For some reason.....

[druadic]

For some reason I feel more welcome over here than at VPF.

I can't understand it, but I feel more at ease here. Any1 else feel this way?

It almost feels like ShivaSite here. Dunno. Maybe I'm just a nutcase.

Let me know how u feel about PN.

d

 

[tiltjlp]

For some reason I feel more welcome over here than at VPF.

I can't understand it, but I feel more at ease here. Any1 else feel this way?

It almost feels like ShivaSite here. Dunno. Maybe I'm just a nutcase.

Let me know how u feel about PN.

d

Yes sir, you are a Nut Case. But yes, the Spirit of shiva still echoes here. I think the difference here is that we're all more or less on even footing here , while at VPF there seems to be a feeling that there are a few Experts, and then the rest of us. Not saying it's really that way, just that it feels like that. But yes, you are a Nut Case, my friend.

 

[druadic]

Thank God! I'm glad I still have my insanity after all! :)

I feel like this place is better suited for us flipperless pin freaks bud.

I feel totally overwhelmed by VPF; I know Noah and many others welcomed me over there but I for one find it much more peaceful over here.

Thanks for the reply John. Appreciated.

Will
aka druadic

 

[faralos]

I am one of the few who bounce between the two, but the thing about over here, is first, there are some who never did the jump so they stayed here, second, this site is older so more 'rooted', three, this site you can talk a tad free-er, hard to explain, you still can't swear I don't think, but other little things as well. four, Their download base when it works for me is full of cool things that vpf.org still does not have. Five, because of some not wanting or finding the need/time or whatever reason, I Do post on both sites with anything and everything. Especially when I finish a table. they all go up on both sites.

 

[sleepy]

Let's just say the talk is cooler at the .org and move on.


The .org is somewhat more interested in promotion and expansion, even if only to promote the cause of pinball, however, the feeling to me is similar to the days of Black moving toward a product while staying aloof a bit. There is also a reluctance to answer technical questions about the program, like when I asked for the name(s) of the flipper files in the VP source code. I got no answer. This was at the same time Mitchell was trying to compile VP and the .org response was pretty much "to forget about it Mitchell".

This is nothing new however. I remember asking Randy in the old days about syntax and he only pointed to the generic MS VBS Docs as an answer.
The MS docs of course did not apply to VP specific methods.

I cannot help but wonder what becomes of the .org if and when donations drop out.
Like the FP forum maybe?

 

[Shockman]

Some people cringe when I use the term niche, but it really is not a bad word so I don't understand that response. I am also accused of theorizing conspiracy when I use such terms, but there is indeed a focus on a niche there. That is not a problem in and of it's self, but the niche is such a minuscule part of the user base. And I know I am not the only one that picks up on the condensation that occurs with people once they have a cabinet and are using the new and only version in a some respects there, version of VP which has dropped it's roots and become focused on that niche.

Here it is about community, not website. About VP, not about what VP might be. It's about the possibilities, not the direction. It about getting VP to fit our needs, not needing to fit it. It's about VP8 is dead, long live VP8, not VP8 is dead period.

 

[druadic]

Let's just say the talk is cooler at the .org and move on.


The .org is somewhat more interested in promotion and expansion, even if only to promote the cause of pinball, however, the feeling to me is similar to the days of Black moving toward a product while staying aloof a bit. There is also a reluctance to answer technical questions about the program, like when I asked for the name(s) of the flipper files in the VP source code. I got no answer. This was at the same time Mitchell was trying to compile VP and the .org response was pretty much "to forget about it Mitchell".

This is nothing new however. I remember asking Randy in the old days about syntax and he only pointed to the generic MS VBS Docs as an answer.
The MS docs of course did not apply to VP specific methods.

I cannot help but wonder what becomes of the .org if and when donations drop out.
Like the FP forum maybe?

Sleepy;

Talk is cooler over there? I get nearly NO posts. Here I've been bombarded with them. What gives???

