Cover Girl (Keeney, 1947)

EM Recreation FP Cover Girl (Keeney, 1947) v1.0

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Electro-Mechanical Machines
Future Pinball
Many thanks Gimli. I noticed that and it's working as intended. I'll just add the physics and post it here for testing. Not sure if I can do it today though.
 
I still don't like the physics I *think* this type of table should have but everything is working :)

I'm also struggling with the lighting. I don't really want a mod, just keeping it original as much as possible lights wise.
 
Just in case anyone want to try the updated table.

Won't be released just yet as there are developments regarding DFv2 ;)
 
Whoof. Finally finished a multiple-day media project, and was able to test this out a little.

- Very cool to see the properly-sized baton flipper swinging both ways, and with many balls you're lucky to use it at all!

- I'm feeling a 'new' flipper move of holding down the opposite-side flipper so that the baton flipper points downwards towards the ball, then you release that button and hit the same-side flipper to create a powerful shot. It takes a little getting used to!

- I don't see any video online to compare this with, but all the flippers feel a bit overpowered to me at the moment. Most physical objects feel a bit 'bouncy' to me also. I need to look for some footage of similar tables to get a better sense of that, though.
 
Well, this tables, me finger in the air guessing, Are slow and bouncy. Only way to have some control. You have to use your nudge skills. Flippers are still overpowered, yes. And the slingshots at the bottom might be too. But it's hard to find a balance not to get them to constantly shoot the kickers or bouncing from on to the other (chronic FP problem but the ZED flippers with EMKickers are not the solution here I think)

Also, it's my perception, that you have to nudge as part of the gameplay so you can keep the ball moving sideways and not falling. Maybe reducing the slope to 5... It's a hard weird table and there's a b&w old movie but the girl's not even playing and if it was you couldn't see anything. The table is near flat hence my 5º slope comment.

I tend to do the same "move" with the bottom flipper :D

In any case, this is not a release, yet. I just wanted to show you that's is done. Now it needs polishing but without comparison videos - bad YT videos are still better than none - and for such an old table it's just best guesses on my part.
 
Well, this tables, me finger in the air guessing, Are slow and bouncy. Only way to have some control. You have to use your nudge skills. Flippers are still overpowered, yes. And the slingshots at the bottom might be too. But it's hard to find a balance not to get them to constantly shoot the kickers or bouncing from on to the other (chronic FP problem but the ZED flippers with EMKickers are not the solution here I think)

Also, it's my perception, that you have to nudge as part of the gameplay so you can keep the ball moving sideways and not falling. Maybe reducing the slope to 5... It's a hard weird table and there's a b&w old movie but the girl's not even playing and if it was you couldn't see anything. The table is near flat hence my 5º slope comment.

I tend to do the same "move" with the bottom flipper :D

In any case, this is not a release, yet. I just wanted to show you that's is done. Now it needs polishing but without comparison videos - bad YT videos are still better than none - and for such an old table it's just best guesses on my part.
I like to try it , I missed your link above that is no longer available
 
@Gimli
Oops, I deleted it by mistake. here it is: cover girl. But it is still unfinished.
 

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  • Cover Girl (Keeney '47) v1.2b.fpt
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Yeah, it took me a while to adjust to the other method. This feels more natural but which one is correct?
 
Another iteration on development.
raycastshadows, rollingballsounds, wall and an attempt at lighting. I created an invisible flasher (vertex dot in milkshape!) and added it.
Latest and greatest dfv2 version is on this one too.

I was hoping to have shadows cast by those 4 flashers too but enabling raycast on them si not working. Spotlights was the next best thing and at least the ball as nice shadows :)

Although I got 5 bumpers hit on the current setup I'm not satisfied with the physics.

In any case, input is welcome @FranciscoPozo @Gimli @GeorgeH @TerryRed @JLou5641 @Isaac Sauvage

/edit
newer version below
 
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The physics feel better in general. That said:

- IMO the plunger and flippers are overpowered right now, and the elastics too bouncy. Check out this video by comparison. That Humpty Dumpty plays typically in terms of this era of pinball.

