Visual Pinball legality

[Isaac Sauvage]

and you even found time to entertain a stray dog. don't sell yourself short, here.

 

[mrschultz]

I will gladly upload all my vp9 tables here if there is a demand for them.

Please do, I wish more people would, especially JP. Would be nice if there were separate areas for 8 and 9 but it's not that hard to put "for VP9" in the title.

VP8 and 9 both have issues, but I prefer 9 mostly due to fewer collision issues. For example you can stack 3 balls in a lock and not have them melt together into one.

 

[sleepy]

I think the main issue with uploading to PN or elsewhere is so that we have a site to fall back on in case something happens to the main site, and I would think after our experience with AJ that at least a few of us might agree.

In fact, this was *I think* one of the reasons for PN in the first place.
Way back when, we were seeing DOS attacks and downtime at the .com site.

 

[LeeVanCleef]

watched Thor again,

For god's (or Odin's) sake, why? I was barely able to sit through it the first time! It was nice to see the actors walking up and down the Rainbow Road track from Super Mario Kart. At least you found time to make a meal out of Colbert. Wait... that doesn't sound right.

 

[sleepy]

But Thor...it was supposed to be good.
I didn't see it.

What was Sir Anthony doing in it? Was he having lunch?

You know, I often see him on the street while walking past or near Cadillac Jack's which was once a Route 66 diner, now converted to a location set for movies and t.v., porno, etc.
For porno and theatricals, there's a secluded classic motel swimming pool in the back.

But you can't ask the guard what they are shooting, either way. He won't tell you.

 

[rascal]

Is this the way you make friends Shockman? If it is, it's no wonder you're on the outside looking in. Dude, really, even if this threat worked for you, do you think anyone would give you the time of day afterwards?

Come on Shocky, try a different more friendly approach, maybe one that is community minded and not distructive or threatening. I think you would have better luck with that.

I know you can be a civil and upstanding guy when you want to be, it would benefit you more if you would stay that way.

Stop playing this "push the limits" and "abused step child" game you play, you might find people that would listen to you and heck, they might even like you.

 

[Shockman]

No. The way I make friends is to join a community, contribute what I can to it, and speak openly and honestly about it.

It is out of revenge that I do this, it's true.

I am going to contact some companies and ask for a free license to use any part of a certain trademark of theirs. If they say yes, you can do as you like with our IP, no problem. If the answer is no, it's on a fast track.

I am sick and tired of pointing out the facts of this ban. And I have tried all alternatives, including months on end of banishment for an argument I did not even start, and was started up again by a certain someone else after I agreed to drop it.

 

[Shockman]

Let me make this last point. Other than not being able to discuss it any longer, or accept reinstatement of my account any longer, that I do not have the power to close a site down for any reason, revenge, or any other. The only thing that can force a site down is illegal activity on that site.

 

[faralos]

being as I am recently hired as an online system admin for the younow.com site (woohoo, finally!) I now understand all the crap that Paul must put up with when it comes to banning or unbanning. We ban people too but we also can UNban them if they show remorse. I do not know of the arguments between you and vpf nor am I asking but to ban someone on a permanent basis is unfair IMO and I do state that this is my opinion. I have also unbanned people at that site after talking with them either thru skype or emailings but they are then on probation one more screw up and they get banned permanently
I only hope that you guys can work out your differences soon
any hope of that being just a temporary ban of some kind Shockman?
and just how long is a 500 million minute ban anyhow? I am too lazy to do the math
good luck either way guys

 

[Shockman]

I don't know. A 500 million minute ban would be about a thousand years. But the chat bans at VPF have been about 530 thousand minutes only.

No one knows of the arguments, except for those involved. Everyone involved knows the part they played.

This has nothing to do with running a site faralos, so your examples of what you would or would not do don't apply. I never did say I do not support the idea of permanent bans. Paul did though. I say that permanent bans have a place, but just not as a way to win an argument, or to cover up actions. All the things I actually did say, I would admit to saying, and the reverse is probably true as well.

People are probably free to agree to disagree, or to disagree without agreeing to there, as long as certain people don't believe the disagreements fly in their face. The same should be true for childish behavior. Everything said should be considered, not pick out what someone else said, remove the context, and then ban them. This is what VPF does, and why Paul would agree that it has no right to be up, though he would never admit it. But since when does right have to do with anything. It's like the copyright issue, the more arguments someone gives for infringing upon it, the more it is obvious they understand it is wrong.

 

[Shockman]

Zen studios is one example of a licencee that can demand cash from VP table providers. The Marvel licence is granted to them, and perhaps others, but unless it is also licensed to VPF.org, then Zen would also have action and monetary damages in this case. The whole purpose of a license is to be able to use others' property legally. If the licence is for a library and not individual trademarks, many tables can be pulled on this single account.

