Visual Pinball legality

[lionheart88]

I wanted to be a part of it, you all know. You know I am not allowed. I will put the energy I intended to put for VP the only place I am given. Against it, if I have to call attention by openly posting music from pinball games. Not rips but mp3, because it is the material, not where it comes from. I feel I deserve to be a member as much as anyone else, and yes, as much as everyone else.

What a Piece Of Shit you are that you would do such a thing and for what, all because you want to be part of a community that clearly doesn't want you there? You need to let your obsession go and move on to something else that you really can be productive with. You show your true colors and it's not a pretty sight to see.

 

[Shockman]

Hey, when it comes to hobbies, one takes what one can get, I guess.
That was my worst idea though, I assure you.

If it is true that the community as a whole does not want me there what a piece of shit it is, and I don't want to be a part of it either. I don't believe it though. I think it is just a few of you.

I wonder how many C&D orders have already been issued? I have heard of 4, so I would assume the number is much higher. Originals and re-creations have been hit with them. Community leaders like Black and Destruk has been hit, Casual users have been hit with them. None was from a Pinball manufacturer except for one that merges computer tech with pinball. Fan base claims fail because it is on a case by case basis and the object of litigation is to minimize the problem. Fair use fails, because if the use was fair there would be no claim, and there, there are guidelines, and one is the context. When you use the total of a licensed, trade marked, or copy-written material, you would be a fool to even show up in court claiming fair use.

It's not pretty, I know. But I am not trying to be. My mindset changes when I am banned for something said, when I was not the only one saying things. I have asked for credit in support files that maintain credit for entries. That was denied. I have asked for the avatar I created to be taken down, that was denied. I have asked for RO account so I could at least have access to this 'free' material. denied. I think it is important that this material be treated as free. All of it. Any hindrance, ownership, either implied or through conversion, should not occur.

 

[rascal]

Decided to see what's been happening over here at PN and I see this. Just so everybody knows, it was me that Shockman was chatting with about work and Katrina. It was a pleasent conversation for sure, I enjoyed it Shockman, honestly I did.

I know that you have me on this conspiracy list for some reason and I imagine it's because Paul has given me moderator rights. I've asked Paul a number of times to set me back to a Platnum member and he just hasn't done it yet I guess. Anyway, you are probably also thinking that I quickly hit the ban button or contacted Paul to let him know that you were there. I swear to you that I did not. If Paul somehow got notified or saw you there and banned you, I know nothing about it.

The VPF.org chat has been down for a few days now, everybody is getting the same error message, forgive me I don't know off the top of my head exactly what it says. Could this be what you are talking about as far as a ban from chat?

We're using a temporary chat for now here: http://zjiggit.com/VPFChat/

Stop in anyone.

 

[Shockman]

Not the message, no. Before anyone got that message I got a new half million minute ban. I do not blame you. I didn't want to mention your name, because I would not want you or anyone else in trouble with Paul. If he needs to maintain a shit list, to feel powerful, let's try to keep it as small as possible.

It is about the third time I have served the time that was written then banned again for just showing up when the ban was lifted.

To be clear. I do not log on. I go there as a nonmember would, click chat, and am in as Shockman without having to enter my name. If I log in the forum is locked out, but chat is not. Perhaps he is fixing it up where he could permaban folks from that as well. Maybe he just don't like non friends of his having anything to do with his friends.

Of course if he had real issues with me, they could be addressed. If they are not real, then they could not be.

 

[Shockman]

5.2 By enrolling in the Service, you acknowledge and agree that you have no right to provide any files obtained through the Service to any other party through any means. You may only make copies of any file obtained through the Service for your own personal use.

 

[Shockman]

WTF is this? Do you guys really believe that to get a file from VPF that you have no right to give it to me or anyone else? It does not matter because you agreed to it even though there was no legal basis to do so.

You still think the reason they are nowhere else is a coincidence? You still think VPF.org did not hijack VP/VPM combo. He did not even get permission to put a great number of those tables on his site. You are not suppose to host copy-written material let alone copyright infringing material. But to try to put your own copyright on it really takes balls.

