Downloading and NO feedback

[druadic]

Folks;

I have to get this out of my system. First off, there are NUMEROUS authors out there that take the time out of THEIR busy schedule to make some fine tables for Visual Pinball. I know this; I am NOT the best author out there nor do I want to be. I can only do what I can.

Now, if you have time to download a table, YOU HAVE TIME TO LEAVE FEEDBACK. Be it private mail or email, or even a post. It doesn't take but a few minutes of your time to do this. Some authors don't care and some do. I'm speaking of course for those authors that do care. I do and I think it's only fair for anyone who is downloading a table to leave feedback. BOTH PN and VPF have links that you can click on to leave feedback.

I'm not looking for fanfare nor a pat on the back. What I need to know is what am I missing on my releases? Is something NOT there that should be? Did you like the table the way it was? LET ME KNOW. I cannot make better and better working tables if I don't get feedback. See where I'm coming from? Quite a few folks at VPF have done this and things have been fixed or implemented into the original relelase. This is appreciated because in the long run, the table looks and plays better than before.

Yes, some authors like to be told that their work is good. Of course I do, I admit that. Also, authors appreciate this support. Does it do good? Of course it does; it makes the author want to make and create much better tables for all of you. It also makes the author feel good about his skills (or not) in what he can accomplish via VP. See where this is going?

I'm venting and in truth find a lack of feedback very disparaging. Some authors will agree with me on this, some not. Some just won't care. I LOVE to make tables for the public and do my best to bring you the best I can in the flipperless genre of VP. I can only do so much. But when there is a lack of feedback, I really wonder if anyone cares or if I'm not doing something right? My playtester tiltjlp gives me feedback for several reasons; some is good and some is not even though it's just playtesting. Does this help? YES. If it wasn't for the "bagatelle king" testing my work, I doubt I would be releasing anything. Yes, tiltjlp is very much appreciated for taking time out of his schedule to test what I send to him.
Thanks John!

This will be my only post about this matter. Personally, I like how VPF makes it so you HAVE to become a member to download tables. Of course if it was me running the site (which it isn't and this is NOT against Noah) I would make the site REQUIRE feedback for the table download within a few days. If feedback wasn't posted within the required time, you would get emails about it every hour on the hour to leave that required feedback. It sounds like nagging, but if folks have a few minutes to download a table, they can leave feedback.

How hard can it be? I've downloaded quite a few tables at VPF, tried them out and left feedback ON EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THEM. Yes, I have! When I have a few minutes I will post feedback here as well. I can only be at one place at one time, but promise feedback. Some tables I have not downloaded so I cannot leave feedback until I at least try them.
I steer clear of 80% of the flippered tables, but do download them, try them out and leave that feedback. I have left posts for many authors. I don't play many original games either but have tried a few. I leave feedback even though I am currently working on VP WIP.

So, on a final note feedback is important to the authors. Honestly I would feel like dirt if I downloaded a table, played it and didn't leave some sort of feedback. My conscience gets the best of me when it comes to kindness. Doesn't it for you?
Honestly, why should I even have to remind folks about this???? Have you downloaded a VP table? Doesn't the author deserve feedback? How would you feel if you made something and heard nothing? Doesn't feel good does it?

Thus ends this rant. Thanks for reading this post.

druadic

SPECIAL THANX TO: Sabbat, Neo, tiltjlp, Deep Stuff, Bolt, Rosve, Clyde, Iouhaven and Grizz. Thanx to you who have posted feedback AND complaints on my flippered releases. I appreciate this very very much. Thank you. If it wasn't for you folks, Pro Pool v1.2 wouldn't be playing properly.

 

[tiltjlp]

A good post Will, that probably will get some negative comments. Since most of my bagatelle only have a small number of downloads, I'm used to not getting feedback. So when I do get feedback, I do appreciate it, especially when it's about a bug, or some way to improve a game. Our recent Trophy Hunt release got favorable comment from a fellow who likes flipperless games, and yes, it made my day.

