what happened to VPforum?

[da_prez]

there is already a vpunderground ... although you may have never heard of it because it is ....

:D

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

I agree! The name can be quite confusing to some people, especially to the casual audience.

Maybe the name could be changed to VPUforums or just VPU. That'll get rid of the confusion.

U = Underground

VPunderground and the VPU forums were started by gottlieb (the user) around 3-4 years ago.

 

[bob]

Lets CHAT about in the chatroom....

 

[Anthias]

I have reservations about this whole .org thing. I have experienced a domain of mine being "hijacked" in a similar fashion and while I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt to the org boys, I think they have clearly not thought this through before choosing the name.

There are risks here for both sites, that go beyond simple confusions. There could be some verry complicated ones as well - legally too. Also you will find SOME countries have allready had "courtroom discussion" of the use or re-use of domain name similarities, and it is cloudy, but has appeared to lean towards the "don't do it" side of the fence. It is only a matter of time before trademark style rules become a distinct possibility with domains.

I have allways considered such a use/recycling of the VPForums name to be extremely taboo. We even took advice back in the early VP-Original days, to remove the word FORUMS from the name because of the offence it would cause, as there WAS precident allready back then in the corporate world for legal action against such.

I will reserve judgement at this stage and will not say anything against those involved in the .org domain, however in keeping with my reservations detailed in this post, I will abstain from joining in the short term while I continue to assess the situation. I tend to think at this point I will likely join Pheonix on his bench in the park on the other side of town from the .org building.

I can only visit so many forums in my day, and between PN and PO, and following up my OTHER interests, there is not much free time left.

 

[MikePin74]

Well Until things over at VPForum are fixed I guess I'll have to stay here then. Hope's AJ ok though.

 

[Phoenixx]

Val was invited by me to be involved. He DID NOT get involved until AFTER I decided to move ahead. So, leave Val out of the blame game going on here.

Like it matters. Like it would make a difference who 'had the idea'.

Sorry, but thats a non-argument. And very, very ridiculous given the context. I mean 'Valamir the Innocent'? 'I take the blame'? Paleeze. Is this supposed to be some sort of 'lets try to limit the damage as much as still possible so AJ wont fire us all' tactic? If five guys get caught robbing a bank the police wont let the other four go only because one of them steps forward and says "I had the idea, the others joined me only 5 minutes ago, let them go i take the blame.". Thats just absurd. The police will arrest them all and the judge will sentence them all because quite obviously they couldnt care less 'who had the idea'. What matters is that each of them has participated and thus helped to execute a plan. Im surprised i have to point this out since this is normally common knowledge,...

 

[1234fd]

It's not hard at all to get into the DNS on the server and create havoc. If you can get in, you can alter the settings for DNS, including the deletion of websites within DNS. I've learned this from my instructors. Some hackers do become Certified Ethical Hackers for the Government. If someone did get totally pissed off and hacked VPF, the obvious question would be "Who did it?".

Disband VPF. Though that would be a great service to the community, it would have it's problems. VPF has collected thousands of dollars, so it is bought and paid for.
quote]

???

 

[TomcatLeader]

This is my view, as I have said at VPF, It's goddamn pinball! Whether or not a site has the same name as VPF doesn't really matter, as long as the integrity of the community remains intact. People really need to get a can of "Get Right" and get over themselves. We are going forward, as the community as a whole needs to. Just because AJ dropped the ball, doesn't neccessarily mean that others are out to gain profits (which I see are none) by it. Giving a new site VPF's name with a new domain does give the original site credit for its existance and what it HAS done for the community. I just hope that lessons were learned from the experiences of VPF and those lessons are applied to the new site. The community has evolved and so should VP/VPM, regardless to which site/sites host it. But, that's just one man's opinion.

 

[1234fd]

This is my view, as I have said at VPF, It's goddamn pinball! Whether or not a site has the same name as VPF doesn't really matter, as long as the integrity of the community remains intact. People really need to get a can of "Get Right" and get over themselves. We are going forward, as the community as a whole needs to. Just because AJ dropped the ball, doesn't neccessarily mean that others are out to gain profits (which I see are none) by it. Giving a new site VPF's name with a new domain does give the original site credit for its existance and what it HAS done for the community. I just hope that lessons were learned from the experiences of VPF and those lessons are applied to the new site. The community has evolved and so should VP/VPM, regardless to which site/sites host it. But, that's just one man's opinion.

Well, at least two now!

Another GOOD thing that happened to VPF is that it has already generated other forums like JPG-PINS Forum http://jpgpins.forumotion.com/forum.htm & Pinball Unlimited http://www.pinballunlimited.net/ where the new tournament has already started, with EALA´s Roller Disco!
Hope to meet some of you there.