As for answers to questions, I've learned through years of programming since the Apple //e that the best policy is to crack a proggie and read the code. I've also downloaded a few items on Visual Basic itself and it is quite interesting as I have a lot of background working with this since the 1980's. It's nearly the same. At the age of 11, I made my first adventure game on the Apple //e called Waxworks (from the movie) and it was a self booter. I miss that game A LOT. Then Pascal and Assembler came along and I learned those. Not easy, but not as tough as folks think it is. Just takes A LOT of trial and error. I even landed in an old "cracking/hacker" magazine called Computist, issue 80!

Your best bet via Visual Basic is to hit Google and bring it up. That's where I got much of the info I wanted to know but still I am missing a lot more I would like to find when I have time.

Anyway, that's really all I have to say. Google is an amazing tool for those wanting info for Visual Basic. Everything in Visual Basic SHOULD work via Visual Pinball even though Visual Pinball is limited to certain code.

Just trial and error. It's like mathematics.

"Why does 2 plus 2 equal 4? ANSWER = Because it does".

Will
aka druadic

 

[cyclone12]

Talk is cooler over there? I get nearly NO posts. Here I've been bombarded with them. What gives???

It seems the majority over there doesn't really care about Flipperless tables or Desktop tables for that matter. If you don't have a Cabinet, Hyperpin, UVP, etc, etc, & are not into the FS tables, you are pretty much out of the loop. At least that's how it seems to me.

 

[druadic]

Talk is cooler over there? I get nearly NO posts. Here I've been bombarded with them. What gives???

It seems the majority over there doesn't really care about Flipperless tables or Desktop tables for that matter. If you don't have a Cabinet, Hyperpin, UVP, etc, etc, & are not into the FS tables, you are pretty much out of the loop. At least that's how it seems to me.

Clyde;

I think you're right. I'm kind of glad I did come back to PN. Feels like the old times once again since I came back here

Will
aka druadic

 

[sleepy]

I'm sorry. When I say "it's cooler over there", I mean it's sometimes cold.

 

[tiltjlp]

I'm sorry. When I say "it's cooler over there", I mean it's sometimes cold.

Maybe even frigid, at least if you don't make VPM tables. It's been years since we were Flipperless, but I think our roots run deep.

 

[druadic]

Maybe even frigid, at least if you don't make VPM tables. It's been years since we were Flipperless, but I think our roots run deep.

I have A TON of VP tables I can do BUT most of the PF's have to be redrawn or started from scratch! No big deal; I like to redraw these. Just like I did with "Hit The Goal", "Hi Lo" and "Bonanza".

I have no desire to use VPM, FP or any of those other proggies. I won't touch them.

Time for us flipperless folks to make a DEEP IMPACT on the VPF landscape!

Will
aka druadic

 

[druadic]

I'm sorry. When I say "it's cooler over there", I mean it's sometimes cold.

Sleepy;

I agree. There are a few folks over there that seem nice but the majority are not.

d

 

[tiltjlp]

Sleepy;

I agree. There are a few folks over there that seem nice but the majority are not.

d

I don't think it's a matter that anyone's not friendly on purpose. I just think that VPF, old and new, have always been more about VPM, and we've always been more of a VP site. And just maybe with both of us back working on flipperless, interest in older, vintage stuff will start to grow a bit.

 

[bob]

This is place is great! Thanks Jon!

VPF.Org is also a great place.

I mostly only download JPSalas' tables. They play great on my pc and he is a genius with VP. If he made a Flipperless table, it would probably knock your socks off.

I never load a VP8 table anymore, things have changed for me. I don't have a cabinet, I don't want one, but I have a cheap $199 WS monitor that I turn to play tables. I just uploaded this table to VPF, this screenshot is exactly how it looks on my monitor. A simple table, only a few people will download it, but it's fun to play in a vertical position. People are excited about vertical tables, the playing experience is only going to get better. I can also make a Horizontal table with the usual backglass to properly fit the WS monitor when it's in its normal position too. I do have a 4x3 monitor, but I prefer bigger and higher resolution.

