WIP Recreation Tutorial Help BAM FP Schuss (Rally 1968) "Slingshot and Bumpers mode"

[Paolo]

Hi to All!!

Bene!!....I don't know how many of you know the "Rally" tables, thanks again to @jpsalas , who created this table for vpx HERE, I decided to reproduce it in FP, but for now I don't want to talk about this table, but about the system I have created for the Slingshot.

The slingshots in FP, are not really great in terms of configuration, we know.....they are only available in the rubber, with two options (special attributes)
They lack many factors, you can only have one type of emkicker, with those two side posts, which sometimes are not needed, if you just put "single leaf" you don't get the push, and that's the problem I had in this table that used a slingshot with a single stake I came up with this solution, see the video

PS: for those interested I can explain how and what I did.

 

[AnonTet]

That table is wicked. Didn't knew it existed.

I'm pretty sure everyone would be interested in how you did it, why not just post it?

You're using custom emkicker like the usual zed's mod?

 

[Popotte]

Hello,
what you show are not slingshots but rubbers.
The slingshots are on each side of the flippers.
Problems with these tables (and all Rally's table from Rally Girl - Fliptronic serie) are:
- Nixies
- Slingshots
- Bumpers

 

[AnonTet]

Love nixie clocks - Still want one but they're expensive.

Your slingshot link points to nixies too.

Shapeable rubbers, of course, but you (edit: paolo ) mentioned that this table used slingshot with single stake hence I used the same word.

In any case, it would save a lot of questions if you (paolo) just say how you did it. In private if you wish.

 

[Popotte]

Just for your pleasure. Never released and it's the only copy

Psyche Delic

 

[AnonTet]

wow.
Worth preserving in virtual world for sure but I suppose resources will be hard to come by just as the machine itself

 

[Paolo]

what you show are not slingshots but rubbers.

what I show is a system that emulates the shingshot in this photo


for me this is a slingshot.

I don't know the real table, but in JPsalas version these are slingshot

The slingshots are on each side of the flippers.

it is not said that they are only by side flippers.

Problems with these tables

Yah!!

 

[Popotte]

I repeat (and I played all the Fliptronic serie except the last Flower's Child): For Schuss, you have just 2 slingshots (on each side the flippers). All the rest are rubbers.
Slingshots (all) are this form Slingshot
On your pic, you show single leaf for rubber.

 

[Paolo]

why not just post it?

what?the table or the system?

You're using custom emkicker like the usual zed's mod?

the stake is a target, modeled to emulate the expanding rubber, that is, that purple line, which for me is a slingshot .... with the pink mask (the collision) placed strategically which activates an invisible emkicker

 

[Paolo]

I repeat (and I played all the Fliptronic serie except the last Flower's Child)

JP......OK I understand you know the table.....But not me!!

but kindly when you write so
what you show are not slingshots but rubbers.
The slingshots are on each side of the flippers

please....explain better!!
you are referring to what you know in the real on, and which I, do not know, but writing like this it seems that you are referring to what I have done...like I'm showing something wrong for you.......
I have only reproduced what I see in the version of vpx made by JPsalas, and which I think is faithful to the real one, I have not found any video on the real table.

Slingshots (all) are this form Slingshot

and if you see the video I have done those too and very well.

On your pic, you show single leaf for rubber.

and I based on vpx version, these are slingshot.......

 

[AnonTet]

what?the table or the system?

the stake is a target, modeled to emulate the expanding rubber, that is, that purple line, which for me is a slingshot .... with the pink mask (the collision) placed strategically which activates an invisible emkicker

I meant the system. I got it now. it's similar to what zed kickers do but here you're using a target so you can have just one point for kicking the ball out. Nice workaround.

You'll post the table whenever you think it is ready. I just wait and hope you do it.

Until now I don't recall I've ever seen a table using this system and I never even came across the vpx version of the table!

 

[Popotte]

And concerning the slingshots, when they are hit, all the slingshot moves (and the same for bumpers).
I read a long time ago a notice that explains how rubbers and slingshots work. It's really not the same as "usual" pinballs.