The only chance of VPF winning this one is if IP owners are going to respond with "It really does not matter how our IP is used and whether it is licensed and legal or not". Because without anything less than full free access, they are going to be pestered for an answer one way or another. If it spills over to other sites, and they are hit with C&D orders as well, it is not because I asked for clarity on the issue, but because it was never true that they were free with no attachments at all made by individuals. It will be the fault of the site that limits access based on money provided to the owner of that site, and that contractually stipulated that after you download them, they are still not free, but under his control.

 

[Itchigo]

I think bans have their place and even permabans are necessary sometimes. But the bottom line is this: It's Paul's site and hence his show. Just the same as is at my site. What he says goes, right or wrong.

I've always uploaded to both sites- even if I did start here. I'm too new to really know about the old crap.:D

 

[Shockman]

Yes. What he says goes, even if it is wrong. That much is certain.

 

[H4CK3R]

Shockman, are you happy yet? Did you get your 10 minutes of fame? This hoppy of yours your tring to destroy because your totally mental?

Your a douche, right your petitions, Zen studios, Stern, and anyone else knows that most of us are die hard pinheads, and their main income when it comes to buying their stuff...

After a few paragraphs from you, they will ignore your sorry ass like the rest of us. You want to make death threats against me? Ill give you my number and address, just know I have more guns then you. So does the security guards that are in front of my house.

Your FUCKING MENTAL. Like I said, you want to raise flags, and cause a stink, its no wonder you've been banned so many times. This is why I feel I can call you out on these forums, if they can tolerate your sorry ass, they can at least allow me to call you the bitch that you are.

Hell I bought zen studios tables in hopes that they get enough resources to release it on PC.

Same goes with Farsight Studios, and any other software that comes out.

Good luck with your Crusade. Your in it alone, when it comes to this topic.

H4CK3R

 

[Shockman]

Stern? They make pinball machines. VP has nothing to do with pinball machines except in concept. In reality it has nothing to do at all with pinball. Pinball, take another look H4CK3R, it's a mechanical device. Look at VP. No mechanical devices.

My ban has nothing to do with copyright material. But I do have material there still. My ban is for one thing only. It is because he can not afford to have intelligent conversation and truth there.

Your FUCKING MENTAL. Like I said, you want to raise flags, and cause a stink, its no wonder you've been banned so many times. This is why I feel I can call you out on these forums, if they can tolerate your sorry ass, they can at least allow me to call you the bitch that you are.

raising flags is what I am talking about. It's what Paul can not afford. Suggestions of fixing VP for desktop using code that has existed from the start up until UCVP became VP did cause a stink, but how was I to know? I did that based on things that Paul said here. I had no idea it was a lie so I thought ideas to make VP better for everyone would be received, if not well received. Saying VP9 nudging, for example is better even for desktop than VP8 ever was is stupid. Not because I say so, but because nothing about it. Nothing, works correctly. And that is just one example out of many.

Even the latest thing he said there, that changing the center nudge from 0 to 180 is an answer begs for discussion, though his saying it begs that none exists. Narcissism, and it is crazy. The discussion that is going on there misses the point. Being put into the core or not is not an issue. Those that want the improvements would be wise to use the nudge adjusting core.

There is a point missing in that post though that would not be missing if I was there. Recoil. It is being put after the nudge to bring the ball back, and this with table shake on. Crazy stuff. The recoil should be first, while the table is moving and it should be in the opposite direction of that, appearing as it should that the table moves, but not the ball. In spite of what Paul says, 180 does nothing but has stupid visual and physics in another direction. Why is it that these things are not made to work as realistically as possible? Why has no one even suggested this in that thread. I think it's because someone thinks discussion on whether something that makes it work better should even exist. Fuck Paul for that attitude. He is a fucking liar. The community is split, VP is catering to a niche, and that is not bad. What is bad is that ideas to fix this problem is stifled, and anyone that does fix it can be assured that that build would not be welcome there. It's Ok that that is what VPF is. But let him just come out and say that what he said here in his statement was all lies. We will accept it. we already know it's true. then there would be no issue, would there?

 

[Shockman]

H4CK3R
...
You want to make death threats against me? Ill give you my number and address, just know I have more guns then you. So does the security guards that are in front of my house.

Where did that come from? Who is threatening who? I can understand that you would need guards in front of your house. I bet they are busy people. I never heard of anyone being shot with a pile of guns though. More guns than me. What a fucking idiot.

 

[Shockman]

In saying that you would give me your address and number, though I would not use them, you are saying that you WILL do something that would give you an opportunity to kill me. It also implies that if it would be OK if I was to go to your address, that it would likewise be fine for you to show up at mine.

I now feel that my life is in immediate danger, as it is clear that you want to shoot me and will do what you can to achieve that.

You want to make death threats against me? Ill give you my number and address, just know I have more guns then you. So does the security guards that are in front of my house

.

I will give you 24 hours to retract that, or I will file a police report.

April 2 2012 9:00pm

 

[Shockman]

Why get mad at me because I tell the truth.

