what happened to VPforum?

[Phoenixx]

Yes,...laugh, Valamir, laugh,...it sure suits your persona and i think everyone figured out by now that this is all we can expect from you. But mark my words; ultimately i dont think that youll be laughing your way out of this one since ill-gotten goods never prosper. And seeing you behave this way, when all i did was trying to be a friend and appeal to your conscious, almost makes me wish on you that your pathetic little 'coup d'etat' fails. I only hope AJ has the sense to immediately terminate your admin status once he gets VPF back online, because with backstabbing 'friends' like you one really doesnt need any enemies. Personally, after this, i wouldnt trust you as far as i can throw you, let alone entrust my forum to you as you have clearly proven, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that you cannot be trusted whatsoever and that when it comes down to it you wont hesitate a second to plunge a knife in the back of those who did trust you as concepts like honor and loyalty and doing things the right way quite obviously mean nothing at all to you if only you think it is in the best of your own interests,...

(And please spare me the 'im only doing it for the community' rap now, neither do i believe you for a second nor is this the point. The point is that there is a right way and a wrong way of doing something, and your way is defninitely wrong as wrong can be. Period.)


Honestly, i have never felt so ashamed for being a member of this community. The lack of ethics and morals around here, particularly when it comes to the 'community' itself which means im not talking about 'using ROMs' here, is simply unbelievable. And the hypocrisy and backstabbing around here that is a direct result of the former doesnt seem to be from this world either. This has bothered me for a long time, and the more i think about it the more i think that i have tolerated and even supported this against my inner convictions and principles much too long. But no longer, this will end right here right now. This will be the line that im not going to cross, which means if this new forum is really going to be run under the vpforums domain without AJs express consent then i will have no part of it. Because i will definitely not participate in something that is founded from the ground up on disloyalty and disrespect and so perfidious and subversive and traitorous that the thought of it alone makes my stomach turn. This is the time to make a stand and stand by your principles. And this is precisely what im going to do this time. Because ultimately there are some things in live that are more important than helping to keep pinball alive, and if this means that i will no longer be part of this community then so be it. I can live with that, and i can live with it better than with the alternative which would be knowingly supporting something that i absolutely despise,...

 

[mrschultz]

Been about a week now, AJ should have been able to put some kind of status page up by now.

4dealhosting still has the default starter page up, so no one has been working on that either.

Maybe he has been on vacation? Probably the only hope at this point.

As for the name grab, it was done way too soon, give AJ at least a month, if he really is done with his site then there's no problem. Right now it seems like the kind of thing people do to extort money by grabbing movie title domains, or scammers that grab common misspellings of popular sites.

Later,
Marty

 

[Flying Dutchman]

'What's In A Name' .. once again, it's the members that make a good community ..

If they're dedicated and willingly to put effort into it, it will be 'alive and kickin', if not, it dies a silent death.

So keep everyone together by choosing a new name I would always prefer above loosing dedicated and knowledgable members by keeping an old name/fame alive.

'Think About It ..'.

 

[Phoenixx]

Maybe he has been on vacation?

Exactly what i was thinking. Just forgot to say it. Its shortly after xmas for Gods sake, many people go skiing or whatever during the last weeks of the old year and the first weeks of the new year,...

As for the name grab, it was done way too soon,

It wasnt only done 'way too soon' with regards to VPFs unexpected outage. It is true of course, but that was only coincidence. It was actually done, all silently of course, while VPF was still online! In other words they intended to make a new 'vpforums' all along and then they expected us, the community, to applaud their idea, turn our backs on AJ and the real VPF, and happily go to theirs instead as if nothing happened!