 

[unclewilly]

I don't upload here for the main reason that on this site it has been stated time and time again that vp9 is garbage and is solely made for cabinet users. Mostly by you shockman.
Since my tables are all done in vp9 what would be the point using up disk space here at pn with what is considered garbage.
No conspiracy, just courtesy to not waste disk space with what is not wanted.

As for not getting files from people at vpf i don't remember reading that but it has been quite a few years since I've read the terms and conditions.
And i for one have supplied complete copies of my vpf setup on disks for my friends to make there setup as easy and painless as possible. Friends being the key word. And as i know I've been placed on the conspiracy list and had words with you in the past providing you with anything would be a stretch.

As for c&d orders. If you shut down vpf.org pn will not be far behind as the same infringing material is hosted here and at any other virtual pinball site.
And then where would you have to go and publicly itch about stuff.

Have a nice day

 

[faralos]

I like Shockman and have no qualms against him or his posts.
yeah you tell it like it is with brutal honesty and maybe that is what pissed people off
I have also had problems in PRIVATE pm's thru that site too with the sysops watching over each and every pm that goes out. to the point where one of their sysops insulted And hurt me greatly with his own emailing to me, it stated and I quote," I feel sorry for anyone you help either thru a post or email"
when all I was did was answer a question written to me by another fellow pinhead
Granted I don't know everything pin related and if I don't know, I do and did with this one too, referred him to another person to help him with his problem ( I had referred him to Itchigo) then I get that insulting email so I too am having problems with vpf.org nowadays to the point where now I am burned out from building pins mostly due to the insults I get all the time over there on almost every post I make. Why make pins if all I get are insults? Sure I still go there from time to time but nothing like how often I used to, and never again will I give out ANY help in either their pm's or in a post there
at least here the people are more open to suggestions or even just a post from me here I feel safer knowing that I won't get the insults I tend to get over there
it sucks really as I used to live on that site but now I tend to hang here instead
since there seems to be less politics and more open talk with no fear of getting banned for stating my opinion

 

[Shockman]

First of all. I never said VP9 is garbage. I said it is a piece of shit compared to VP8. And I made it clear I was speaking in terms of playing it as it was originally designed to be played, on a desktop computer, and in terms of graphics glitches, and in terms of code maintenance.

It does not say you can not give others your work, nor that those others can not then give it to others. It says that if Paul gives others your work by means of them downloading it from his site that they can not give it to others.

Second, you say the VP9 material, is not wanted here is why it is not here, and in another sentence that the same material is here. There is no basis for saying it is not wanted here. Because of one person? Me? Let me make it clear then. I want it here.

VP9 was solely made for cabinet use. It was made by making VP use hardware and graphic layout that would make that so. The code was not added for this properly, but instead, the existing code was altered for this, which is why one could say solely for cabinets.

The first hint of trouble for me as being member of VPF.org was the suggestion that this lost functionality be restored to VP, by those that work the VP code at VPF.org. I made it clear that I understand that UCdev did this and for reasons that were right for them. No thing, or person will ever convince me, and probably others that that was not a conflict of opinion that on my part represented anything negative towards VPF, but a love and respect for VP. A love and respect that frankly, I don't think the level of is approached by anyone else, and in my opinion, certainly no one at VPF.org.

In some ways VP was more open before it became open source. In some ways it was more public, more useful, more broadly appealing.

The problem is that UCVP now is VP and UCVP was a solely cabinet functional mod of VP by intention. From what I read from those involved in VP and UC, it was never intended to be a public version, but that those things be made available to be integrated into (not replace) VP.

I can not shut down VPF.org. Nor do I have any intention to shut down VPF. But I don't believe what you said either, that the same infringing material is here that is at VPF.org. My point is that VPF is illegally contractually making a monopoly on certain infringing material and should be shut down on that account. Not because I think it is wrong, but because it is wrong.

And I most certainly am not saying I have the power to do it. It is going to be a perhaps time consuming, expensive, tiresome process, but I do have ideas, and a tenacity, and a belief that it is going to happen. Not shut down VPF.org but to stop this contractual monopoly on this infringing material. Users seem to think they have no power, or are in fear of something, but compliance is there for this contractual monopoly for whatever reason. Authors have more power to stop this at this point than Paul does.