I've made a few new friends at VPF.Org and overall Noah has done a great job. It's almost a whole new community over there compared to the old VPF. It's not his fault or the forums fault as to how welcome you feel over there, it would be your own fault. You can't go back to the year 2000, times change, people change, software changes, hardware changes.... But I remain the same. :)

Hi Clyde!

 

[tiltjlp]

I will agree with you Bob that the new VPF is a huge improvement over the old VPF when I left. But then I had lots of issues with AJ back then, as many others did, if I recall correctly.

 

[Shockman]

2000 or 2010 though, it is the same life and the same run. It is the same community, and the same interest.
VPF is different but it is ran the same. As to who's fault a person might not feel welcome depends entirely on the reasons for it.

.org is dynamic and .com was static for the most part, as a website, I'm talking, not as an administration, as they are/were too dynamic as administrations in my opinion. I certainly do not do anything to feel unwelcome there, except belong to the .com and discover a work around for the flipper/ball problem years ago. And even if reality did not exist and the things they said about it was true, and I was the reason that VP was not fixed, it's better to loose balls than have instant flipper return, and having it about equal to common flip speeds makes the return instant, but not the flip, and that it was the worse thing to ever happen to VP, etc. etc. etc. then it would still not be my fault that I was not welcome there.

I'm sorry to tell you Bob, but the community is never going to be people that have the same ideas, like the same things, or think along different lines, no matter how many of you do make that adjustment. And it is not their fault. Give people some credit, even people that do not agree with that. If it was their fault that they do not feel welcome there, I think they would be aware of that.

 

[Shockman]

I will agree with you Bob that the new VPF is a huge improvement over the old VPF when I left. But then I had lots of issues with AJ back then, as many others did, if I recall correctly.

Even when you left, AJ was not a factor. He paid the bills and kept it on line, but was not a factor in day to day administration. He was a good man, and restored my account twice. Once when the admin. told me that if I could get in touch with him (something they of course could not do) and he would let me back, I could stay. I did, AJ restored my account to active, and I was banned as soon as he was gone again. He was not persistent though and was hard for even me to get in touch with, especially during the time it was impossible for his administration to get in touch with him. I think he was disenchanted because of his staff, and they all turned out exactly the same as the last. I'm surprised .com existed as long as it did. I once calculated that if each member donated half as much money as I did, that he would be over $1,000,000 dollars. And if that was the case we would still have a VPF.com. Paul has sponsors though, and a store, as well as donations, so in that respect they are different.

 

[bob]

It's not the same community. Look at the screen names over there, very few active members from the past. It's not really the same interest for everyone either.... You have FP, VP, VPM, Originals and 2 guys that like bagatelles. :) You are free to post just about anything you want over there if you go about it in a proper way.

Yes, a guy like Destruk could ALWAYS say whatever he wanted, he is the BIG DOG. You, on the other hand, come with a lot of baggage, so you can't post whatever you want and get away with it. Is this equal or fair? Let's just say you both earned your level of acceptance over the last 10 years.

Same ideas? Noah and Destruk are doers. They want something, they do it. Most members are just full of suggestions, but never do anything but make suggestions. Wish in one hand and crap in the other hand and see which one fills up first.

AJ was a boob, SHIVA was a little s.

I'm here for pinball and fun. :)

 

[Shockman]

I understand you completely Bob, and I don't even disagree with the concept. I was reluctant to join VPF.org and was told that the past would not be a factor there though, so to use the past as baggage is nothing short of that assurance being false.

The faces of the community have changed, but in some cases only the names have changed, so it is not as different as you may think.

