Flipper Techniques (tricks) in Future Pinball

[AnonTet]

But don't dis-respect all that have been before and those still active the do.
Especially the one's that are much smarter than you!, cheers!

Your language alone is disrespecting everyone that reads your posts.

I never said I was smarter; the code isn't actually mine so once again you are still talking about what you don't know (which seems to be recurrent) and obviously, still dismissing what was written before on purpose trying to divert the conversation.

You keep wanting make a point on proving why you shouldn't be included. Which is just sad.

And obviously if I was smarter this had been done a long time ago, proving I'm not.

 

[NitroNimbus]

Your language alone is disrespecting everyone that reads your posts.

I never said I was smarter; the code isn't actually mine so once again you are still talking about what you don't know (which seems to be recurrent) and obviously, still dismissing what was written before on purpose trying to divert the conversation.

You keep wanting make a point on proving why you shouldn't be included. Which is just sad.

And obviously if I was smarter this had been done a long time ago, proving I'm not.

Yep!! that will do little piggy... That will do.
You are such a smart little piggy.... That will do..
YOU WIN!!
Winner, Winner chicken dinner!

WTF? I though I was going to get bacon!
Nope, sorry it is chicken again!
What a disappointment!!!

 

[NitroNimbus]

Sorry did I stutter... must of been clucking!!
What a disappointment!!!

 

[TerryRed]

OK... enough of this crap!

This post was about DF2, and flipper tricks... and it has turned into constant misunderstandings or assumptions of what one person said or what another person meant or through mis-translations and has turned into ridiculous essays of non-sense.

If you have nothing positive or constructive to add specifically about the posted topic... then simply stop.

Grow up gentleman!

 

[NitroNimbus]

OK... enough of this crap!

This post was about DF2, and flipper tricks... and it has turned into constant misunderstandings or assumptions of what one person said or what another person meant or through mis-translations and has turned into ridiculous essays of non-sense.

If you have nothing positive or constructive to add specifically about the posted topic... then simply stop.

Grow up gentleman!

Could not agree more!
Let's hope DF2 is the miracle cure to all our FP problems as promissed.
It's a bit hard to tell at this stage, lets hope they have cracked the physics code.
If they have I will be the first to apologise for my ignorance.
But who's code is it?, cheers!

 

[TerryRed]

I think DF2 is an "option" for those who prefer to try to get a FP table to play more "realistically" similar to how real pins work.

Some may still prefer how DF1 plays....some may prefer DF2.

Some prefer a fast table. Some prefer a slow table. Some want flippers with realistic dynamic coils.... some want flippers that are easier to make shots with for certain tables... some want the slings to be less sensitive... some want rubbers with better behavior... some want flipper rubbers to be super bouncy... others don't want that. Some want a table to play exactly like the real version... some couldn't care less.

Sometimes a table that plays more realistically will be more difficult to play. An example is FX3 tables. The original "Zen" physics was very simple and easy to play and was almost "on rails".... whereas their newer arcade physics for Williams tables were much more realistic, but much more difficult to play.

I don't know if everyone will automatically like DF2 for all tables... but those who want the many significant changes it brings, and understand how to use it will certainly enjoy it immensely.

The code was JLou's contribution that evolved from similar methods that nFozzy used for VPX, as well as mixing it with some bits of code from DF1 I think... with lots of testing from AnonTet, and others contributing.

 

[NitroNimbus]

I think DF2 is an "option" for those who prefer to try to get a FP table to play more "realistically" similar to how real pins work.

Some may still prefer how DF1 plays.

Some prefer a fast table. Some prefer a slow table. Some want flippers with realistic dynamic coils.... some want flippers that are easier to make shots with for certain tables... some want the slings to be less sensitive... some want rubbers with better behavior... some want flipper rubbers to be super bouncy... others don't want that. Some want a table to play exactly like the real version... some couldn't care less.

Sometimes a table that plays more realistically will be more difficult to play. An example is FX3 tables. The original "Zen" physics was very simple and easy to play and was almost "on rails".... whereas their newer arcade physics for Williams tables were much more realistic, but much more difficult to play.