Have you ever heard of copyright sharks? no, probably copyright trolls. They are folks, usually law students, out of work, or even unemployable lawyers that find infringements on the net, which is easy, and approach the IP owners and the ones that are lawyers strike a deal to serve C&D orders and sometimes subpoenas for a small fee or percentage of recovery. In 30 days those web sites have no copyright material on them, are in court, or lost their case by default. Those that show up in court either win or lose.
Those that are not lawyers have no power of enforcement, but still sell the information and a mere c&d is mailed out by the IP holder and legal action on non compliance is up to them.

I am serious about this, and researching this and other options. It will be up to you, or someone else to see that a focused action trickles down to other infringing sites like this one. It is not going to happen automatically

 

[Noah Fentz]

WTF is this? Do you guys really believe that to get a file from VPF that you have no right to give it to me or anyone else? It does not matter because you agreed to it even though there was no legal basis to do so.

You still think the reason they are nowhere else is a coincidence? You still think VPF.org did not hijack VP/VPM combo. He did not even get permission to put a great number of those tables on his site. You are not suppose to host copy-written material let alone copyright infringing material. But to try to put your own copyright on it really takes balls.

Just to put this one to rest, it's not aimed at anyone but the lowlifes that sell CDs or upload torrents. CD sales are the biggest threat to the community and many an author has stated their dislike for their works in torrents.

It allows us to unequivocally ban said lowlifes without any ifs, ands or but ... but ... buts.

You want to share tables with your grandmother? Have at it. You wanna share with your dog? Be my guest. You want to sell VP tables or rip our content and upload it to a torrent? Banned. We've already shut down numerous auctions and retailers of VP and VP tables, and we will continue to do so at Randy's request and encouragement. Any problem with that?

Have a nice day.

 

[Noah Fentz]

I like Shockman and have no qualms against him or his posts.
yeah you tell it like it is with brutal honesty and maybe that is what pissed people off
I have also had problems in PRIVATE pm's thru that site too with the sysops watching over each and every pm that goes out. to the point where one of their sysops insulted And hurt me greatly with his own emailing to me, it stated and I quote," I feel sorry for anyone you help either thru a post or email"
when all I was did was answer a question written to me by another fellow pinhead
Granted I don't know everything pin related and if I don't know, I do and did with this one too, referred him to another person to help him with his problem ( I had referred him to Itchigo) then I get that insulting email so I too am having problems with vpf.org nowadays to the point where now I am burned out from building pins mostly due to the insults I get all the time over there on almost every post I make. Why make pins if all I get are insults? Sure I still go there from time to time but nothing like how often I used to, and never again will I give out ANY help in either their pm's or in a post there
at least here the people are more open to suggestions or even just a post from me here I feel safer knowing that I won't get the insults I tend to get over there
it sucks really as I used to live on that site but now I tend to hang here instead
since there seems to be less politics and more open talk with no fear of getting banned for stating my opinion

We don't watch over PMs!

Where do you people GET this stuff?

 

[Shockman]

Problem? Not really, but that is not what the contract states. It says for any reason. It implies you own it. sorry to be the first to tell you, but you do not. Because you did not ask for permission to upload these tables to you site, to assume ownership is theft.

Did you credit me in the core.vbs file? did you take down my art (the avatar) as I requested?

 

[unclewilly]

No matter to me if any of the sites shut down. I still have everything i need to make and play all the tables vp8 and vp9. so the hobby will continue for me and all my friends in the community know where to get in touch with me for tables.

But infringement is infringement. So any site hosting any tables containing copywriten materials regardless of whether there is a subscription fee or not is technically in the wrong so any site hosting vpf tables: vpf, irp, or pn will are all potential candidates for infringement suites

its just easy for you to focus on vpf.org as you are not welcome there.

I will gladly upload all my vp9 tables here if there is a demand for them.
But haven't received any pas requesting them

as for other materials i didn't create, that is for the authors to upload.

