Will Future Pinball cause a technology split?

[Shockman]

Randy said he was blown away by some of the things that has been done with VP. I don't think this is going to be the case with FP and it's crew. A ramp in VP can be a ramp, a slanted line, a slanted floor, a side rail, a slanted plastic. A ramp in Future Pinball is in the future and will probably be what Black said VP ramps should be (never narrower than a ball, and only used for ramps).
As I said, it looks like it would be easy to make good looking tables, but given one table, I don't think someone can make it better than anyone else. It seems to me to be more like one table, broken down, which can be put back together in a different layout, skin, and sound set. Sure I could redo MMPAC in FP and it might look better than the VP version, but so could everyone else, and any that work the same, will look the same, given the same graphics.
But then what do I do with it? I could not share it at the FP site due to the rules there.
Some folks are going to dig the sound of that, some won't.

But how is feedback going to go over? Already I asked about leaf switches, and was surprised to learn what seems to be that they have to be inside the rubber (function, not display) and not behind it. That would work, it does with VP, but I expected more from FP, I thought the rubbers would bend enough to trigger those switches, not check for a hit at each point on the rubber band that has a switch there.

I wonder what will come first, a simple freeze function for Jumpman to finish it off, or ramps for FP to keep it rolling.

This all is not in response to FP, I have jet to see it, but to the hype, and the manual.

 

[destruk]

Future Pinball does have an animated model called "Drop Target" - however, since the script can't drop a target, and a solenoid can't drop a target, along with the other limitations pertaining to how the drop target and bank are implemented, it's not what I would consider a drop target...it's definately different from how visual pinball would handle it. The only thing the script can do to a drop target is raise it....and back to the strict field checking, it can only raise up at this time, and get dropped after being hit by a ball. (no idea which ball hit it, or how hard the target was hit, but the ball is the same as all the other balls)... Just a guess, but it looks like the drop target as well as standup target sizing per piece is on a per-model basis.

I'll go crawl into hibernation now and see what happens.

 

[PacDude]

No forced drop "down" for a drop target in FP? (standard practice on many real machines) That would be strange to overlook.

 

[Guest]

No forced drop "down" for a drop target in FP? (standard practice on many real machines) That would be strange to overlook.

Hmmmm...
Interesting.
I know that I personally never considered "forced" dropping of targets.
EM mentality you see.
Will have to mention that one to Black.

 

[scapino]

It is important. Some machines reset the exact state of the drop targets between balls, which requires a solenoid to knock individual drop targets down. Fathom comes to mind. Both the top and right side banks do this. Ball drains, whole bank resets up, then the individual drops that were down are knocked back down.

Kurt

 

[Shockman]

Then there are the multi player games, or does FP support that? If it does, it won't do it very well if you can't reset the drops.

 

[Guest]

Manualy dropping "drop targets" is now supported when the first version is released.

 

[scapino]

As Mr. Burns would say...... EXXXXXCELLLENT! :)

This is a LARGE improvement, as it probably has the same funcionality as dropable walls, in VP!
Cant believe it wasnt in from the begining. :)

Kurt

 

[destruk]

Thanks Leo - maybe the other things could at least be considered, like the grid line options? Now all those gottlieb games, zaccaria, and even rollercoaster tycoon which have that feature as well, could be attempted, or similar original games could be done. Thanks.

 

[Guest]

This is a LARGE improvement, as it probably has the same funcionality as dropable walls, in VP!
Kurt

Errr....
Not really. It is just a script command that makes the drop target model object drop from the script instead of having a ball have to hit it.
There are no drop walls in FP.

Thanks Leo...

Better thank Black actually. As I didn't get a chance to talk with him so, I guess he must "cruise" these forums from time to time.

 

[Shockman]

This is a LARGE improvement, as it probably has the same funcionality as dropable walls, in VP!
Kurt

Errr....
Not really. It is just a script command that makes the drop target model object drop from the script instead of having a ball have to hit it.
There are no drop walls in FP.

Thanks Leo...

Better thank Black actually. As I didn't get a chance to talk with him so, I guess he must "cruise" these forums from time to time.

Whatever. VP probably did dropwalls with drop targets in mind.

 

[destruk]

ok then, thanks Black. :)

 

[scapino]

Are drop targets only limited to a fixed size and shape then?

Kurt

Errr....
Not really. It is just a script command that makes the drop target model object drop from the script instead of having a ball have to hit it.
There are no drop walls in FP.

 

[tiltjlp]

Well, in a week or so we'll find out, won't we? Although it sounds as if FP is more "show and flash" than substance. Seems to be a lot of defaults without the flexibility to transform the "standard" table into your our creation.

John

 

[tiltjlp]

Well, in a week or so we'll find out, won't we? Although it sounds as if FP is more "show and flash" than substance. Seems to be a lot of defaults without the flexibility to transform the "standard" table into your own unique creation.

John

 

[Guest]

Are drop targets only limited to a fixed size and shape then?

Kurt

As of the first release yes. You can still put whatever texture on them you like though.

Tiltjlp:
We have tried to get as many of the most common pinball parts as possible for the first release. Things will no doubt be added as time goes on. Updated model and texture libraries will be released as required.
It is logical to assume that in the beginning things will be a tad limited.
However if you are looking to be able to create a table with all sorts of fantasy toys and parts then I guess you will be let down.
Remember "negative" John:
This is a first beta release.
VP also was very limited in what you could do upon it's first release before becoming the great program it is now.
You have to crawl before you walk, walk before you run.

 

[tiltjlp]

Are drop targets only limited to a fixed size and shape then?

Kurt

As of the first release yes. You can still put whatever texture on them you like though.

Tiltjlp:
We have tried to get as many of the most common pinball parts as possible for the first release. Things will no doubt be added as time goes on. Updated model and texture libraries will be released as required.
It is logical to assume that in the beginning things will be a tad limited. However if you are looking to be able to create a table with all sorts of fantasy toys and parts then I guess you will be let down.
Remember "negative" John:
This is a first beta release.
VP also was very limited in what you could do upon it's first release before becoming the great program it is now.
You have to crawl before you walk, walk before you run.

Now Leon, if you've even looked at any of my tables, you should know I'm the last person to add toys of any sort to my work. But I do make counter top games and other non-tradtional type games, which require non-standard sized playfields and table dimensions. I also use a lot of kickers, disabling and enabling them and their timers as I need, and all from the script. I also use dropping and rising walls in many of my tables, and that won't be available, so I'm not being negative, just realistic.

All I know is that even with my limited skills I can and have made all these kinds of tables with VP, and it sounds as if I won't be able to make at least some of them with FP. I understand that most all programs have to evolve, so I'll be willing to wait and see if FP evolves into a program that I can use for my flipperless and non- traditional tables. What you keep calling negative is simply wondering how user-friendly FP will be for someone who doen't make cookie cutter tables.

John

 

[Gottlieb]

You have to shit in your diapers before you're potty trained too. So where does FP fall on the scale between sitting in your excrement and crawling?

At first I thought FP would be great for beginners, they can use ready made 3d models, shiny chrome, reflections, and cool lighting effects, how could you not make a great looking table? And then I saw several tables made using low res images, flyer scans, etc and I realize I was mistaken. You can make some really ugly tables in FP. Every defect in the image is magnified a thousand times. Now I do plan to buy a new vid card soon so I can get better performance in FP but I doubt seriously I will be making any recreations in it. Not unless it supports reel animation and full screen overlays. Maybe FP 7 will do the trick? Now I would use it to make originals. It would save me a lot of time using pre-rendered objects.