And if that isnt like spitting AJ right in the face then what is. And whats even worse, it is the STAFF that is doing it! I mean, can you believe it? Thats what AJ gets for entrusting his place to certain people! All of a sudden they get all drunk with power, want more, 'take matters into their own hands', declare you obsolete, and before you know it, in this case literally before you know it, youre out and they happily pretend to be the very place youve kept alive for so long often on your own money! Now thats loyalty and gratefulness for ya! Or does anyone really believe it is pure coincidence that they grabbed exactly another 'vpforums' domain? There would have been *thousands* of possibilities and there still are. One had to be pretty blind not to see that this is all well thought through and simply part of their plan to inherit VPFs status in the community. Because they know damn well what happens to most new VP sites, theyll be getting a couple of members tops and then either stay on that level or die a silent unnoticed death of irrelevance. And how much fun is that?

Seriously, if this is what theyre doing then they might as well have just hacked their way into VPFs database and deleted AJs account in order to seize all power and prevent AJ from ever accessing his own place again. All for the good of the community of course. In practice this would have had the same effect, and from a moral and ethical point of view it wouldnt have been much different either,...



In my opinion, PinballNirvana is a more-than-good-enough replacement for VPForums in case AJ really throws in the towel. Therefore, if VPF really dies, it should be allowed to die in dignity without a bunch of vultures feasting on its remains. The vast majority of regulars already has accounts here at PN anyway, and the number is increasing by 10 or more every day. This means the continuity of the community is secure, and therefore a new forum really not needed at this point. Much less one that is supposed to be built on such disrespect and perfidy. Like i said, no matter what comes i for one will have no part of it if it is done without AJs consent, even if it means that im no longer a member of this community. My dignity and self-respect are more important to me,...i have looked the other way too many times for too long already,...

 

[TheMcD]

First of all, thank you for the kind words you have for me, Phoenixx.

Second of all... honestly, I don't want to reply anymore. The amount of hostility here is just getting out of hand. I think I'll have to wait until it cools down here.... even if I think that I might as well wait for Randy to come back...

The McD

P.S. This will be my last post for a while. I just don't want to look at this madness anymore.

 

[yogiholzer]

Come on, this all is absolutely ridiculous! It's only about the naming of a new forum.

Name it this way or that way, the accusation to copy a site (without to copy it's design and without the claim to be the original) and to steal contents can always come up.

The point is, that VPF didn't fulfil the needs of the members anymore, mainly because of the absence of the site owner and the lack of maintaining, independent of it's history and it's achievements, even if it comes back anytime. The belief/faith in it's existence is nearly finally gone and a reliable replacement is wished by many people, not only exactly since the last unattainability of VPF.

I just wish all the contents (threads and posts) of VPF were still available.

PN complies with the requirements to become successor of VPF, but if there's another attempt to create a nice place, what's wrong about? It doesn't harm at all, or? The different domain makes sure that it's another different place than VPF.

Phoenixx reaction was predictable and some comprehensible after Toms laugh at him, while Toms provocation is a mystery to me, but either approaches are completely absurd and useless.

Let's keep peaceful here and master all discords that come up from time to time successfully.

 

[TedB]

There are a couple of forums I post in and visit regularly. Vpforums is one of them. None of the other forums has a webmaster that is as non-responsive as AJ for such a long time. Normally server crashes are solved very quick, they answer to questions about possible improvements etc.
AJ definitely lost interest in the site / community a long time ago. That is why I think vpforums.org seems to be a good idea.
The unsupportive attitude by some here will make it harder to make it a succes, but we'll see.

I like pinballnirvana, but there is something about the lay-out/navigation that doesn't appeal to me. That said, Jon is doing a great job so I don't mind if this will be the new vp home.

Second of all... honestly, I don't want to reply anymore. The amount of hostility here is just getting out of hand.

Too bad you feel that way TheMcD. I guess there are too many fundamentalists on board that are taking stuff much too seriously. Some cooling down period for them would be in all of our interest.

 

[TheMcD]

Come on, this all is absolutely ridiculous! It's only about the naming of a new forum.

Name it this way or that way, the accusation to copy a site (without to copy it's design and without the claim to be the original) and to steal contents can always come up.

The point is, that VPF didn't fulfil the needs of the members anymore, mainly because of the absence of the site owner and the lack of maintaining, independent of it's history and it's achievements, even if it comes back anytime. The belief/faith in it's existence is nearly finally gone and a reliable replacement is wished by many people, not only exactly since the last unattainability of VPF.