I believe with vpf being open source. Anyone can modify and host their own compiled version of the program as well as vpm. I don't believe anywhere in the open source license is it required that modifications are to be distributed. I could be wrong about this.
And you can download everything for free at vpf just with a download limit so they are not charging for their compiled version of vp
anyone can get it
that is unless they are ip banned

 

[Shockman]

Bullshit.

Nearly everything you said is true. All infringing sites are at risk. I focus on VPF for exactly the reason you say.

anyone can, unless. You know another way that can be written?

The bullshit is that you would upload them here. Bullshit because you were informed of that desire, and in this very thread. I will not demand you do it, if that's what you mean. If it is not, how would you know what the volume of use would be?

 

[Shockman]

Actually your's and JP's are the ones I want the most.

 

[Shockman]

It's kind of like don't ask don't tell, except it's more like don't tell, don't ask. It's actually, more like 'they are occupied, so don't yell and they won't hear you' When the right people hear though, they are obliged if for nothing else to reiterate the seriousness they need to purvey. For them to refuse to shut down a infringing site would be for them to convey that they are selective, something they could not afford. Even if they are, and they are, selective in their own pursuits.

 

[unclewilly]

I just read that you had an interest in my tables. And because it has been stated i will upload my tables here.
I apologize for being at work and not uploading them instantly to please you your highness

i already have tables here I will upload my others when important not at work if i still have upload permission

 

[Shockman]

Consider yourself Knighted Sir unclewilly.

Seriously though, Thank you.

 

[unclewilly]

DDidn't see your other post shocky .
My phone is too slow to update the site.
Ill upload after work.
Id like for anyone who wants my tables to have them.

I appreciate your interest

 

[Shockman]

Don't feel pressured. Do it at your leisure. And Thanks Again.

 

[Shockman]

Personally for me it is sad to see such sites shut down. But I don't expect being banned for something I might have said would be for any other reason but to put me in a world of sadness (dramatic, isn't it?). It really is, but so is a permaban for telling the truth, honest opinion, and defending VP's initial mission, and ones self interest.

 

[H4CK3R]

Shockman... Im no Mod, nor am I anyone to be taken seriously...

So seriously don't take this to heart when I tell you that your acting like a 4 year old, I don't get my way on one forum, and I get banned, not once but twice from two different people. Now that I can't have my way at said site, I'll stir up more shit at another. Just grab your toys and go home...

Seriously, you act like your 4. Grow a pair and except that your not welcome... Maybe because of the same shit your stirring up here.

 

[Shockman]

I understand that. But just the same, those involved will surly understand that VPF.org would not be welcome in my life, and it would be taking from their example to try to get rid of it.

In a world where it is OK for a human being to be thrown out, but it's not OK for a thing to be thrown out, what does it matter who loses what?

Even with what has gone down, I want to give VPF another chance, because I think they deserve and certainly need another chance. At some point in time it will not be possible.

I need to be clear that I do not hear that I was going to invited back when it is no longer an option. It takes a deep personal quirk to ban someone for life for an argument.

 

[StrayDog]

I'm normally a lurker here and over at the vpforums, but I had to make an account to respond to Shockman.

It seems like you've created this entire thread because you're still butt hurt over getting banned. I don't know what led to your initial ban, but you should just get over it and move on with your life.

Your time/energy would be better served doing something constructive than to pout and plot revenge. You sound like a woman scorn over a stupid pinball forum on the internet.

Get out and get some sunshine or just do what everyone else on the internet does when they get banned from a forum. Make a new username and try not to do the same things that got you banned in the first place.

--SD

 

[Shockman]

I planted a lot of trees today, watched Thor again, collect more real steel material, tested some ways to render what would be 9" robots in a pinball machine, plotted revenge, played with a cat, and a neighbors dog, played LOTR visual pinball, downloaded Attack from mars and the rom, watched the daily show with Jon Stewart and the Cobert Report, read and posted, watched a couple clips, rolled a cigarette, smoked it, and still had some spare time.

Oh shit, I forgot to eat though. I should have skipped Cobert.