Respect & author's rights. What are those?

[Shockman]

Software?
That must be it.
Right.

A site that is COMFORTABLE with giving people PERSONAL reasons to be bitter sucks, and should not exist.

 

[bob]

The thing I like about this community is no one ever holds a grudge, I mean it's just so pleasant sharing something we all enjoy with each other and no one ever seems to be a whineyassed crybaby that just goes on and on for years, like the energizer bunny, about the same old shit.

 

[shiva]

Your right bob, it would be nice. I just mentioned what you said to Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and the pope, who are all visiting me at the present moment, and they all agree with you 100%.

My reasons may be personal, but bitter is not the word, its trust and betrayal that would be more suitable as words. I thought it was bitterness and acted accordingly, but like events in my real life, I understand it was different.

BTW, if it's the same old shit, and it is, don't you think that after all this time, someone would have at least done something about it and try and change it? The reason why it's still the same old shit is because nobody has bothered, it's still there, a great big steaming mass of it right in the middle of the carpet, yet everyone see's it, knows it's there, and just walks around it trying to ignore it instead of cleaning it up

 

[Shockman]

I was Fucked with over nothing, absolutely nothing. unless you think telling someone the like of Wanker to 'talk to the finger' is something. I fought for those years to have the staff there erase that mistake and told them I would N E V E R get over it if they did not. Look bob, pretend like you don't know if you want, but stay the fuck out of it in doing so. But in real life you do know all I ever asked for was to be treated the same as the next guy there. To have his hateful post edited as mine was. What happened? Nothing. They changed nothing, yet you think I should change how I feel about it?
Like I said. I told them how I felt about what they did, and about what they later refused to do.
I don't bring that up all the time. but the VPF does come up at times and I will always feel free to say what I think about them, the people that were running the place. If what I say about them never changes then what I feel about them hasn't changed. But all that was there knows damned well that I tried my best to put it to rest and how simple of a request it was, and yes, how right it would have been also. I hold a grudge yes, but I did not pick it up, I had it forced fed to me over many months.
I really would rather not talk about it here at this site, but I've read about all the crap like that above that I care to. Fuck bob what is it that erks you so about how I myself feel. That I express it or that you don't agree with it? I've read that same old whineyassed crybaby shit you're spewing over the years too. What is the difference?

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

hey, I had contributor status there, even though I said no, one day, it was suddenly there. I actually used it once, and told them to watch out for someone several days before what we now call the Aristocrat episode. Pretty much got ignored really, never bothered since then.

yea, i kind of remember that creep. unfortunately that was before i came on staff.

You didn't know AJ was part of that team? That's why you have that portal up there, when there are better alternatives.

no i didn't, and i thought you liked the portal. so how many alternate CMS's are there for vB, do you think?

I don't know everything either, PHP and MySQL have both recently gone to newer versions, and there's some huge changes. There's also Oops, SALT and AJAX that you need to know as well, because if you don't, and something happens, you are screwed. The thing is you have to know this stuff, "it's the future" and already heavily supported. You have to be a rocket scientist to understand it all.

i really don't know, but various people i do know have set up forums/CMS's in the last couple years and it sure didn't sound like they needed to spend enormous amounts of time on it wracking their brains. of course, VPF is a big site, maybe complicated to run. but a site owner who was willing to give it a fair go would be better than one who's absentee, no? even if they had to constantly ask for help on the vB forums or other places it would still mean a little progess i should think.

anyway shiva, if you are willing to take over the site or help in whatever way i'm glad to listen.

 

[shiva]

Anyone would be better than AJ. My 7 year old would be better, my cat would be better, the lint on my carpet would be better. I wouldn't though.

 

[bob]

Shocky! You are not included in the WAC's (Whiney Ass Crybabies) You are in the TFU's and I'm in the WGAF's

....besides, it was just a joke

 

[tiltjlp]

I can't really agree with you nic. Whoever would take vpf over would need to know just about everything, because there are no assurances that the help that would be needed otherwise would be provided. With all the pettiness and bitterness that has repeatedly resurfaced, there are so many fragile egos that keep getting bent out of shape. And I have to wonder if AJ would really give the site up, as he might need it to help pay the bills for his other sites. Or maybe it's an ego thing with him too. And BTW, although I'm not going to search for proof, AJ has asked for donations in the past, but most often requests have come from various staff members.

 

[shiva]

All software comes with a auto installer nic. That's the reason they are so heavily used, they were made to be used by everyone :)

It's been years, and not sure I remember correctly, but thinking about it, AJ was a member of vbportal for a while earlier, and vpf was a test site for it if I remember correctly. The sad thing is I wonder if they ever changed it over to the finished version or not. The Portals are all the same really, some better than others, they all look like PHP-Nuke websites out of the box though. VBPortal was php_nuke, just a shoehorned version (err, still is) so that's why I don't like it. Top heavy, inflexible, a HUGE amount of queries and server resources needed, and being very nuke based, insecure.