I don't know if everyone will automatically like it for all tables... but those who want the many significant changes it brings, and understand how to use it will certainly enjoy it immensely.

The code was JLou's contribution that evolved from similar methods that nFozzy used for VPX, as well as mixing it with some bits of code from DF1 I think... with lots of testing from AnonTet, and others contributing.

Cool!, I like a fast table.
Please send me a link to a DF2 table so I can compare, cheers!

 

[NitroNimbus]

@AnonTet ,@JLou5641
If DF2 is so good, can you please let me know what table is available for download with DF2.
It is hard to have a perspective how good and brilliant DF2 is!!
So the talking is over, put up or shut up!!
Stop posting here, cheers!

 

[Paolo]

The condition of a table, which I prefer to call the gameplay of a table, is determined by physics!
a fast or slow or realistic gameplay is always determined by physics,in a table!

df1 and df2, are tools, codes or methods (call them whatever you/prural want) that relate to the fins(flippers)

certainly it is not up to me to explain what are the differences between df1 and df2, but I can certainly say that their function is very much linked to physics in the way it is configured.

as far as I'm concerned I have my own vision of gameplay for my tables, which I call "Optimal Physics"neither too fast nor too slow,which is based on the balance of objects,

the physics is 80% determined in XML, and how you/prural configure it.

if you/prural want a fast table, there are three things you/prural need to consider.....for me

slope,mass/gravity and the friction of the playfield


edit:
for realistic physics, the concept is very different, long to explain.

 

[shiva]

@NitroNimbus This thread is about advances in flippers for FP. Therefore, if they want to tell everyone about their physics they can. Everyone has their own opinion, as rightfully stated by Terry, on what kind of physics they want to see, but please keep it civil. Ultimately, the end goal is to improve FP. The only DF2 game out so far that I could find was Seawitch

People have their own opinions, and it is up to them to decide if they like the newer physics or not themselves. When Jungle Girl releases it's new update, it will replace the old DF1 physics with DF2. Players will be able to use either that or shivaFlippers v3.2, depending on what kind of game style they want.

 

[NitroNimbus]

Ok, I took it to far!!
They both told me not to post here again and I was accuse of running away!
That an oxymoron.
It is always down to personal preference for sure.
We can all hitch a ride from a donkey, but who is really pulling the cart, cheers!

 

[JLou5641]

@NitroNimbus

To be clear, DFv2 not release yet.. So there is not table yet with the Release Candidate / Final version.

DFv2 permit to make more close to real gameplay, that was not possible before with DFv1.
But where DFv2 is a big step foward for FP, it's the aimaing and trajectory correction wich resolved the trajecory issue due to geometry calculation error ( and why Ravarcade made FlipperExt ).
We also added a Fall off Factor for bouncing, so no need more the Rav' bounce code.
We added some stuff that missing since ever...
All new option are customisable as you want for your preference:

EOSTorque = 0.25                     ' Default: 0.25    ' Percentage from max omega for EOS Angle - Defaut : 0.25 ( 25% of defined Omega)
EOSAngle  = 2                        ' Default: 2        ' End Of Stroke angle ( angle range where the Omega is reduced )
    
BaseOmega = 55                        ' Default: 45        ' Flipper Strength near the base
TipOmega = 37.5                          ' Flipper's strength at the tip
    
LiveCatchDifficulty = 2            ' Default: 0        '  Set Difficulty for Livecatch. 0 = Easy; 10 = Hard
    
SwingAngle = 48                                             ' Must be set like flippers swing angle in FP editor.
AimRange = 0                                                 ' Can be compare to a FOV for FPS or Race Sim. It make the range of your shot more close from base to tip with negative value, or more wide with positive value ( In degrees ). Note the base is like origin and tip is the max range which moving. Ex: -10° mean shot from base not change, shot from middle take -5°, and tip -10°
AimOrientation = -10                                        ' set up your aiming Orientation from default. Ex: -10° mean all shot are closer from 10°
    