 

[Paolo]

I got it now. it's similar to what zed kickers

I don't know how zed kickers are and how they work, what I know is what I also tried with kickers, but it didn't work, for various problems .... one of all and that you can only kick the ball from one point, instead with my solution ..... I'll explain it below

but here you're using a target so you can have just one point for kicking the ball out.

no just one point!!...... here's the beauty.......because he doesn't kick the ball only from one point of the rubber,that is the central part of the post or stake, no.....
I push the ball away from all over the rubber in green.......PS: if you look closely and very well, at the video, I hit the rubber both at the top, middle and below

Nice workaround.

Thanks....if you/plural(all) like it, could replace the traditional slingshot "which many don't like" with this system

 

[Paolo]

You'll post the table whenever you think it is ready. I just wait and hope you do it.

yes I will publish it, as soon as I finish the script

Until now I don't recall I've ever seen a table using this system

specify which system, or JP(popotte) might get mad

slingshot (the ones near the flippers) and bumpers, I made them see video, the others ... well, I leave them in slingshot forgive me JP(popotte)

I never even came across the vpx version of the table!

I recommend you to try the version of JPsalas

 

[AnonTet]

yes I will publish it, as soon as I finish the script

Nice :)

specify which system, or JP might get mad

I meant real table with a kicker behind the rubber but without the leafs. Lately some really unique stuff has been surfacing so why not this :)

If you allow me a suggestion, to keep the table faithful to the original but not losing a stronger push, why don't you use one of the rubber material in the XML to be extra elastic and use it on the rubbers? I use this trick on Black Knight (1980) upper playfield and it works well. And I could even go stronger. Please consider that the rubber I use this on, will never get hit very fast so be careful on how elastic you made that rubber.

slingshot (the ones near the flippers) and bumpers, I made them see video, the others ... well, I leave them in slingshot forgive me JP(popotte)

I recommend you to try the version of JPsalas

I will.

 

[Popotte]

OK. Post with bumper and slingshot explanation is still active but all the pics are missing (it's a post from 2006).
The 2 following pics explain how a Fliptronic's bumper works and it's about the same for slingshot.
The ball moves the bumper (or slingshot) until a switch (in fact not a switch but a mini ruptor) is triggered. So, a coil is actuated and the bumper (or the slingshot) returns to his place (and a little bit more in fact).

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

Problems with these tables (and all Rally's table from Rally Girl - Fliptronic serie) are:
- Nixies

Is the problem with simulating Nixie tubes in FP-BAM because a static Nixie digit is never really static, but 'dances around' a bit?

Sort of like thinking that a candle flame represents the number "one," yet to properly display the flame, the "one" should be flickering and moving around?

 

[Popotte]

Is the problem with simulating Nixie tubes in FP-BAM because a static Nixie digit is never really static, but 'dances around' a bit?

Sort of like thinking that a candle flame represents the number "one," yet to properly display the flame, the "one" should be flickering and moving around?

Not because that but because the problem of perspective. The numbers are not in the same plane. You have one circuit for the "0", an other for the "1", ... and one for the "9" separated with some millimeters. So you see the illuminated number and a little the others (at about 3'59 " and 4'20")

So, you have to use a image list I think. It's not hard, but you have to do it.

 

[AnonTet]

Regarding FP, it does allow you to use effects on gas display segments but nothing like nixies so it's not really a problem :)

But animations can be used and I recall gifs at some point (too heavy on resources?) so using one gif for each number and some coding I believe you can at least have something close to show up. Is it worth the time though? I'll leave the answer to someone who can code this (if possible).