The fact is that distributing roms without permission from all owners of the content within them (including anything licensed) is illegal. Not because I said so.

To load files to his site and then restrict them and to try to say he retains rights to them is theft. Not because I said so. Paul said he has shut down many distributors. What is the difference? At least the torrents I have seen have not claimed ownership, as Paul's terms clearly states he does.

To host roms that have had the copy protection cracked is nothing, nothing at all short of a warez site. Illegal as hell too.

Paul said he has went after sites, torrents, e-bay, that was distributing tables. Come on. You can claim dumb, but I don't buy it. Most of his database was uploaded without asking for permission. By his own standards he would agree that his site should be reported, if not shut down out of hand. No? Why?, earnest query here.

-----------------------

Nintendo use to write on its packaging that you could not copy the medium, even for personal use. They have no legal grounds to do that, but if you bought the game and broke that seal, then you were obligated to abide. Paul does not need to say that commercial use is prohibited. That goes without saying, but there is nothing wrong with saying that. But to say that you could not give away a file that was downloaded from his site is conversion. He is implying that these tables are his, even after they are in your possession. It would pertain also to the original author, if the copy he is giving away is one that he downloaded from VPF, after suffering from a drive crash or something. And because it is written in the terms, it is the case that Paul retains control of these files, if he enforces it or not. Such language is not community driven, it is one man. To say it does not pertain to everyone when the language says it does, means there is no sense to having it. Torrent hosts have as much right to these tables as Paul does. E-bay providers do not need this provision, they already have it. Even they have a right to distribute these, and are providing a service, if the only charge is the medium and handling. Agree or not is is not Paul's place to write or enforce laws, especially with the many tables that were dumped to his site without permission. Not that permission was legally needed, but that taking any control over them and especially in the language he does that, is worse than any other distribution method I can think of, and would be on par with a true commercial endeavor where they are actually being sold for profit.

 

[Shockman]

Time's up, but let's do it your way. Go ahead and give me your number and address as you said you would. Otherwise shut the fuck up, and stay out of my life.

 

[H4CK3R]

Time's up, but let's do it your way. Go ahead and give me your number and address as you said you would. Otherwise shut the fuck up, and stay out of my life.

Fuck you shockman, I know everything about you, how you threaten mods, and admins with injury, ect...

Just when you don't get your way... Sorry Don't visit these forums often, and obviously, no ones listens to your shit either, buy the lack of a on going conversation, that your having with yourself.

Just piss off, and Die, Do something special and Darwin yourself..

Ready when you are, Dumb ass

 

[Shockman]

I thought not. Just making sure you are only blowing smoke.

 

[druadic]

Where is that "beating a dead horse smiley" at?

I know most folks don't play what I've created in VP but ALL my WIP have been uploaded here for VP9, including Skykings and Pro Pool. Personally I don't understand why other authors don't put their works here but it's not my call and I can't force them to upload them here. I can't see any real reason they shouldn't put their WIP's here but there must be a reason. What that reason is is unknown to me. Pro Pool and Skykings have also been added to IR Pinball. I feel ALL PINBALL SITES deserve updates when they're made available.

As for the nudging side of VP, can't things be changed in the scripting to fix the issue? I've done this in many WIP. Not an issue for me.

I can't speak for other authors, but personally I think BOTH SITES deserve any releases for VP.

My "two cents" worth.

 

[Shockman]

Of course both sites deserve releases. Thanks for your VP9 releases. I have not noticed any nudge issues addressed in the scripts though. You are right though. Anything done to the VP9 nudging routines is an improvement, and there are some things that can be addressed in the script.

Of all the fans of pinball both here and at VPF though, only a handful seem to have an understanding of pinball, especially in flippers and most of all nudging, probably less than a handful there. The rest say nothing is wrong or a simple reversing is needed, or separate functions, or some other things. Some even say to be able to drive the ball is correct behavior. There is nothing right about VP9 nudging. Not one single thing about it. It is backwards, sure cabinets use backwards nudging, but the key routines are backwards. There is no recoil, and people even have discussed a percentage, it should be and I have even read zero. Fact is for all intents and purposes it is 100%. One nudge on one real machine and it is clear. The fact that people can persuade the flight of the ball is true, but silly to bring up because it is not a normal nudge, and is not the intention of a normal nudge.

It won't get fixed. It would have been fixed already. The code exists. It would never have been an issue if there was any intent for keyboard function to come back into the mainstream.

 

[Shockman]

H4CK3R, I never took you for a coward, but I was wrong. You are a coward and a dick too.

I wondered what you meant when you said bye bye in chat. You were going to the admin and crying to get me banned from there too. You are a fucking pussy.

Not that I blame you. If I could not stand up to someone, I would be just like you.

Another ban at another site for another no good reason. Just because of some piece of scum. Fucking coward H4CK3R.

 

[Shockman]

Who is the admin. of the bigbangbar.org/Chat?