But what really is nice are the handful of folks who, while not big flipperless fans, appreciate that I'm filling the gap in Pinball History, particularly my WWII Proaganda series. 95% of the community won't ever download one of my tables, simply because they don't have flippers, but that's fine with me. I make the games I enjoy, for myself, and for the few dozen folks who like challening games, with or without flippers.

So while feedback is nice, and is apreciated, what is even nicer is that I've recently noticed a small increase in the number of downloads for my stuff. While there aren't that many at VPF, which is sort of a VPM site, the combined numbers here and there are growing. So just maybe you and I are making a few converts. But the nicest thing, which never happened in the past, is that I'm now being sent images of games people would like to see me make.

 

[druadic]

John;

Of course it will get negative comments. That wouldn't surprise me in the least. The worst part of it is the folks that take and take and take. Some of these tables are NOT easy to recreate at all! It's not me I'm talking about either! Look at Starman's work or Eala's! There's many other authors out there that really bust their ass to make a fine VP table and have little or no feedback. Remember the old saying "First time, shame on me; second time, shame on YOU". I think these folks get the hint. I'm talking about not just freeloaders but most of us all in general. Even me!

I too appreciate the kind comments from one guy here named Ken Lyons. I think his name is Ohmwiz on the forum. I was surprised to read about what he had said about the WIP I released. It was truly appreciated! Of course he posted some gripes about some of my WIP and for that I too thank him for. There are a few older VP tables I'd LOVE to update due to this fact. If it wasn't for his post(s) I never would have realized some of the issues some of my older VP tables have!

I would be afraid to post this at VPF. This is not something I think they would care to talk about anyway. No offense, but I think this topic should be brought to light. If memory serves, didn't I post about this years ago? A lot of authors agreed about this and so did many downloaders.

I also realize there are more downloads here for my VP releases as well. I'm shocked. That is fine, but what about a small post or a rating? One, two three seconds, it's done. That wasn't too tough to do and I'm sure ANY author would greatly appreciate this.

I will be showing my appreciation to those folks who posted and voted on my Skykings table by releasing a non public table. Maybe, sometime in the future it might be put up for the public. Until then, I will say "thank you" to those few folks who posted the good and bad and what had to be changed in Skykings. They know who they are and the second I get the table done for them, I'll email them personally to send it to them. The same went for the Pro Pool VP9 table I redid. Look at all the posts and gripes I had. Those folks will be thanked as well.

This is what I'm talking about John. A small "thank you" goes a LONG way to an author. I appreciate it and the finished table (when finished) I make for those few folks is my way of saying "thanks!" for all the help, posts, complaints and everything else they posted. I'm sure I'm NOT the only author that feels this way.

Let folks slam me, hate me, dislike me or whatever. I'm very straightforward and tell it like it is. I'm not being rude or crass. I'm just laying it "on the line" and stating a fact.

I've said it once and I'll say it again; if you can download a VP table / game within a few minutes, you can post feedback or rate the game. It's that simple.

They know who they are. Let's see some feedback folks please. It's one of the few ways an author has to work with his / her WIP and to make better releases for YOU. Don't you want the best? Do you want a game to run right? If so, POST FEEDBACK.

Thank you.

druadic

 

[bob]

I have learned that authors do not want negative feedback. They say they want it, but that's just BS. Authors don't mind someone pointing out actual errors or scoring rules or stuff like that, but tell them their rubbers look square or their flipper settings suck and some of them will get their flame throwers out. BTW, your rubbers suck.

The download numbers here are great, because if a human or maybe even a bot looks at the screenshot, your download number is increased.

I never rate a table unless I feel it deserves a 5 star rating. I would prefer a thumbs up, without a thumbs down option. Moderators or some staff can see who rated what and what rating they gave, same as polls. Some people will rate your personality instead of the table.

