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Why no pinmame integration?

corncobping

Pinball Nudger
Hi,

Been playing a few public tables on Future pinball - I can't understand why they haven't integrated pinmame yet, tables seem to have no dmd and rules are not from rom etc.

Ping
 

Phoenixx

Starfleet Member
Site Supporters
It is the policy of the creator, and as far as i can tell, hell is more likely to freeze over than him changing his mind on this issue.

Good for him though, i like people that stand by their principles. And like Kristian said, from a gamers perspective it is not really a loss anyway. At least not a big one,...
 

destruk

Pinball Wizard
Site Supporters
It is the policy of the creator, and as far as i can tell, hell is more likely to freeze over than him changing his mind on this issue.

Good for him though, i like people that stand by their principles. And like Kristian said, from a gamers perspective it is not really a loss anyway. At least not a big one,...

Well, I do not respect hypocrisy. They don't condone the use of roms that you don't own, however, it is perfectly ok for them to use images, sounds, rules, and layout that you don't own. More of a 'do as we say, not as we do' and following Black's lead with his unending threats to release a 'hacked vpinmame' when it was closed source, I wouldn't think it would be out of play to constantly threaten back to release Future Pinball WITH rom support just to tit for tat with the idiot, but that would make me no better than he is, so I won't.
 

Phoenixx

Starfleet Member
Site Supporters
I see what you mean.

I have to admit that i didnt follow the development of Future Pinball at all (im not playing it and i dont even have an account on their forums) but if what you say is true, and im sure it is, then you are absolutely right,...
 

gquiring

Inserted Coin
<dl class="postprofile" id="profile34850"><dt>
Black </dt><dd>Site Admin</dd><dd> </dd><dd>
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icon_annual_star.gif
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</dd><dd> </dd><dd>Posts: 2221</dd><dd>Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 5:04 am</dd><dd>Location: Perth, Australia</dd><dd>Favourite Table: Black Knight 2000</dd><dd>
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Re: Pinmame Support?

by Black on Thu Jan 01, 2009 7:35 am
Eventually I will probably HAVE to support some sort of emualtion (though I can say right now it wont be VPM as it is today).

With the VP scene slowly dying, no new development on either VP or VPM, the failure of other pinball simulators like hcpin (feel sorry to the people who actually donated to that project) and Emila It begs the question is there ever going to be another pinball simulator. I've seen 3 game reviews this year on other pinball games basically bagging them as not being worth it when you can download FP for free (this is in print and not on the web) (I do smile when I read that though
icon_wink.gif


There have been many calls for some sort of community program but nobody has ever done it and to be honest it takes years to get something upto scratch.. And to beat FP (or even VP) would take a LOT of work. (as they work out that it takes more than 3 months to make a pinball simulator and they usually give up after they get a few sprites moving around).

That leaves the question of having classic pinballs available to play in the years to come when VP stops working alltogether on newer operating systems or tables that look that prehistoric and nobody is interested. Although I still think that serveral members of the VPM team are total cock suckers that shouldn't undo the work of Steve and Martin (wpcmame) who trully believed in what they where doing.

Who knows when it will happen (and I'm not really looking forward to all the idiots asking for ROMs) but if I want tables created over the last few decades to live on then I will have to support it at some point.
Black
 

Phoenixx

Starfleet Member
Site Supporters
The man sure has a problem or two and definitely a couple of odd views too.

But, since talking about other people behind their backs is not nice i will only say this; i think his real problem is not so much with emulation per se, but more with certain people who work/worked on VisualPinMAME. Destruk probably first and foremost,...not sure of course but it should be a pretty good guess. And since incorporating support for VPM would put him in a situation where he had to acknowledge at least to some degree the work of everyone who has contributed to it, he rather dismisses it. Its the old ego-thing all over again,...in my opinion the single biggest problem in this so-called community. The needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many,...which is a shame,...because as long as that kind of thinking keeps dominating everything, this whole thing can never be what it actually could be if only there were a different thinking,...


But enough about that, what was funny though, (well, not really of course), is that he calls people who ask for ROMs 'idiots'. I mean what are they supposed to do? Write them themselves? Obviously they will need them if the tables need them or the tables wont work, so calling people 'idiots' for asking for them, isnt that kind of like selling someone a car and then calling them names for asking for gasoline? I mean, no doubt about it, there are LOTS of imbeciles out there, but people who simply ask for what they need in order to make something work would seem to be the last to fall in that category. I could definitely think of better candidates here,...
 

m4paws

Inserted Coin
The needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many,...which is a shame,...because as long as that kind of thinking keeps dominating everything, this whole thing can never be what it actually could be if only there were a different thinking,...
Ideally, a big open source community would be nice. I just don't think that virtual pinball has a big enough base to do it. And in a community with so few participants it's much harder to distance the projects from the personalities involved in the creation of those projects.
 

Phoenixx

Starfleet Member
Site Supporters
I see your point.