I should have been clearer that I was talking about the forum mostly, not the portal., I think your stuck with it now. You won't be able to upgrade the forum, as it's 2.0 specific, I'm not sure you can get a version for the newer series, (I've never even heard of a newer version on the main VB forums, or even any mention of vbportal in years that I can remember) and even if there was, it's still commercial, you would need to pay money for it, and I do know that there are free portals out there far better, at least from my viewpoint. The thing is the database that it uses. There's no way to translate the database to another system automatically that I know of. The forum would be okay, but the database that contains the portal, such as the link, dl and other specialized modules may not work at all, unless you manually rewrite and rename the database tables to match the new system, something I would recommend not to do unless you really know what you are doing.

As to what John just said, he would know, and so would I. When JPH was gone, I had to come in and help him fix quite a few things that he (and as politely as possible in putting it) buggered up. As easy as PostNuke is, it's still requires some knowledge at least, and if you ever saw the VBulletin admin control panel, you would see just how insanely complex these things actually are. It took me 10 minutes to install the new version of VB, it's taken me 3 weeks to get it to work the way I want it to work.

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

if we could bottle the pessimism, resentment and mistrust in this scene then i'm sure it would make a superb industrial solvent.

it's amazing the difference i see between this scene and another i belong to off-and-on, the armagetron (tron lightcycles) scene. in the arma scene the original developer manuel, just like randy, worked sporadically and had about a two-year retirement while some other people pushed the project forward. the big difference is arma is open-source and VP is closed. then when manuel finally came back he fit right into the existing circle of developers, all working on various aspects of the project together. sure there were a couple of ego-play power grab attempts, but those people flamed out over time, leaving the stable people to carry on the good work.

i've made some nice lasting friendships from that scene and when we hang out online we crack jokes, trade links, share games, trade strategy and mostly have a good time. talking to people in this scene is such an amazing contrast- it's usually filled with old wives gossip. someone's almost always pissed off at someone, or at VPF, or at VP or FP or just generally got their panties in a knot over something. and the list of people who like to rant or lecture others about how to behave never seems to dry up. when prez first joined the staff he would say "WTF is wrong with these people??" and i would say "nothings wrong with them- the scene is just complicated and has a lot of dramatic history which you don't know about". but i think prez was the smart one and i was the dumbass as usual. :)

EDIT: i see a new post by you shiva- thanks for the awesome information. i will link this thread to the candidates thread so that people can read what you have to say about the technical side. many thanks. :)

 

[shiva]

Just saw this nic. Forget about it. :)

You think it's bad now? Wait till the full impact of Ultracade (if they ever go through with it that is) and what kind of effect that will have. You know all about the problems we have, while the program was freeware, but now that there's money involved, and VP is now commercial then there will be even more bloodletting, and a lot more confusion.

The sharing of resources would go down from the small amount it already is, as people would be less likely to share them, and the attacks againest authors could be far more and far worse, as it's generally other authors that state negative comments in the first place, and now there will be actual reason for competition, as there are contacts on the line if ultracade is a success. Lets not forget that the TOS has been completely changed, when Randy licensed VP, he licensed away the freeware rights with it. It's now no longer freeware, it can be considered commercial, and that not only adds a variable to the ebay CD problem (it actually makes our case stronger to have them removed) but it also means that before, we made things available for free because that was part of the deal, now, there CAN be charges made available for it. I can, because of the change, and using as a example, take my latest table, and charge people for it if I should desire. I'm only selling a add-on just like people are selling plug-ins for photoshop.

 

[PacDude]

I'm starting to agree with Bob. You'd think we were on the UN Security council debating on how to best handle a country run by a madman that can't wait to get his hands on some nukes so he can wipe Israel off the face of the earth.... Naw. We're bitchin' about a silverball rolling on some waxed surface and who gets to run sites that have very SIMPLE discussion areas to talk about that damn silverball and how they apparently need to be Einstein to run a simple discussion forum and need to upgrade just to upgrade even if the discussion forum works perfectly fine and oh how things would be different if so and so was running VPF and then everyone would then magically get along and we'd all be shiny happy people and no one would bitch about ANYTHING ever again....

And Shiva, you can't charge anything for anything. NOTHING has changed on the user side of things. Randy licensed VP to Ultracade for commercial use and ONLY to Ultracade. Your end user license hasn't changed ONE BIT. I can't believe you would even suggest it has. Ultracade chooses who it wants to deal with to obtain tables from (and those peole work for Ultracade, the licensee at that point; they don't have their own license rights to VP itself). So there's not much to fight over, IMO. They may make their own tables in the future even as they will have more time once the initial product is out.

 

[kristian]

@nicolas: What is "Tron lightcycle" scene? Games? Or real live machines.... like this?