I enjoy getting feedback, I've even told people they don't even have to give positive feedback, just say, "Hi Bob!" It does get tiring to see only, "Thanks for the table" or "Thanks for the update" comment, but those are better than nothing. I've tried posting to let people know if they like a table, they should comment, no comments=no tables, so I guess they are telling us something.

One way to get comments is to give comments.... Make a few friends and they will feel obligated to leave you feedback. :) The best way to receive comments is to create JPSalas-like tables (good luck with that one) :)

I miss the pacdude WIP and Release threads, those were always a treat to follow, the threads were bullet-holed with religion, politics, soda/beer opinions, flame wars, idolizing comments, feuds, etc. Ah, those were the good ole days.... :)

Anyway, rewarding feedback with special favors is a dumb idea. Requiring feedback is a dumb idea.

With that all said and done, I do realize that most people do the best job they can on their projects, so what can you really say to them after you offer a few suggestions and they don't implement them? Do you keep telling them their rubbers suck or do you just quit giving them feedback? I enjoy any type of comment, but I am still only going to do it the way I want to do it, my way isn't the best or I would get JPlike comments, but I can always sing..... I Did It My Way...... Of course my way is using a lot of JP's objects, that guy is light-years ahead of anyone else who makes tables.

So the bottom line is.... I download most of JPSalas' tables because they are awesome, they go in a special folder so I can find them when I want to play a table with Visual Pinball. All the other tables I download go into one gigantic folder and when I buy a new computer, that folder doesn't make it to the new system. I would assume that is what people do with my tables. You can also help by following the three R's of waste management.... Reduce, reuse, and recycle bin those old .vpt's.

 

[druadic]

Bob;

Thank you for this post. Perhaps I shouldn't care. I do enjoy what I make and I choose what I want to make for various reasons.

I have NEVER played one of JPSalas' tables for the reason is I don't use VPinMAME. Never have. I KNOW JP makes some wicked stuff too. It's too bad I don't use VPinMame but the fact of the matter is that most of my work is flipperless which doesn't require it. Many flippered tables don't need it either!

I have played numerous VP tables (MANY not at PN or VPF) and there are some I don't keep and some I do that aren't mine. If I know I'll play them again they stay on my flash drive. Most of mine are there, but not all of them.

I do like the constructive criticisms that people post. If it wasn't for this I would not had gotten Pro Pool VP9 Ver. 1.2 finished. It's posts like this that make the game play right.

Of course you admit feedback is a nice and welcomed thing. Every author likes this no matter what. It's that little bit of "thanks" that makes an author want to make more tables. Tell me if I'm wrong.

Thanks for the post Bob. This was NOT the answer I was looking for from you; I really expected and full head to head butting. I'm amazed you feel like this as well. Goes to show though that most authors really do want some kind of posting or thanks for their works.

druadic

 

[bob]

Bob;

I have NEVER played one of JPSalas' tables for the reason is I don't use VPinMAME. Never have. I KNOW JP makes some wicked stuff too. It's too bad I don't use VPinMame but the fact of the matter is that most of my work is flipperless which doesn't require it. Many flippered tables don't need it either!

He has made non VPM tables. This one he made in about 45 minutes.

 

[tiltjlp]

Bob, I agree with a lot of what you say, but you're wrong about viewing screenshots here increasing the download count. I just checked to make sure. Only actual downloads will increase the numbers.

 

[bob]

Bob, I agree with a lot of what you say, but you're wrong about viewing screenshots here increasing the download count. I just checked to make sure. Only actual downloads will increase the numbers.

Jon must have fixed it or it was fixed in one of his updates. I just checked and it doesn't increase the downloads anymore, but it use to a few years ago.

It is hard to believe a table can be downloaded over 3,000 times and only receive one comment and one vote.

 

[tiltjlp]

It is amazing, but then most downloaders aren't active members, simply downloaders.

 

[sleepy]

Been here a long time and I can't help but notice that many downloaders think that table authors are supposed to be either experts or employees of a company providing these tables.
Many downloaders think that the tables are an offshoot of MAME and they Expect quality, like a Pro Pinball.

