so the bottom line for me is this- as an author you are prolific, innovative and valuable to the scene. i have a lot of appreciation and respect for that. as a person you are interesting, talented, unique and controversial, just like many other bright people. we may not be friends but i enjoy your presence in the scene.

 

[tiltjlp]

if you don't mind me interjecting here-

PD- whether or not you are an arrogant prick in RL is mostly irrelevant. you are an arrogant prick online IME. online you are self-centered, generally don't treat people very nicely and never have from my experience. you violate the 'rules' of netiquette again and again from the ~4 years i've seen you operate.

is this a bad thing? i don't think so- it just is what it is. it's just how you come across to me online. it doesn't mean that's how you are as on overall person because i don't claim to know you. when i had problems with you it was because i couldn't accept you for who you were and wanted to get you to change or conform to my idea of how people should be. i was being a dickhead about the matter, insulted you needlessly, and wasted mine, yours and other people's time.

so the bottom line for me is this- as an author you are prolific, innovative and valuable to the scene. i have a lot of appreciation and respect for that. as a person you are interesting, talented, unique and controversial, just like many other bright people. we may not be friends but i enjoy your presence in the scene.

Really a great post there nic, didn't know you had it in you. It pretty much is the way I see the majority of people in VP. Seems to me that if you don't raise some eyebrows now and again, you'll be nothing more than background noise. We all need some sort of virtual identity on the web, and it's up to others to determine just what that identity might be. And that determination can change day by day.

Most active VP members tend to be a little bland, possibly helpful, amusing, confused and so on. Folks like the Dude, Wolf, and even that irritating, at least to me, Cowboy, help add some spice and character to the proceedings. What is interesting is to watch folks who have been gone for a while, and them returned, as I did.

I think my VP facade has changed some, but that's for you folks to decide. And if it has, it wasn't anything I planned, or thought about, it simply happened. Maybe it's either more or less noticable since I spend a lot of time online. To be honest, while I miss everyone who is no longer active, most of them aren't that memorable, since they didn't really distinguish themselves from the masses.

If Cowboy had returned and simply started posting normal stuff, I doubt it would have been that big of a deal. Although he had been argumentative in the past, he wasn't really that bad. But when he returned this time, for whatever reason, he decided to make his mark, and bot, did he ever. So it's pretty much a matter of attitude and preception. For whatever reason the Dude's attitude I find entertaining, while Cowboy's I find highly obnoxious. Why? Who knows.

Now you nic, for some reason, i find it helps me accept who you are if I think of you as my Little Buddy, sort of like the character on that deserted tropic island. Percertion rules.

John

 

[PacDude]

Well, it seems the answer FROM the troublemakers is somehow to get all the nice guys (e.g. Bob, TMFP) to QUIT their jobs. I'm guessing the place will eventually go to hell again.

You know darn well the Dark Side doesn't just quit their job when the going gets tough. They hold on to their job until they're KICKED out from in-fighting. Ask the Republicans. They had to drag out the Republican majority leader in chains, practically to get rid of his sorry criminal ass.

 

[StevOz]

Hey Dude where do you rate me then because I aint quitting.

 

[PacDude]

So you're saying you're running for full admin now, Steve? Better hurry and go for it before Kinsey gets her resume back in there now that there's a big opening.

 

[StevOz]

Nah, no admin for me, I doubt it will come to that, though it won't be going to hell on my shift either.

 

[tiltjlp]

Nah, no admin for me, I doubt it will come to that, though it won't be going to hell on my shift either.

Well, it might come down to that Steve. I don't know if nic has quit or just taken time off, but besides AJ, I figure there's you, Greywolf, and da prez. It's amazing how quickly the forum is able to rip out people's spirits. And just in case the person who does the recruiting for vpf visits here, my answer is still no. Now if the choice comes down to Cowboy or me, I nominate Pacdude.

John

 

[PacDude]

I won't have time to do squat if I take this job in Cleveland. I'll be too busy driving back and forth and working overtime. I doubt Arizona would be much better for some time either. Lucky me, I just caught a nasty sinus cold (trying to treat it with Zicam to reduce its length so I'm not blowing my nose in Arizona all day long in a little over a week) and I have to tell them today if I'll take the Cleveland job (that they offered again and now that I know it pays more, which would cover gas for now and that I might be able to transfer to a closer location within a few months or probably pretty sure within a year), it's a little more tempting as I hate the idea of trying to do such a massive move. Thoughts of Cleveland blizzards and a 1 hour trip each way turning into 2+ hours doesn't make me fee any better, though. Plus I already have a ticket to go look at housing in Arizona so I'd be doing what? Trying to turn it into a vacation? I'm not sure what I'd do in Phoenix for a week).

I've got a hard decision to make and no time left to think about it, sneezing and blowing my nose all the while. I'm just a happy camper.

 

[tiltjlp]

I won't have time to do squat if I take this job in Cleveland. I'll be too busy driving back and forth and working overtime. I doubt Arizona would be much better for some time either. Lucky me, I just caught a nasty sinus cold (trying to treat it with Zicam to reduce its length so I'm not blowing my nose in Arizona all day long in a little over a week) and I have to tell them today if I'll take the Cleveland job (that they offered again and now that I know it pays more, which would cover gas for now and that I might be able to transfer to a closer location within a few months or probably pretty sure within a year), it's a little more tempting as I hate the idea of trying to do such a massive move. Thoughts of Cleveland blizzards and a 1 hour trip each way turning into 2+ hours doesn't make me fee any better, though. Plus I already have a ticket to go look at housing in Arizona so I'd be doing what? Trying to turn it into a vacation? I'm not sure what I'd do in Phoenix for a week).

I've got a hard decision to make and no time left to think about it, sneezing and blowing my nose all the while. I'm just a happy camper.

That's one of the things I like about you Dude. You have such a dynamic and positive outlook, and calmly and wisely make all the right decisions. At least you can't say your life is boring. And here I thought I was the only one who hated change.

John

 

[PacDude]

It seems Kinsey is calling me a chicken now in a thread at VPF. I guess she isn't interested in being friendly anymore.