/edit
posted at the same time as popotte. It seems possible at least :)

 

[Paolo]

The ball moves the bumper (or slingshot)

Yes JP, in fact in my video(above) you can see that I make the bumpers move not like the slingshots, in reality with a random movement regardless of where the bumper is hit, in the vpx version, the bumpers move in the opposite direction from where it is hit .. ... too complicated to do, requires a 360 degree movement code using fp .... instead if I used "AI" (as in hochey) with bam, it would be easier, but I don't know, how to encode it.

probably in the video above, the movement of the rectangular slingshot is not seen very well...here the video,look!
View attachment rectangular slingshot.mp4

If you allow me a suggestion, to keep the table faithful to the original but not losing a stronger push, why don't you use one of the rubber material in the XML to be extra elastic and use it on the rubbers? I use this trick on Black Knight (1980) upper playfield and it works well. And I could even go stronger. Please consider that the rubber I use this on, will never get hit very fast so be careful on how elastic you made that rubber.

what would be the parameter on xml?which rubber are you referring to?to my system, or the standard fp one?

 

[Popotte]

Yes JP, in fact in my video(above) you can see that I make the bumpers move not like the slingshots, in reality with a random movement regardless of where the bumper is hit, in the vpx version, the bumpers move in the opposite direction from where it is hit .. ... too complicated to do, requires a 360 degree movement code using fp .... instead if I used "AI" (as in hochey) with bam, it would be easier, but I don't know, how to encode it.

probably in the video above, the movement of the rectangular slingshot is not seen very well...here the video,look!
View attachment 23726

Concerning the slingshots, well done Paolo!
Concerning the bumpers, I think you have to forget reality, because it would be hell. Just make it the more realistic.
My better wishes for the development.
If you want, I could ask from some friends (I can't swear I'll have results) for the rules.

 

[Paolo]

Thanks JP
about the rules, well .... trying the vpx version I can understand something, I asked JPsalas, and he told me that he was based on what is written on the playfield, and to his intuition, he had no luck with the rules, in fact, told me that he did not find anything for the rules....or help from other people.

if you can know something let me know, what I understand is; that the targets, 1,2,3,4 turn on the lights corresponding to the colors, and so the scores change, what is not clear to me are the bonus lights, and the saveball-post in the middle of the flippers when it activates

trying the manual roller ball in vpx, as soon as I hit the targets a little harder than normal, the table goes haywire, and I can't understand what happens ... what I noticed is that these targets control the bonus lights and the saveball-post,but I have to understand in what way and sequence

edit
there is also the shoot again to understand....

 

[AnonTet]

@Paolo,
In regards to your system.
I'm just saying I had the same "problem" in BK but using the kicker was not an option for me because it didn't exist in the real table.

This table seems to use leafs, and you can still use leafs and have the extra bounce you need if you take, for example, RubberIntMat in the XML, set it extra elastic and use it on the rubbers that need the extra bounce.

Please note that I have NO idea if this is enough for this table. I'm just saying it was enough for my case and it can be an option in this or future tables you work on.

In any case, as you have it seems to work well and I still say good job and I want to try this table (and try also JP's vpx version)

 

[Popotte]

Thanks JP
about the rules, well .... trying the vpx version I can understand something, I asked JPsalas, and he told me that he was based on what is written on the playfield, and to his intuition, he had no luck with the rules, in fact, told me that he did not find anything for the rules....or help from other people.

if you can know something let me know, what I understand is; that the targets, 1,2,3,4 turn on the lights corresponding to the colors, and so the scores change, what is not clear to me are the bonus lights, and the saveball-post in the middle of the flippers when it activates

trying the manual roller ball in vpx, as soon as I hit the targets a little harder than normal, the table goes haywire, and I can't understand what happens ... what I noticed is that these targets control the bonus lights and the saveball-post,but I have to understand in what way and sequence

edit
there is also the shoot again to understand....

OK, I'll try.

 

[Paolo]

This table seems to use leafs, and you can still use leafs and have the extra bounce you need if you take, for example, RubberIntMat in the XML, set it extra elastic and use it on the rubbers that need the extra bounce.

yes I understand to what you are referring....and it would be another solution to have more bounce in


@Popotte
you who have tried this table, they move or not, the "single leaf" in real table?