 

[TedB]

Giving a new site VPF's name with a new domain does give the original site credit for its existance and what it HAS done for the community. I just hope that lessons were learned from the experiences of VPF and those lessons are applied to the new site. The community has evolved and so should VP/VPM, regardless to which site/sites host it. But, that's just one man's opinion.

I think it might be different if AJ could be contacted and was very vocal about anyone "stealing" his sitename. His appearances were almost as rare as Randy's so I doubt he will care one bit.
If vpforums.com will be up again (and I hope it will be), that might be a great opportunity to discuss the latest issues.
If AJ makes a big fuss about anyone claiming 'his' sitename, it is still not too late to claim another domain.

 

[TheMcD]

Like it matters. Like it would make a difference who 'had the idea'.

Sorry, but thats a non-argument. And very, very ridiculous given the context. I mean 'Valamir the Innocent'? 'I take the blame'? Paleeze. Is this supposed to be some sort of 'lets try to limit the damage as much as still possible so AJ wont fire us all' tactic? If five guys get caught robbing a bank the police wont let the other four go only because one of them steps forward and says "I had the idea, the others joined me only 5 minutes ago, let them go i take the blame.". Thats just absurd. The police will arrest them all and the judge will sentence them all because quite obviously they couldnt care less 'who had the idea'. What matters is that each of them has participated and thus helped to execute a plan. Im surprised i have to point this out since this is normally common knowledge,...

According to your logic, I'm almost 100% innocent. It's like I promised to plan the robbery, but never actually did it because I never had the paper I needed to write my plan on! I have yet, to this day, to contribute anything of use besides my presence. Just like as if I was just standing there in the bank while the others rob it, to stay in the metaphor. But still I am part of the crew.

But I don't follow that logic. If AJ decides to fire Val and Noah as staff, then I'm going too. I was part of this group, now I'm staying with them!

This is one of the first times I really am sticking with one side. The other times I tried to be neutral, but here? No way. I am 99% behind this program, the only thing being that I could care less if the name was changed.

We should discuss this issue when VPF returns, as the only person on VPF.com's side whose word has the power is and always will be AJ (unless he sells the site)!

Having said that, I'll get my bets for the Super Bowl in and will take a small break from here.

The McD

 

[faralos]

Personally I don't care if you name it 'balls 4 all' I am unsure of the legalities of using the same name, but if VPF is no more than who's to say you CAN'T use it? and whatever issues others may have 'finding' it, well, once it's in my favorites I kind of know on which one I'm clicking! and kudos for trying to get it up (insert viagra joke here) and running (insert laxative joke here)! any forum/site/domain...what ever is fine by me as long as it STAYS! no magical dissapearing act and I'm happy...

 

[yogiholzer]

What's now? How to solve the situation as peaceful as possible and to anyones satisfaction, without to make anyone to lose his/her face? Do you wait for AJs and VPFs recurrence and ask what to do, while it isn't clear, if AJ and VPF will come back ever, even if they did always before? That actually doesn't seem to promise any solution soon.

Personally I'm undecided what to prefer, because I can understand both sides. But finally I don't see the need to make the name search/finding that important. It's still only a name. Some agreed with that before.

That said I give to reconsider: If it really is only a name, then why does it seem to be important that the name is nearly the same (VPF, but another domain).

The easiest and probably safest way (regarding legal and members scepticism) is just to name the site different as thought first, even if there already was some work to make the logo. Bob already made some nice suggestions and I add one here: VPStation. It's short enough to remember, VPS could be the well-defined/new abbreviation and it covers all associations that come to mind. Why to grapple anymore with so./sth., if a there's another possible solution?

 

[yogiholzer]

I forgot to mention this: All have to blind/fade/blank out previous made statements. This is nothing where to carry out personal fights!

I feel bad while seeing TheMcD needs a small break from here.

 

[elton]

Wow, is this being taking this way too seriously or what?

Could I care what the forum is called or where it's hosted? ...... err, No. Just happy that it will be somewhere where a bunch of cyber buddies can hang out, share stories indulge in pinball but mainly have some fun and get some relief from our everyday lives.

Is it stealing .... no way! Is AJ, as the owner of the original site interested .... errr No. It's a business, period. It would not surprise me that he doesn't even know its down yet because he is so dis-interested. If he was in anyway serious, he would have made contact or gotten a message to the admins or through this site, whatever.

For my part I'm happy with Pinball Nirvana. Strange that by kickstarting a thread or two some VPF members have contributed. But in the main, most are just adding their frustrations and opinions to this very thread. So why not start adding new threads here? Why are you waiting for the 'new place' to open? Start things off here. There'll be plenty of time to vent some steam at the new place when it arrives.

Shit, if there wasn't going to be a 'new place' this thread would be full of 'Oh my God! what we gonna do now that VPF has disappeared?' As it is, we should be grateful that others are digging deep to try and provide an alternative forum, 'cos folk here sure are timid at starting any threads at PN. :verysad:



Now that I've read it through, it looks like I'm ranting. Well I figure my frustrations are coming out too - so this must be the right thread! But enoughs enough. I'm cracking open the Grolsch and retiring to a film. Goodnight one and all!



