WIP Recreation Tutorial Help BAM FP Schuss (Rally 1968) "Slingshot and Bumpers mode"

[Popotte]

@Popotte
you who have tried this table, they move or not, the "single leaf" in real table?

Rubbers are same as a "normal" table: just rebound.

 

[AnonTet]

yes I understand to what you are referring....and it would be another solution to have more bounce in
View attachment 23728

Exactly

 

[AnonTet]

@Popotte

Allow me a quick off topic question related to leafs
Leafs don't seem to have any real strength on their bounce back to push more than the normal bounce a rubber would provide. Am I right to assume they were used mostly to avoid unnecessary rubber stretch?

 

[Popotte]

@Popotte

Allow me a quick off topic question related to leafs
Leafs don't seem to have any real strength on their bounce back to push more than the normal bounce a rubber would provide. Am I right to assume they were used mostly to avoid unnecessary rubber stretch?

Just to score points.

 

[Paolo]

Rubbers are same as a "normal" table: just rebound.

Yes I know about the rubber, but I want to know about the post or stake...... the "single leaf"

Just to score points.

and a sound, but in the script.

It's probably because fp has never been updated again, but the rubbers (without "slingshot" and "single leaf") have been left behind, it is not possible to insert a sound in the editor, except for the slingshot, the "single leaf" it has no special properties in editor, but only in script, sound and score.
To have a greater bounce you/prural have to modify it in xml, which not everyone knows how to do, myself included.......
in short, it is not the best

 

[Paolo]

Ok,I am investigating to solve this mystery, in the JPsalas release, I noticed this comment


So I looked for this table, and there it is

The rubber seem (I can't see well) to have no "slingshot" and "single leaf",but they have a monstrous rebound elasticity.....
it's incredible.... look at what happens at 2:49, it's amazing this thing


EDIT:

retro-flip.com

 

[Popotte]

Concerning the JP's comment, read this comment -> Schuss comment
It's in german. It says than slingshots and bumpers react faster and are more powerfull than on a "normal" pinball and make less noise. It's true.
So (your video) as bumper is more powerfull, the ball is faster, so the rebound of rubber is more mowerfull.
A well tuned Fliptronic is very, very fast. But, infortunately, Fliptronic have a very poor gameplay.
Fliptronic are the first pinballs with a pop-up, star rollover, use circuit boards for the relays, ...

 

[Popotte]

Could be usefull

 

[Popotte]

This one too

 

[Popotte]

And an other

 

[AnonTet]

Thank for answering popotte.

So the bounce really is just from rubber. The tuning must have been nightmare on this tables!

 

[Popotte]

OK. For the moment I have the schematic and some other informations, so:

1) Left bumper, right slingshot and upper right lane are tied (lit-unlit)
2) Right bumper, left slingshot and upper left lane are tied (lit-unlit)
Every one point 1) lit 2) unlit and vice versa
When you hit the upper center star trigger, you lit the red bumper
Target 1 lit the corresponding light (middle of the PF) and lane marked 1
Target 2 lit the corresponding light (middle of the PF) and lane marked 2
Target 3 lit the corresponding light (middle of the PF) and lane marked 3
Target 4 lit the corresponding light (middle of the PF) and lane marked 4
When all target done, bonus (the last red light) is lit.
The two triggers star (near red bumper) down the pop saver

Misc: you can tuned the matchplay (normal setting 10% win - extra setting 20% win)

Some news soon (I hope).

 

[Popotte]

And for your information, Schuss had 3 versions: Italian, French and German...
Italian and German are about the same.
Previous pic I sent was for Italian (or German) version. French version was different. How? See the above pic.



Difference:
- french version: no match play lights. If you win, Chance (upper right on the pic) lighted and one free replay
- maybe other things but I have to see schematic

Now, tell me what version you want to do. If Italian (or German) version, I have to get (no problem) the Italian schematic.
But, if difference are minimal, maybe two tbles in one are possible...

Cheers

 

[Popotte]

Italian schematic received...
I'll have a look tomorrow.

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

Great thread and discussions, and a super-cool read!
Thank you @Paulo, @Popotte and others for all this.

I never saw a Rally machine in person... but pretty amazing to see how differently the mechs and PF objects worked. Sort of like how we imagined pinball machines worked when we were wee laddies, right?

Aye, JP-- I still don't totally understand Nixie Tubes, but I see now how they work in layers, thank you. Just the chemistry / electrical science behind them seems pretty fascinating, altho a bit over my head.

​

 

[Popotte]

Aye, JP-- I still don't totally understand Nixie Tubes, but I see now how they work in layers, thank you. Just the chemistry / electrical science behind them seems pretty fascinating, altho a bit over my head.

View attachment 23758

A little bit long but instructive:

 

[Paolo]

Hi....to all!!

Ok,here's what I understood, based on what Jpsalas also told me....I will be brief!!
@Popotte please (a thanks to your friends).....tell me if it is correct, or is there something to correct.