- Part of the reason you want to slow everything down on tables like this is because slow, exacting nudging was such a big part of the gameplay experience. So if the game plays too fast, you're essentially neutering it compared to how it actually played, and was designed to play.

- Being able to plunge the ball exactingly was also a huge deal with this kind of game, which is why I'd recommend converting the plunger-type from the 'timed' version to the one in which you can use up and down keys (for example) to precisely select plunger strength. But I'd still recommend adding a random variable to that for obvious reasons.
 
Well nudging is a bit messy in this table. Too strong and the balls on the basket move too much which is equivalent to tilt.

Hard to setup this one. Thanks for the feedback.
 
Just seen the video. I tried to slow it down like this... but I have to try another approach. Because I have only succeeded in making the ball floating :D
 
IIRC, last year Rafal added the ability to control a ball's VelX and VelY in BAM. So I think what you could do in this case is to add a subroutine to prevent all balls in the basket's velocity from going too high. Or something like that.

Maybe another way would be to adjust the tilt sensitivity, or the nudge strength, or some combination of the two.

I like the 'floaty ball' because it feels right for the low slope these kinds of tables had. Keep it up. :-)
 
It is my intention to make it work like that ;)

How though, it's another thing but there might be an easier way that I don't like but it might just do the trick in this type of table ;)
 
new version of the table

And unless someone wants to look at the lighting... I think I'm done. Yes, it is bouncy and I want it to be that way ;)
 
I have a few years of forums. I know better and I'm already used to your writing. Don't worry. I just want to do this table justice to the best of my abilities.
 
I have a few years of forums. I know better and I'm already used to your writing. Don't worry. I just want to do this table justice to the best of my abilities.
I have no idea how a table like this should play.

But it seems nigh impossible to keep a ball alive.

My inclination would be to make everything bounce the ball like crazy to keep it in play.

Even put a friggin post at the bottom if I had my druthers

I would also crank the nudge up to max and set the nudge angles to very high.

It would be cool to smack the ball on the bottom sides of the new flipper and have it bounce off the slings back into play somehow so you have a prayer. This wouldn't make the coin ops any money in real life but who cares :)

I love the new Ray Tracer effect
 
Well, humpty dumpty table is a very good representation. Nice ideia on the nudge angles.

I still have the bouncy table settings but Isaac seems to care :D
 
I have no idea how a table like this should play.

But it seems nigh impossible to keep a ball alive.
If I may suggest-- check out the Humpty Dumpty video, Gimli.

The ball was kept alive due to a combination of low table slope & skillful nudging.

That said, balls would drain faster, no matter what. Because tables from this era were not like SS tables from the 80's on, in which even Tommy's nephew could keep the ball alive indefinitely.
 
If I may suggest-- check out the Humpty Dumpty video, Gimli.

The ball was kept alive due to a combination of low table slope & skillful nudging.

That said, balls would drain faster, no matter what. Because tables from this era were not like SS tables from the 80's on, in which even Tommy's nephew could keep the ball alive indefinitely.
I just watched Humpty interesting to know but boring to play 😀
 
Hi,you guys:
There are four Humpty Dumpty videos in youtube.
 
@Isaac Sauvage

Think this is more accurate: new version
Finally got around to checking it out......

Yeah, I'd say that's better, good man!

That said, it seems like the overall feel of all recent FP-BAM I've played is 'off' in various ways. If you've heard of the expression "Uncanny Valley," it reminds me of the same concept, only with amusement machines in this case.

Not totally sure this is all related to DF1 or DF2, but I'm thinking (and hoping?) that if I were to sit down for hours, I could maybe work out some of the issues & adjustments. Or not, who knows? :lol:

It might also be that DF2 works 'out of the box' best on tables that aren't super slow (like this one) or super-fast (like King Kong).


Lastly, in theory this would make a good table where you could let the user choose between traditional physics or modern slope & flipper strength. Could do the same thing with the baton flipper at bottom-- have the user choose between authentic (very small), or larger, like the size Francisco originally used.

Anyway, I appreciate the share. This is certainly a beautiful old table, regardless of whether it's fun in the modern sense.
 
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