As for feedback, I've noticed too often that the praise is more about congratulating the Victor in competition against a previous author(s) and contributors, and less to do with thanking authors for sharing some good fun.
I can't count how many times now that an author has borrowed an original method from an underrated previous table or from a post detailing a discovered method that did not exist in past efforts and then took credit for the method, or received tons of praise for coming up with the method while the original contributor remains unsung by the users.

On a side note, several years ago I suggested making a Wizard of Oz table in the Chat Room at vpforums.com.
Kinsey liked the idea and picked up on it, but it was never finished.
Now there is a commercial version expected for release within the next few months.

Now, I like the idea of a W machine as theme, but what a strange, out of the blue theme to choose as a commercial machine.
Why not Harry Potter or Tron, something current?
Do you suppose that we are being watched?

 

[Shockman]

Perhaps in the commercial world ideas are king too. I know that what to do is often the hard part especially compared to doing it.

I suggested Alice in Wonderland. Maybe that is next. I would not want to do it, but it would be a good theme.

With a world as big as we have, I'm sure you are right, but I think many people might be pleasantly surprised at what they get when they download a state of the art VP table.

"Why not Harry Potter or Tron, something current?" One reason to go outside the contemporary is to avoid the time, hassle, and expense of acquiring licence.

 

[1234fd]

I have about 150 VP/VPM tables, a lot of them originasl. I personnally always make a comment about a table I downloaded, mostly at VPF, even if I do not keep it afterwards.

The only reason you have never got one of my comment about your flipperless tables is that they do not interest me at all. Nothing personnal of course!

I do not have much time to play VP & it´s always a dilemma to choose a table, as I can only play one at a time.

More & more my choice is restricted to three authors, JPSalas, Bob5453 for his great originals & the very special thing (love?) he puts into them & Eala, the absolute master of game flow, imho.

 

[sleepy]

Oh yeah, the license thing is a hassle...
...unless the studio and the manufacturer are one and the same.
Disneyland had a couple of custom Bally machines made for Pirates of the Caribbean back in 1967 and I know there are Williams family in Hollywood. Harry Williams used to be based in Santa Monica, about 10 miles away.

I mean, I knew a Williams in the Sixties.
He was a Barber.

 

[druadic]

Been here a long time and I can't help but notice that many downloaders think that table authors are supposed to be either experts or employees of a company providing these tables.
Many downloaders think that the tables are an offshoot of MAME and they Expect quality, like a Pro Pinball.

As for feedback, I've noticed too often that the praise is more about congratulating the Victor in competition against a previous author(s) and contributors, and less to do with thanking authors for sharing some good fun.
I can't count how many times now that an author has borrowed an original method from an underrated previous table or from a post detailing a discovered method that did not exist in past efforts and then took credit for the method, or received tons of praise for coming up with the method while the original contributor remains unsung by the users.

On a side note, several years ago I suggested making a Wizard of Oz table in the Chat Room at vpforums.com.
Kinsey liked the idea and picked up on it, but it was never finished.
Now there is a commercial version expected for release within the next few months.

Now, I like the idea of a W machine as theme, but what a strange, out of the blue theme to choose as a commercial machine.
Why not Harry Potter or Tron, something current?
Do you suppose that we are being watched?

Sleepy;

And folks wonder why I stick with the "OLD" flipperless machines. Why deal with the BS of a company who sees they're flippered games recreated and then have to deal with them? I truly enjoy coin op flipperless pin machines for the skill and am sure I don't have to have Gottlieb's copyright holders looking over my shoulders when I make something. Of course I did make Gottlieb's Pro Pool for VP9 but I placed my name in the background. No big deal. Who knows if around the corner Sonic or Chicago Coin or another big name company is trying to figure out some way of playing with the folks at the forums?