*trigger up: turn on the bump red
*2trigger near to bump red,turn off him,and maybe something else?
*each trigger (in table) and 2slingshot, in off, a score.....in on, another score,this is all clear on see the playfield.
*target 1or2 pop-up saveball on.
*target 3or4 pop-up saveball off.
*each target 1-2-3-4 bonus advance (I miss knowing how much score they give to a new ball)
*hit all target 1-2-3-4 shoot again light on
*lose the ball, all light in turn off (reset)

what I don't know:
*how much bonus is awarded when the last red light is turned on
*if the bonus is awarded during the game(through something), or on a lose ball (new ball)
* the bump green and orange,what are they doing,I mean.... a part from the score and that are on.....what?
*2trigger in loseball lane.....the green one (the first) is the drain, but the other the red one what does it do?
* such a table (fantastic for me) also has the matchplay???

PS:then as soon as it's all clear to me, we could talk about these other versions of the table......and I hope there isn't much to fix, because I almost did 65% in script

 

[Paolo]

about these two triggers, there is a line connecting them, so it is clear that they turn off the bump red,


if they also "off" the saveball pop-up, no problem.....so the pop-up who raises it?
maybe it is wrong that the pop-up is controlled by the targets 1-2-3-4 ? I hope your friends tell you something
maybe the trigger up also activates the pop-up? so everything would be connected
if this were the case, the pop-up would be very difficult to activate it only with that trigger up

 

[Popotte]

*trigger up: turn on the bump red -> OK then red bumper score 10
*2trigger near to bump red,turn off him,and maybe something else? -> No pop-up saveball off
*each trigger (in table) and 2slingshot, in off, a score.....in on, another score,this is all clear on see the playfield. -> No
Left bumper and right slingshot are tied, right bumper and les slingshot are tied,
Every single point, you change the lighting (left bumper right slingshot lit, right bumper left sligshot unlit and vice versa)
*target 1or2 pop-up saveball on. -> No
*target 3or4 pop-up saveball off. -> No pop-up saveball on
*each target 1-2-3-4 bonus advance (I miss knowing how much score they give to a new ball) -> OK - 1 000 points
Each target lit the corresponding lane
*hit all target 1-2-3-4 shoot again light on -> No
- Red light (Bonus) is lit and
- italian and german version: when you hit again a target, you win up to 4 extra ball or up to 4 000 points (adjustable)
see Italian/French BG near EXTRA BALL you have 0 1 2 3 4 5 -> number of replayable balls
- french version: when you hit again a target, you win 1 free replay
*lose the ball, all light in turn off (reset) -> OK


*if the bonus is awarded during the game(through something), or on a lose ball (new ball) -> at ball loose
*how much bonus is awarded when the last red light is turned on -> 5
* such a table (fantastic for me) also has the matchplay???
Yes, but it's depend:
- italian and german version: as usual
- french version: no matchplay displayed, but if you win (same calculation) CHANCE is displayed on BG -> Italian/French BG
You can choose a 10% or 20% win.
*2trigger in loseball lane.....the green one (the first) is the drain, but the other the red one what does it do? -> good question

 

[Popotte]

about these two triggers, there is a line connecting them, so it is clear that they turn off the bump red,


if they also "off" the saveball pop-up, no problem.....so the pop-up who raises it?
maybe it is wrong that the pop-up is controlled by the targets 1-2-3-4 ? I hope your friends tell you something
maybe the trigger up also activates the pop-up? so everything would be connected
if this were the case, the pop-up would be very difficult to activate it only with that trigger up

No, they turn off the trigger star light, not the bumper light.

 

[Popotte]

Upper centre lane and bottom lanes lights are controlled by the motor.

 

[Popotte]

And italian version have no match play (sorry)

 

[Popotte]

Italian version: red bumper always on

 

[Paolo]

ok, I do the Italian version, no match play.
In my opinion this table has the easiest rules in this world to make, but it could become difficult.......

OK then red bumper score 10

if off...but in on 100.

No pop-up saveball off

ok...who make it in on?

No

how no????? yes instead,for me.
I probably write badly, or you can't understand me



see these examples.......
triggers....100 if off, 300 if on
slingshot-left.... 1 if off, 10 if on

Left bumper and right slingshot are tied, right bumper and les slingshot are tied,
Every single point, you change the lighting (left bumper right slingshot lit, right bumper left sligshot unlit and vice versa)

not clear...sorry
just tell me... if i hit the bump orange(right), turn on the left slingshot light ??

*target 1or2 pop-up saveball on. -> No
*target 3or4 pop-up saveball off. -> No pop-up saveball on

ok again,tell me who make? pop-up on and off

*each target 1-2-3-4 bonus advance (I miss knowing how much score they give to a new ball) -> OK - 1 000 points

not clear...sorry
1000 each light.....so 5000 in total if I lose the ball
or only 1000 for 5 light....i.è. 200 for light always in lose the ball
but during the game if I turn on only one light. how much I receive?

Each target lit the corresponding lane

not clear...sorry
if you talk to me about "lane" I don't understand which lane it is .... it's simple JP, these targets have a color in their light


so for me, when i hit a target, put the case, the blue 3, turn on the blue lights of the table

*hit all target 1-2-3-4 shoot again light on -> No

ok,who make in on shoot again light?

- Red light (Bonus) is lit and

not clear...sorry
ok, these lights are the bonus


tell me how they light on.....and who?in what sequence and score.......please

*how much bonus is awarded when the last red light is turned on -> 5

I probably misspelled?
5???? maybe the light red?

 

[Paolo]

Italian version: red bumper always on

here, how difficult a simple table can become.......
then the playfield I have (the one made by JPsalas) is not the Italian version...or what is described here does not make sense