 

[Anthias]

Ahh Armegatron... I miss it a lot - have only played sporadically in recen tmonths. A great game, and allways will be :)

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

yea, that's it kristian. did you see the movie "tron" from the early 80's? the game is just like being inside the lightcycle escape scene. lots of quick tactics and reflexes needed- a real adrenaline rush, that's for sure. some simple screenshots:
http://armagetronad.net/screenshots.php

anthias- i haven't played for awhile but i hear they made custom-shaped rooms now and there's some new variation called "fortress" where people play in teams and one person from each side is the goalie. like soccer or hockey or something i *think*. check out some of the funky graphics sets people have been working on:
http://armagetron.icemans.net/

i gotta get back into that game! of course i'm on break for the last year-and-a-half because of my aging reflexes and they prolly haven't gotten any better since then, lol.

btw mrhide and SER from VPF really got into that game. SER also designed a series of moviepacks, some of them nudie.

 

[destruk]

Kristian, can that model be used/imported into Future Pinball? :)

 

[kristian]

Looks like a cool game. Sure I remember the movie....and the Sega arcade game....have played it on MAME. It has a lightcycle ride too....not in 3D tho'.

Strange that the movie and these games have become so "cult".....I never quite liked the movie when I saw it....hundred years ago...

Yea....that bicycle sure looks like something that Future Pinball could model....

 

[shiva]

Maybe PacDude, just expressing a concern is all, we won't really know unless there's a new version anyway, and could then see the TOS and look for changes. To be honest, I never read the present one, I just assumed like everyone that everything should be free. I will say though that the general mood of the community is starting to change slightly in the last little while since Ultracade came out.

Wasn't the lightcycle part of Tron just a game of snake really? You all know that one, your a snake, you eat apples and try not to get trapped by the trail you leave, though this would be two snakes in this case. Saw the movie as well, jeff Bridges... ugg. The computer game released a couple years ago had a light cycle game in it, but never played that one.

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

yea, the basic idea of lightcycles was snake without the apples played by two teams of three lightcyclists. each team would try to cooperate to box out the other team and destroy them one by one.

where arma took off is in introducing three new ideas- dissolving trails, acceleration by trail-hugging and rubber. also, the POV became a huge factor in the game- instead of the top- down, cartoony view you can get an "inside the bike" view as well as all kinds of variable camera perspectives. and then you have the glancing ability- you can look behind you or to either side. so it's turned from a cute little pixel-based game into a virtual reality game. it's one of the finest games i've ever played and a testament to what open-source can accomplish. i just wish i had discovered it when i was much younger, like 10-15 years ago. then again it didn't exist then. >_<

 

[ValamirCleaver]

show me someone here and now who is interested in helping the scene by hosting VPF- that's what will impress me. no offense intended, but talk is cheap.

we need someone who can do what's best for the scene. VP is still a great program and VPF is still a great site as far as i'm concerned.

I'm interested, I'd be willing to step up. I can afford to plunk down $200 a month; but I have no experience with messageboard software, I'm willing to learn though. Could you give me more details nicolas?

Tom

 

[tiltjlp]

show me someone here and now who is interested in helping the scene by hosting VPF- that's what will impress me. no offense intended, but talk is cheap.

we need someone who can do what's best for the scene. VP is still a great program and VPF is still a great site as far as i'm concerned.

I'm interested, I'd be willing to step up. I can afford to plunk down $200 a month; but I have no experience with messageboard software, I'm willing to learn though. Could you give me more details nicolas?

Tom

What a wonderful offer Tom. I hope all the details can be worked out. For stepping up in vpf's time of need I've rest your points to 5000. They aren't worth anything, but they are a symbol of the respect I have for you and your offer.

 

[ValamirCleaver]

What a wonderful offer Tom. I hope all the details can be worked out. For stepping up in vpf's time of need I've rest your points to 5000. They aren't worth anything, but they are a symbol of the respect I have for you and your offer.

I appreciate your vote of confidence, John. I just would hate to see such a central meeting place for Visual Pinball go by the wayside. It was bad enough when shivasite went offline and the great lost of the resources that were there. If I could do this to help keep VP vibrant, I'd be happy to do so. It would also be nice to make VPF more responsive to the membership at large.

Tom

 

[shiva]

Tom

You have to be one of the nicest person I ever have had the priveldge of coming across in the 10 years I have been on the internet. The community does not deserve people like you, people may think I am pointing a finger just at AJ, but in actual fact, we all are to blame for this, and as I learned today, we still can fix our mistakes, there's always time.
If you decide to do this, then not only will you have my support, but you will have my help if you ever need it, all you have to do is ask. I may be very busy with my personal life at the moment, in fact, I expect it to get a lot busier, but I will make the time.

Paul

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

great to hear, tom and shiva.

tom, i replied your Q's the first place i saw them, which was the thread over at VPF. feel free to reprint that response here and ask follow-up questions. i'm sure shiva can explain things much better than i can...

 

[Liteuser.]

That Tron lightcycle reminds me of Extreme G, a N64 game that I have not played in a long time. Cool game though.