As for Bally, it seems they just don't really care. I could be wrong. I know Gottlieb's copyright holders have been watching and waiting. I've gotten a few emails myself over the years about this and that. Seems most of the flipperless companies don't really care since they are defunct or just flat out gone. Who knows.

As for authors using other authors work and taking credit, I've done this and have admitted I made a mistake. No big deal; I won't take credit for something that isn't mine, but find it nice to take something a step further if something can be done better with the script.

I also try to recreate games that require skill. Flippers really don't do it for me but I do enjoy them now and then. I find that the flipperless side of pinball has some of the most wicked and tough skill learning curves. It's this that makes the game for me, along with some gorgeous artwork.

Overall I love ANY coin op games. I don't play too many originals but have and some them are damned good.

d

 

[sleepy]

I have only one thing against flipperless tables, but that is not the fault of the game itself.

I just wish Visual Pinball had analog control pad support for the Plunger. The default VP Plunger behavior isn't the same as a real table with the player control of a live Plunger.
In VP, the default Plunger plays like sudden death. Pull it back and you have to fire it instead of using a calculated pull and adjust and with the ability to let off and return the Plunger force back to rest if needed.
The workarounds using Kickers with set and stop adjustments on the pullback are too accurate.

The Pinball Wizard controller allows a live Plunger effect, but not everyone can afford one.

 

[tiltjlp]

I have about 150 VP/VPM tables, a lot of them originasl. I personnally always make a comment about a table I downloaded, mostly at VPF, even if I do not keep it afterwards.

The only reason you have never got one of my comment about your flipperless tables is that they do not interest me at all. Nothing personnal of course!

I do not have much time to play VP & it´s always a dilemma to choose a table, as I can only play one at a time.

More & more my choice is restricted to three authors, JPSalas, Bob5453 for his great originals & the very special thing (love?) he puts into them & Eala, the absolute master of game flow, imho.

I'm just curious, and no, this isn't an attack or bashing by any means, but have you ever played a flipperless game? I find it so frustrating knowing there are folks who have never played one of mine or druadic's tables, but have decided they don't like flipperless stuff. Why not give a few a try if you never have, so you can make an informed decision. But since I make what I enjoy playing, it doesn't really bother me that much. It just frustrates me to have my tables rejected without being given a chance.

 

[druadic]

I have only one thing against flipperless tables, but that is not the fault of the game itself.

I just wish Visual Pinball had analog control pad support for the Plunger. The default VP Plunger behavior isn't the same as a real table with the player control of a live Plunger.
In VP, the default Plunger plays like sudden death. Pull it back and you have to fire it instead of using a calculated pull and adjust and with the ability to let off and return the Plunger force back to rest if needed.
The workarounds using Kickers with set and stop adjustments on the pullback are too accurate.

The Pinball Wizard controller allows a live Plunger effect, but not everyone can afford one.

I try to steer clear of the default plunger if at all possible. Some of my recreations DO use this if it calls for it, but most of the time I try not to use it because of this reason. tiltjlp has also steered clear of it as well. Take a look at flipperless games and there's bound to be one that's right for you. In some of my releases, you'll see a choice for "regular" or "human" plunger modes. Regular is just that, the regular type of pull / release. Human on the other hand is off by a few and makes the game a greater challenge. With the human setting, you'll never know how that ball is really going to shoot.

 

[tiltjlp]

I try to steer clear of the default plunger if at all possible. Some of my recreations DO use this if it calls for it, but most of the time I try not to use it because of this reason. tiltjlp has also steered clear of it as well. Take a look at flipperless games and there's bound to be one that's right for you. In some of my releases, you'll see a choice for "regular" or "human" plunger modes. Regular is just that, the regular type of pull / release. Human on the other hand is off by a few and makes the game a greater challenge. With the human setting, you'll never know how that ball is really going to shoot.

As for plunger action, almost all my fairly recent tables have a player=adjustable launch speed, which with fine tuning should do away with your gripe.

 

[druadic]

John, agreed. You have. It works great too.