FlipperBouncingCoeff = 0.65                ' Default: 0.85    ' Bounce Coefficient for Flipper rubber. Higher has more bounce effect
FlipperBouncingFallOff = 0.30            ' Default: 0.25    ' Bouncing Falloff factor. Reduces BouncingCoeff depending of ball speed and energy.
                                                                ' 0 = same bouncing coeff effect on every hit. ::: 0.5 = 50% less when ball velocity reach 1000mm/s or over. ::: 1 = 100% energy is absorb when ball velocity reach 1000mm/s or over
FlipperStaticFriction = 0.55                ' Default: 0.75    ' Flipper friction applied to static ball
FlipperKineticFriction = 0.35            ' Default: 0.6     ' Flipper friction applied to moving ball

SlingShotThreshold = 3     'Slinghshot sensivity

And so, it's not the DFv2 that make table arcadish au realistic... it's you, how you set DFv2 and your XML.. But now, we have the choice, fun or realistic?

I want to thank you very much @GeorgeH , @TerryRed for our discussion and debate that help me on choice to do for DFv2, to make DFv2 great for all
Thanks to @Gimli , @ravarcade for their help on Math and BAM function..

And for sure, my partner @AnonTet wich make a ton of test and feedback... maybe more than 2000 exit and relaunch, he pushed me more each time to make it better or have new idea.

So @Paolo i'm so disappointed from your answer.. you was the guy with I take the most of time to help you, to answer you. You ask me to make you a special version before the end, you ask me to help you... That i do... With Anontet we explain you the same things several times, but each time you don't or won't understand i don't know..
You don't know my life... you don't know the time i needed to take for you at moment i can't... 90% of DFv2, it's a time I take at my lunchbrake at work.. Because when i'm at home i prefer to take time with my beloved family.

DFv2 is not for me.. Is for all.. So sorry, if you have never see new tools from Rav' like Rotation Charts, what i said is not false... But you have probably more time than me if you can make entire table.. So like you, some of you ( not all ) could potentialy search for it before how it work... That is not the case.

So now debate is closed.. Stay tune guys, let us work with our free time... We planned to release it very soon, but we are buzy.. So we have delayed.

Greatings,

JLou

 

[JLou5641]

And by the way.. I have in my mind, and I begun to make new physics for Playfield... I'm not sure i still want it now

 

[NitroNimbus]

@JLou5641 and @AnonTet.
I know there is no DF2 table available yet.
So what ever we argued about, it is mute.

@AnonTet decided to attack, this is not a good or the best policy.
Yep!! since I know now he dosn't like profanity... Fuck you!! @AnonTet
Anytime you ready for a spanking, bitch...

You made a statement that I did not agree with? Hence my reply...
Now you have listed all that help in this process, we are all good!!
Cheers!

 

[JLou5641]

Stop @NitroNimbus please!

First, for me too, i tought you attack me.. So stop your profanity and agressivity please

@AnonTet apologize on preivous post... And i can certifiate he is a great open minded. So please.. Come back to calm

 

[NitroNimbus]

I like how I am made the bad guy out of all of this?

Not taking you own advice to use some manners...
Like if nobody here doesn't know how far physics has come or dfv1 where dfv2 is based on.

But here you are, disrupting everything again deturping words for your own interest of provoking and then run away from conversation.

As you wrote to me once, why don't you try to do better? And here we are and I did publish 2 tables... More to come, hopefully.

Just stop.

@AnonTet insulted me first, guess I just have to be like the rest.
Not have an opinion or a back bone.
Stick my head is sand and say goonie goo goo!
And run away!!
Nope Fuck you @AnonTet, if you had half an idea it would be dangerous.
Luckily you surround yourself with people smarter than you.
You are not important enough for me to wright to you "why don't you try to do better?"
Unless it was a passing comment.
Maybe you should get your head out of the clouds, cheers!

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

I like how I am made the bad guy out of all of this?

@AnonTet insulted me first...

At the risk of getting drawn in to the wildfires,
what was the tremendous insult, if I may ask?

 

[HZR]

its all in how a person interprets the post. thats why email etc can cause issues.
everyone here has been pretty cool to me, i did feel slapped from my first slamtilt conversion post . but who cares, i thought it was funny.