If you are talking about my suggestions, you are right. They were only suggestions and I lack the talent to make them real. I am not kidding. In my prime as a C++ programmer, I did not have the skill to debug others code, and had a hard enough time with my own. Debugging is by far the hardest part. The suggestion to debug is a tall order, but the suggestion was a damn good one. But to say that suggestions was the extent of my contributions to the community is disingenuous.

AJ may have been a boob, but he was not that way to me. And if I had his staff, I would have been an ass.

 

[tiltjlp]

Well, when I left, AJ was still popping in every 3 months or so, but never really doing much. And yes Bob, some of the names have changed, and it's still VPM. VP, Future Pinball, and two weird guys who like bagatelle and flipperless. But the bottom line is, it's all pinball, so I still don't understand the debates that still rage. And I'm not talking about VP 8.1 versus 9.09. Maybe it's just me but in many ways, nothing much has changed since I first showed up in 2001. I've decided to look forward and not behind, I sure wish everyone else would too.

 

[druadic]

It's not the same community. Look at the screen names over there, very few active members from the past. It's not really the same interest for everyone either.... You have FP, VP, VPM, Originals and 2 guys that like bagatelles. :) You are free to post just about anything you want over there if you go about it in a proper way.

Yes, a guy like Destruk could ALWAYS say whatever he wanted, he is the BIG DOG. You, on the other hand, come with a lot of baggage, so you can't post whatever you want and get away with it. Is this equal or fair? Let's just say you both earned your level of acceptance over the last 10 years.

Same ideas? Noah and Destruk are doers. They want something, they do it. Most members are just full of suggestions, but never do anything but make suggestions. Wish in one hand and crap in the other hand and see which one fills up first.

AJ was a boob, SHIVA was a little s.

I'm here for pinball and fun. :)

First off, I have the utmost respect for Brian. He has been there for me many times over the years with ideas and info that I never could have finished half of my tables. Same goes for tiltjlp.

As for Shiva, he has my most HIGHEST respect for just about everything. That man busted his balls to make one hell of a VP site. I still to this day will give him the respect he DESERVES. Bar none, JPH and Shiva are the two that actually saved VP from being thrown into the wayside thanks to AJ.

As for Noah, I have dropped my respect of him from all the posts I've read here. First, I do respect him for making VPF happen once again, BUT - using Pinball Nirvana and blatantly not putting up a link to here? That is in my opinion just downright a slap in the face of JPH. I for one Am glad I came back to PN and IMMEDIATELY felt right at home thanks to the posts. I didn't ask for them, but I post over at VPF I know a few people were kind enough to post. Here, they bombarded me with posts. What gives?

I still have respect for Noah and his hard work, but a notch has been removed from my belt for respect for him; using PN like he did. I never would have had the proof if it wasn't for a few concerned posters pointing me in the right direction.

As for the interview with Randy, JHC - I can understand it took work to do it but saying it is the property of VPF alone is pure bull----! That is utter nonsense. That's like me saying "don't put my WIP on VPM. It's only PN release allowed only".

Shiva, JPH and the rest of the old gang - I have the HIGHEST RESPECT for what you did and still to this day are concerned about via VP. Sometimes you have to look back in the past to make the future happen.....

d

PS: I wish I could just look forward John, but the fact of the matter is that people who crap on others need to get their asses slapped a bit. As I always say: "You want respect, earn it. I want it, I earn it". Works both ways. It's a fact of life. I will NEVER disrespect you John. You have been my pal from the beginning. I appreciate everything you have and may do for me in the future - just being my pal!

 

[tiltjlp]

First off, I have the utmost respect for Brian. He has been there for me many times over the years with ideas and info that I never could have finished half of my tables. Same goes for tiltjlp.

As for Shiva, he has my most HIGHEST respect for just about everything. That man busted his balls to make one hell of a VP site. I still to this day will give him the respect he DESERVES. Bar none, JPH and Shiva are the two that actually saved VP from being thrown into the wayside thanks to AJ.