 

[sleepy]

Perhaps it was an oversight.
Or a coincidence.
This matter of thanking other people, perhaps on the basis of Status.
I don't care if I am thanked if and when somebody needs information about ball size or methods or anything that I might be able to help, but I do have a gripe when people ask and then openly thank somebody else for replying after the correct answer is posted, and particularly after starting this thread just the other day.
What is this, a sitcom?

http://www.vpforums.org/index.php?showtopic=12945&st=0

Are we in the wrong joint?

 

[tiltjlp]

Perhaps it was an oversight.
Or a coincidence.
This matter of thanking other people, perhaps on the basis of Status.
I don't care if I am thanked if and when somebody needs information about ball size or methods or anything that I might be able to help, but I do have a gripe when people ask and then openly thank somebody else for replying after the correct answer is posted, and particularly after starting this thread just the other day.
What is this, a sitcom?

http://www.vpforums.org/index.php?showtopic=12945&st=0

Are we in the wrong joint?

Now, I don't know if you're referring to me not replying to your post over there or not:

Kicker1.CreateSizedBall (10)


This is great, and I don't mean to push my luck, but would it be possible to add a Kicker.Radius function?
The ball is definitely good, but balls larger than a 44 radius will not be caught or destroyed by the 50-size Kickers while smaller balls may look unusual.

A workaround for smaller balls would be to use a Hidden Kicker and a picture for the Kicker's visibility.

but since I seldom use visible kickers, and almost never use kickers as kickers, but more as the old gobble hole, I didn't see where it actually applied to my needs. But I'm sure there have been times I should have thanks you and didn't, so thanks Sleepy.

 

[sleepy]

Just so you know, the Kicker is needed to create a different ball size. Making a smaller ball can only be done with a Kicker at the present time. Plungers should be enabled to make different sized balls, but I guess not for now.

I was cheesed, but not for myself. I am concerned when others are thanked instead of the first respondent with the correct answer because doing so is an excellent way to lose contributing forum members, and we've seen several helpful people leave because they have nothing left to do while those whom they helped gave credit to somebody else which only encourages the feeling that we should all just leave matters to the experts if and when they are available to answer the questions while the rest of us bow out gracefully and hold our silence.

But that makes for a very empty community with few threads.

 

[druadic]

Just so you know, the Kicker is needed to create a different ball size. Making a smaller ball can only be done with a Kicker at the present time. Plungers should be enabled to make different sized balls, but I guess not for now.

I was cheesed, but not for myself. I am concerned when others are thanked instead of the first respondent with the correct answer because doing so is an excellent way to lose contributing forum members, and we've seen several helpful people leave because they have nothing left to do while those whom they helped gave credit to somebody else which only encourages the feeling that we should all just leave matters to the experts if and when they are available to answer the questions while the rest of us bow out gracefully and hold our silence.

But that makes for a very empty community with few threads.

Sleepy;

I remember when we worked on the ball tracking demo. I suppose someone else did this but I just wanted to make a demo that folks could share. We did this along with Rascal. Of course I was told flat out that it's been done already and that person should get credit. That's fine, but where is the demo for it? I didn't see it. Did you? I now get where you're coming from.

This is why I usually don't post much. I will when needed if I download a table someone else has done and leave feedback. Not much else.

If I can share things, I do unlike my past in VP. I wish I could thank everyone who has contributed to VP. Of course, many things I haven't seen or used so I can't keep track of it all to give proper credit where it's due.

Of course you're right, MANY VP authors or contributors have left the scene. I've not seen Apoc, Plumb, Fixx, VERY LITTLE of Kinsey, Gottlieb, Stein and many other past VP members. Were they chased off? More than likely. Of course the past is past, but do I miss those guys. It was a TON of fun then. I think things have really stagnated in the VP realm when it comes to having 100 or so people in a chatroom or over 500 members all at once in the forum and posting constantly to a specific thread. Oh well, those days are over and the future must go on.