I just wish all the contents (threads and posts) of VPF were still available.

PN complies with the requirements to become successor of VPF, but if there's another attempt to create a nice place, what's wrong about? It doesn't harm at all, or?

Phoenixx reaction was predictable and some comprehensible after Toms laugh at him, while Toms provocation is a mystery to me, but either approaches are completely absurd and useless.

Let's keep peaceful here and master all discords that come up from time to time successfully.

Thanks for that. Thanks for writing what I couldn't type myself because I felt it would only sound like I was only defending the .org because I am part of it.

It's just a name.

The McD

 

[da_prez]

no offense to anyone here, but how'd AJ end up with VPF ?

wasn't there some big dust up with shiva that caused AJ to even be in control of it ?

because I know for sure it was shiva's first even called "shivaSite", as in yogi's picture, but the details escape me at the moment.

 

[yogiholzer]

@ TheMcD: Nose after the wind directed? Come on and post your personal thoughts instead of to chicken out. What to lose? There's no right or wrong and anyone is allowed to have his/her own opinion.

 

[yogiholzer]

Thanks for that. Thanks for writing what I couldn't type myself because I felt it would only sound like I was only defending the .org because I am part of it.

It's just a name.

The McD

I didn't know that you are part of it!

 

[m4paws]

Thanks for that. Thanks for writing what I couldn't type myself because I felt it would only sound like I was only defending the .org because I am part of it.

It's just a name.

To me the name swiping is offensive, but the fact that VPF staff members and admin were the driving force behind the whole thing is the real nasty part. Any regular member creating a replacement forum would never have been an issue. But the staff of VPF actively scheming to steal it's name and it's membership while VPF was still an active concern ... wow, I'm just speechless. I'm with Phoenixx on this one.

Were I a conspiracy theorist, it would seem like the VPForums.org crew would be the people who had the most to gain from VPForums.com being hacked, if indeed it was hacked. They'd certainly be the primary suspects, even if innocent.

All that being said, if it's all innocent and above board as has been claimed then I wish the project well - especially if the original VPForums is indeed gone. Unfortunately, you never get a second chance to make a first impression, and the first impression isn't good.

 

[bob]

I think the only problem is the name of the new forum.... A bad choice in retrospect, but I don't think that Val or Noah had any devious takeover plans.

It's amazing that whenever someone tries to do something positive for the community that it almost always has negative reactions. I would think that Phoenixx would understand this more than most as his VIP had/has more than a few detractors.

Val and Noah, how much did it cost to get those domain names? If it wasn't too much, could you possibly acquire another one that differs from VPF to appease the nay sayers?

 

[bob]

BTW, you guys are insinuating that I am in some devious plot to steal something.... I'm ON the VPF staff and I'm NOT on the new forums staff.

 

[yogiholzer]

@ bob: Good idea, anyway!

 

[yogiholzer]

BTW, you guys are insinuating that I am in some devious plot to steal something.... I'm ON the VPF staff and I'm NOT on the new forums staff.

No!

 

[m4paws]

BTW, you guys are insinuating that I am in some devious plot to steal something.... I'm ON the VPF staff and I'm NOT on the new forums staff.

I didn't mean the entire VPForums.com staff, just the staffers that are involved in VPForums.org. Sorry, I didn't mean to implicate you.

 

[TheMcD]

I didn't know that you are part of it!

Yeah, that's the interesting thing, right? It all started when I was talking about how I was researching VPF's history. Then I got a PM telling me about the new project and asking if I could compile a history for the new members to read. I accepted, I was made part of the team. As you know, I started a thread about the history and didn't get far since I'm not on my laptop but on my old PC which is a pain in the ass to use.

So after a while, nothing special happened and then VPF.com went down. So I went over to PN. A few days later I got a PM saying I could now log in at VPF.org. So I did that and started planning stuff out with the others. And now we're here, discussing this pile of stinking bullcrap.