Last Question ...... Is it still your hobby, yes? Oh, good. That's cleared up that then.



Footnote: as yogi said .... let's not argue amongst friends. Rest assured that some peeps are trying to help, while others don't view it as helpful - lets just agree to disagree.

 

[ArcAngel]

Well, at least two now!

Another GOOD thing that happened to VPF is that it has already generated other forums like JPG-PINS Forum http://jpgpins.forumotion.com/forum.htm & Pinball Unlimited http://www.pinballunlimited.net/

PU.net has been registered since April 3rd 2007 and has nothing to do with the current VPF situation. It might be that PU.net is simply new for you.

 

[yogiholzer]

Thanks about your footnote, Elton!

To sum up: Some care about the name, some not. Those who don't care, are satisfied with any name and those, who care, are probably satisfied with any other name. That leads exactly to only one peaceful solution to satisfy (nearly) all: New/different/other name.

If I was the one to decide, I guess I now would have found the right solution.

 

[StevOz]

I hope VPF 2 is gone for good, let's face it, it sucked we lost all the valuable attachments, the uploads never worked and AJ set the place up so even as an Admin you were virtually powerless to effect any changes, whilst AJ himself was never there to fix anything, good ridiance to it.

Oh and Pheonixx your psychotic conspiracy theories are just that, fuckin' nutso!

 

[bob]

Can we say, "fuckin nutso" at the new VPF?

Hey, this is a very important issue for me.

 

[Noah Fentz]

Can we say, "fuckin nutso" at the new VPF?

Hey, this is a very important issue for me.

Actually, you can, since it's not in the filter.

This is a decision I've been torn with. On one hand, we're adults, we should be able to say anything. On the other hand, I want a typical 14 year old kid to be able to participate without feeling uncomfortable. We do have a responsibility of passing this great hobby on to the next generation!

So, where should the line be drawn? Should it be drawn at all?

 

[yogiholzer]

You answered your question by your own! But I tend to think that it shouldn't be too destructive.

 

[Phoenixx]

Oh and Pheonixx you phycotic conspiracy theoties are just that, fuckin, nutso!

Thank you Svete. And since we are speaking freely, i think you are a naive and pitiable existence because you cant see the obvious.

And thank you for not disappointing me too. I said i dont need anyone to evaluate my opinion for me and that everyone can have their own different one and that nobody gets an argument from me if they express it. And i sticked to what i said. I didnt agree with many things some people here have said, but i let them have their opinions without attacking them or even insulting them. Because everyone is entitled to have their own views on something. But i knew that sooner or later someone had to attack me and my views because thats how it always is. It is simply typical for this so-called 'community' and even more typical for certain people. And quite frankly this is just another reason for me to feel ashamed to be a part of it. It also doesnt surprise me in the least that it is you who starts it, since you usually also defend many other of the most twisted and illogical moral- and ethics-lacking concepts like 'modding-rules', where it is considered perfectly O.K. to steal from people who really own something while those who stoled the stuff must then be treated with respect. You have my pity, really you do, because if i were like you i couldnt have any respect for myself whatsoever. Thats all i have to say to you,...and thanks again for not disappointing me,...

 

[TedB]

Actually, you can, since it's not in the filter.

This is a decision I've been torn with. On one hand, we're adults, we should be able to say anything. On the other hand, I want a typical 14 year old kid to be able to participate without feeling uncomfortable. We do have a responsibility of passing this great hobby on to the next generation!

So, where should the line be drawn? Should it be drawn at all?

I think cursing is not the main problem on any forum. Kids can see much worse things.. Continues flaming and unpleasant behavior is more damaging imo.
In the past there was Pacdude who really was an ass sometimes and worthy of a banning period and of course Shockman who almost begged to get banned. The offensive cursing of Shockman was getting ridiculous at times. That is where I really should draw the line.

A discussion can be a fierce one, but should never end in personal attacks or continuous flaming.

Moderating is one of the hardest things to do, I have seen some very nice guys (moderators) turn into screaming madmen because of a couple of idiots that got onto their nerves. Common sense I guess is what is needed most :)

BTW. I think it is great you are still continuing with the new forum. Also I want to add that I hope you will continue with www.vpforums.org. I think there are some good arguments to choose for vpforums as name, certainly whenever the old forum never re-appears again.

There's no harm done, and it is not irreversible. Lets just see what happens. Keep up the good work!

 

[yogiholzer]

Why don't you all (you all should know who I mean) switch your personal conflicts to another thread? It's really absolutely counterproductive here!

 

[yogiholzer]

I'm out of this discussion from now on. I finally lost fun to try to give any inspiration thanks to 2, 3 or 4 people here. Get lucky on whatever you decide.