But i still think that this might just be a result of the very circumstances, meaning if the open-source-spirited thinking were the dominating thinking then there might be a significantly larger base to begin with. Because a open source minded people will obviously never join something which is clearly a ego-dominated 'realm', while if the circumstances were reverse they might have joined right away. And the bigger something gets the more it attracts the attention of others, which means it isnt even appraisable (estimable) how many people have ultimately not joined only because of the status quo.


This is one of the cases where it would be great if we could turn back time to see how it would turn out if it was done the other way around. I could be wrong of course, but somehow i believe it could only have become better than what we have now,...
 

Dripdry

Pinball Nudger
It can still change, right?

Hi,

As someone who is new here, FuturePinball's creator's comments alone make me a little wary of getting involved in the community. As a somewhat intelligent person (I hope), how am I an idiot for wanting to play some fun games? Wasn't the whole point of FP to allow people to have fun and preserve the past for all those who do not have the means to own pinball machines?

Slashdot.org had an article about Pinball Construction recently which referenced Visual Pinball in the article. It got me really excited! I thought, "You mean to tell me I've been able to make my own pinball tables for years and no one let me in on it?" There were others on Slashdot who reminisced about PCS, so I am surely not alone.

After going to Visual Pinball's site and trying to figure out why the forum and Randy Davis' email was down (does anybody know?) I eventually stumbled here.

I expected to come here and see a community bursting at the seams with incredible ideas and implementations for wild new machines and an air of sharing surrounding the classics. What it sounds like, though, is that the community is fighting against and doubting itself at a time when it has never been easier to gather an online following whether traditionally through "word of email" or through Meetup, Myspace, Facebook, or heaven knows what else. Am I wrong?

One great way is OSS. Open Source Software is a bigger movement than it has even been. If there is a time to put code into the public domain it is now. I installed Ubuntu on my girlfriend's aging laptop the other day. She loves it! What's great is an Applications list is prominently featured that allows anyone to install many different programs easily and free. It isn't a tough stretch to imagine FP, VP, and PinMAME in a game library just like that, with its own Open Source community to tinker with and support it, with the original creators at the helm of change control.

With MAME anyone can replay the old arcade classics. Why not pinball? People get all prissy about others wanting ROMs. Well not all of us have the ability to buy arcade or pinball machines on a regular basis. If the community is to survive then why not allow many more people into it by allowing ROMs? Most won't become more than armchair fans. Many people won't go out and buy pinball machines after "pirating" ROMs, but most can't afford them. Those that can might buy a table, go out and become collectors who cherish and repair these aging machines. It's all about exposure.

Yes, there are divisions between the coders. Why not allow FP or VP out into the community in order to mitigate those rivalries? There's talk about turning back time to see what might have been. Why? What is wrong with resolving to change viewpoints just a little bit and see what good comes of it? As someone who has helped rescue a faltering family business by working with a stubborn 65 year old father who won't change a bit, I know it's hard! However, it can still happen, and it can still work.

People are looking for games that break the cookie cutter mould and offer social aspects like high score challenges. Look at World of Goo, Braid, or other independent games out there that present a new slant on things. Pinball is fresh and new to a lot of people. They don't want the same old EA Sports game every year. Why do you think the Wii is so popular? People can challenge each other in a fun, social setting. I'm sure pinball could be part of that social gaming if it were opened to a wider community.

I'm sorry if I miss the mark on any of my comments or if I overstep my bounds. Having already missed Visual Pinball when it was just referenced in an extensively viewed article makes me wonder what is going on here. There is some selfishness to this post(I REALLY want to play the Indiana Jones pinball table again!) but please forgive a scrappy young geek his shortcomings.
:help:

Let the flamings begin!
 

bob

Add-a-ball specialist
Site Supporters
Let the flamings begin!

Why would we flame you? FP and VP belong to the individual coders that created them, FP & VP are worth money and both currently have contracts that make their creators money, so why would either guy open source them? Would you? They are free for you to download and free for you to use, so a good time is had by all.

So you want to play Indiana Jones? You came to the right place. :) Now click on the link below, register, download table, Rom, Visual Pinball, PinMame, Sound samples, vbscore file or check into the easy install kit (VIP) by Phoenixx ,which you can find on the Homepage of this site.

http://vpforums.org/index.php?showtopic=468&st=0&#entry2119
 

Dripdry

Pinball Nudger
OK

I suppose I misunderstood. It looks to me like both VP and FP are free. Are they licensing out the code they've written, or what?

Thanks for the link.
 

bob

Add-a-ball specialist
Site Supporters
I suppose I misunderstood. It looks to me like both VP and FP are free. Are they licensing out the code they've written, or what?

Thanks for the link.

Yes, they have both licensed their code for commercial products.... Pics below.

pw-product.jpg


flyer1.jpg




ULTRAPIN.jpg
 

wangho

Pinball Player
hmmm... I just checked out Future Pinball and I dont care for it at all. I tried out Bride Of Pinbot. It's a nice table, but the whole experience seems too conservative and impersonal. VP seems to offer alot more personality and unique vision from it's authors.
 
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