My honest and heartfelt opinion, which would be the same even if I never was part of it is very simple: It's just a fucking name. Putting up a new site is nothing to get riled up about, correct? Correct. There's nothing bad about it, it isn't as if there was "betraying" going on due to that. Just another site that strived to provide what VPF.com wasn't able to due to absentness of the owner.

So, this whole disussion is basically built upon how we "betrayed", "backstabbed" and other nice words, AJ because we called the site vpforums.org. So if we called it FTDVPAOEAP.org (Forums to discuss Visual Pinball and other Emulators and Pinball), nobody seemingly wouldn't gotten pissed off. There was no plan to replace VPF.com, not at all. We simply would have co-existed. There is no profit whatsoever in VPF.com going down as we might have lost many members that didn't know about PN (even though I don't think that are many). I would agree that "betrayal" etc. would be a fitting term if we actually would personally profit from the new site, but guess what: We don't.

It was a plan to add to the community with another website.

I do not feel that PN and VPF.com were completely enough. There was a lack of a working high score program, the tables were split over the place. I felt that another website would help the community.

Once again, I don't think that a name actually carries much merit. I don't think that a name should be only for one site only. Both sites do not profit from anything.

I don't trust something just because of a name. I take a closer look and try it out, then I make my opinion. Metaphor: Just because a candidate's name is Barack Obama, I don't vote for him. I look at his plans, listen to his speeches. Then I decide if I would vote for him or not. If in 20 years or so, another candidate with the same name comes up. Would I vote for him just because I remember his name from somebody else? Fuck no. Once again, I repeat what I did before and decide that he's a complete jackass and has nothing in common with his namesake. Do I know that before? No.

What I'm trying to say is that we should have no advantage whatsoever due to our name. We chose the name because we are A VISUAL PINBALL FORUM, short VPForums or VPF.

I also think that this whole discussion is a pile of steaming bullshit and is only up to AJ to decide. He is the only one who should decide now.

And I didn't have my hands in the name, I did not decide it, it was decided before I came into the program.

Thank you very much, I'll have to go cool off now.

The McD

 

[TomcatLeader]

It's not hard at all to get into the DNS on the server and create havoc. If you can get in, you can alter the settings for DNS, including the deletion of websites within DNS. I've learned this from my instructors. Some hackers do become Certified Ethical Hackers for the Government. If someone did get totally pissed off and hacked VPF, the obvious question would be "Who did it?".

 

[TedB]

Usually people don't like changes. It is a well known fact in change management. This is a fine example of the problems people run in to trying to do something for the better.
I've seen it on my work and in my private life. There are always people that tend not to welcome changes, even very good ones and are looking for excuses to stop or delay progress.

Really I hope the vpforums.org team continues the project without any delay and wish them all the best. I will register for sure, because I'm very curious about the lay-out and possibilities of the new forum.

 

[yogiholzer]

I don't care who is on staff at a new forum. I just only decide if I like the new place or not, so I don't think it's such an interesting thing, if you're on staff or not. Sorry, but I don't mean to offend you. It's just as it is. And I appreciate you efforts, same as the others efforts.

Don't worry about the name! Maybe it's unlucky, but it needs any name! It doesn't make a great difference, if it's called different and I don't think it's up to AJ to decide! That would only be an additional tribute.

You have to go cool off now? Why? There's nothing you should feel like that only because of posting your thoughts. It was my intention to make you post anything like that and it was from successs and I think, it was good to provoke you.

About VP history I think I have equiped you with some helpful information.

Keep up your good work about VP/VPM/VPF!

 

[SUPERFITTER]

Dumb question, what is AJ's Name? I know he lives in California.

 

[da_prez]

ahhhh ... changed my mind

 

[m4paws]

Dumb question, what is AJ's Name? I know he lives in California.

http://www.networksolutions.com/whois-search/vpforums.com

 

[yogiholzer]

So what's up with *.org or *.net? Probably the longer you wait the longer it takes to become approved.