As for Noah, I have dropped my respect of him from all the posts I've read here. First, I do respect him for making VPF happen once again, BUT - using Pinball Nirvana and blatantly not putting up a link to here? That is in my opinion just downright a slap in the face of JPH. I for one Am glad I came back to PN and IMMEDIATELY felt right at home thanks to the posts. I didn't ask for them, but I post over at VPF I know a few people were kind enough to post. Here, they bombarded me with posts. What gives?

I still have respect for Noah and his hard work, but a notch has been removed from my belt for respect for him; using PN like he did. I never would have had the proof if it wasn't for a few concerned posters pointing me in the right direction.

As for the interview with Randy, JHC - I can understand it took work to do it but saying it is the property of VPF alone is pure bull----! That is utter nonsense. That's like me saying "don't put my WIP on VPM. It's only PN release allowed only".

Shiva, JPH and the rest of the old gang - I have the HIGHEST RESPECT for what you did and still to this day are concerned about via VP. Sometimes you have to look back in the past to make the future happen.....

d

PS: I wish I could just look forward John, but the fact of the matter is that people who crap on others need to get their asses slapped a bit. As I always say: "You want respect, earn it. I want it, I earn it". Works both ways. It's a fact of life. I will NEVER disrespect you John. You have been my pal from the beginning. I appreciate everything you have and may do for me in the future - just being my pal!

You made some good points Will. I agree with you about shiva and JPH, as well as destruk. I'm not suggesting anyone forget what has happened in the past, only that we all try to put it behind us and move ahead. I was shocked to read some of the comments made by Noah, but there were a lot tossed back at him too. But in the end, if I'm ever forced to choose beween VPF and PN, it'll be PN. I just wish we all could work at being a bit more civil.

 

[druadic]

You made some good points Will. I agree with you about shiva and JPH, as well as destruk. I'm not suggesting anyone forget what has happened in the past, only that we all try to put it behind us and move ahead. I was shocked to read some of the comments made by Noah, but there were a lot tossed back at him too. But in the end, if I'm ever forced to choose beween VPF and PN, it'll be PN. I just wish we all could work at being a bit more civil.

John,

I agree Noah was also attacked as well. I do feel bad for him but honestly saying that an interview with Randy is exclusively for VPM is just silly. I can understand that taking something without asking also can be silly. Look what happened to IR Pinball and the tables I did. Leo was overboard with the sillyness he pulled; I literally told him ONE table of mine was a modded version which I wanted to have removed. So, like Leo can be; he goes nuts and deletes everything of mine there.

Funny thing is, I STILL to this day laugh at what he did. I thought Bob or Shockman were overboard but Leo was over the edge.

I hold nothing against Leo now for what he did. I gather he was really sick of all the BS that was going on back then. So be it. Nothing against you Leo.

Still I feel like a few folks are missing from all this. One is Kinsey. OMG. I gather she is long gone. PacDude is another. PacDude is the clone of Shockman bar none. Shocky, don't get me wrong - sometimes unloading excess baggage is the only way to cope. I know!

Still, I'll stick to PN - Pinball Nirvana seems to have that "old flair" that reminds me of when VP was still in it's infancy (VP6) and I realize those days are gone but I for one find comfort in it. GOD do I miss it. I don't miss a lot of the BS from back then though.

Anyway, back to my WIP.

d

I have one last comment....As for a link to PN via VPF.....I admire that you and JPH just don't care. It takes some "kahunas" for just letting bygones be bygones. I really feel what they did was a slap in the face but I for one find it totally commendable. My respect for tiltjlp and JPH for ignoring the ignorance!

SHOCKMAN - I'd appreciate it if you'd not tell Noah everything I post here. I don't know if it was you or Bob but that is totally uncool! Getting a PM from him via VPF is really uncool. I had to delete it; if you can vent so can I. Please don't do that again.

 

[Pop Bumper Pete]

Just passing through, but too soon...

...pfftt he left....