I'll keep making tables but can't promise much posts after I make something because I always have something on my "plate" sort to speak. I'm always doing WIP in VP. Everyday I work on something. I steer clear of ANY add ons for VP. I've tried FP and didn't care for it - graphics do not make a game; gameplay does. It's why I try to add so many options in flipperless coin op releases. It's nice to able to choose this and that to make a game have more replay value. Most folks know I started doing this when VP first was going and all the folks out there started to jump on the VP "bandwagon". The options make for a better game to me. The more tough the game is, the more I'd like to play it and I'm more determined to play the crap out of it to win. Of course, many games don't need these options.

Anyway, I do miss the "old days" of VP where folks went hog wild with the new toy Randy Davis gave to us. Do not get me wrong; even today things are just as fun, but the lack of enthusiasm makes me wonder if folks are just in it for graphics or gameplay. You decide. I like both when I play a game, but if I had to decide between graphics and gameplay, graphics can go jump out the window.....

One of the greatest PC game makers in the world called Infocom only used words/text to describe their game worlds. What they had to say was; "Every person paints a different picture of their world in their minds. Text help describe this best. Let the player paint the picture in his mind and we have given them the description. You now have the entire world in sight." Excellent words for the most amazing game company that ever existed on the planet. (RIP Infocom)

To this day, I pay Infocom games. I even play the first four Wizardry games. Why? Good graphics? Nope. Gameplay? YOU BETCHA! No other game in the world can compete with Infocom's text adventures and Sir Tech's Wizardry series. NONE. :) Infocom text games have no graphics and Wizardry 1 -4 have 16 colors. I'm not choosy. I just want some damned good gameplay. If you'll notice when you play either company's games, you have TONS of OPTIONS to choose from

Thanks for the posts guys.

druadic

PS: Ever notice how much more feedback I get for posts are over here than VPF? I don't understand it but of course I do post more over here. I do like VPF very much, but over here there seems to be more of VP going on. Tell me if I'm wrong. Don't think so though. I've also noticed the downloads for flipperless / puzzle / arcade are downloaded 75% more here than at VPF. I don't understand why but I'm glad to be getting back to my flipperless WIP. Had enough with flippered tables for awhile now. I have one more flippered table to be done but that will wait and will be my last one.

ALSO: Sleepy, you've been a treasure trove of info for me. If it wasn't for your guidance with Rascal with the ball tracking demo I could have never figured it out. THANKS! :)

 

[tiltjlp]

Will, the main reason you don't get many replies at VPF is because you don't make VPM tables. Not complaining, just stating the facts as I see them. Add to that you make flipperless non VPM games, so most folks at VPF don't even look at your posts and threads. I figure they're losing out on some really great, challenging stuff, but that's life. Now, if you were to add a looping ramp that awarded a million points, and flippers, to a flipperless game, then they might notice.

 

[druadic]

Will, the main reason you don't get many replies at VPF is because you don't make VPM tables. Not complaining, just stating the facts as I see them. Add to that you make flipperless non VPM games, so most folks at VPF don't even look at your posts and threads. I figure they're losing out on some really great, challenging stuff, but that's life. Now, if you were to add a looping ramp that awarded a million points, and flippers, to a flipperless game, then they might notice.

It will be a COLD DAY IN HELL before I release a VPM table with flippers. I'm done with flippered tables for at least 6 months until get some good flipperless tables done. Too many real pin machines to make and have fun with. Glad I don't have to redo Little Joe or Boomerang. I would freaking pull my hair out if I had to do one more flippered table.

No, you're not complaining and that's why we get along - we know each other quite well. You're the only person in VP I've ever called on the phone.

No, it's just rediculous that they don't give these REAL machines a chance. If it wasn't for "pin machines" pinballs wouldn't exist. They don't see that either. Doesn't surprise me in the least. I have two awesome flipperless machines being done right now and one I still have to fix. They'll be along soon - I hope.

Thanks John.

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