920

[shiva]

Then your blind as a bat then Post. Especially now days, where I am as distintive as Kurts tables, the two of us do tables so different from anyone else, and from each other that it's impossible to not know.

Kurt and I both did our own version of PlayBoy, and there's a couple other versions out there as well, but no one will have a problem reconizing who's version is who's, especially Kurts with his rendered version, and mine, with the painted art style. Now I have decided to take it up a notch with me, there's a new completely redone version I'm working on, but I can assure you NO ONE will have a problem reconizing that it came from me.

Funny you mentioned StarTrek, that was another one of them, and I doubt that there is any person out there that would confuse my version with any one's else.

Power Play, Kiss, even the Sorcerer table, (despite the fact I did it with VP4!) People know I do certain things, and though I have been copied a lot by other people, people take one look at my tables and they know who did it.

Phoennix, not a great attitude, and you have a point to a certain degree, but this situation is far different, and the fact is they removed any possible material I did that may be considered copyrighted (and may not be actually, as it was redrawn and could be considered artistic), but kept all of my stuff.

It's not that, it's not the money or the bitching, it's the principal. You have to stand up for what is right and what you believe in, even if you know you are gonna take the extra licks because of it. I've just gone through 6 years of hell in my RL, and thankfully, it will be over real soon, but even if it goes another 6 years, I will take it.

After all, and though this may not be a popular concept at other places, I feel I should have the right to at least keep one principal in my life

 

[Phoenixx]

Honestly shiva, i was just globally speaking and had not you or your problems with GVR in mind. Not at all. My word.

(Your case would be something else anyway, because in that case they would make profit of work that in fact you did and that changes a few things,...)


Thanks for recognizing that i have a point though,...i am sure that many wont like what i said, but thats just like it is, even if i was maybe a bit harsh with the way how i expressed it,...but the fact itself stays the same either way,...

 

[Leo_Wanker]

Now everyone knows I have NO love for that crazy arse cracker Shockman but, for once I have to agree with him.

Posty and Stevoz you have both taken quite a big leave of your senses.
It now appears you guys are quite willing to bend rules to cater to whatever Pacdude wants lest he leaves.
If he leaves it seems quite obvious you guys know what shreds of VP are left will be gone.
Pacdudes tables say quite clearly "FREE TO MOD".
You have BOTH now exceded you mandate as moderators.
Yes, I know your not a moderator or admin here Posty but, you made comment and as you ARE a mod/admin of VPF then your opinions carry over.

It would seem that Pacdude is now officially sacrosanct.
He can do what ever he wishes to whomever and the rules will be adjusted to suit him.
I spent about an hour the other day catching up on the VPF (never get that back) and I saw no less than 6 times where Pacdude insulted other forum members contrary to the "rules".
I dare say nothing was done about that eh?
I have alway suported the admins of all the forums I frequent.
You guys have lost your grip.(probably driven mad by Shockman) Catering for one at the expense of many.

 

[StevOz]

Care to quote what rules were bent Leon or you just intend to rant on in your usual inane manner?

As for the shockmods, it is clear that on at least one if not more of his mods he did ignored the original authors mod guidelines and he cannot be trusted in this regard, I'm not about to download each and every pathetic mod to find out.

 

[StevOz]

Oh I see, phoenixx is gracing us with his presence, and long winded posts, that as usual prove nothing.

Let's see are you saying we authors show the original table manufactures no respect? I'd say it was quite the opposite, imitation the sincerest form of flattery, not only that but we include their original trademarks, even in my originals I do this, heck I even named the tables after the original arcade games.

 

[Shockman]

Guidlines? 'Oz you are talking about someone that took a useful piece of work away from everyone and uses it in his scripts. I agree with Leon, and Bob, and Phoenixx, and shiva, and elton, and the many more English literate people here, the lions share of people here. And at VPF too, you obviously fear.
I told you we could work this out, with the result these mods taken down, if you would only do your part in getting PacDude to restore the work I did for the community. You owe me to restore my membership, right now. Everyone knows that, including you and Peter.

 

[Shockman]

If you restore my membership I will erase all mods of PacDudes work, and I will express my opinion of what he did to my work at VPF. That is fair, just ask anyone. It is more than fair, as I followed the rules of authorization, just not all his suggestions. Still I will erase every one as soon as I see that my membership is back, before I post there.

If you are not a coward, this is your chance to prove it.

 

[StevOz]

Too late, you've proven you cannot be trusted.

Though if you do erase them yourself, that might be a small step towards regaining that trust.

 

[Shockman]

The rules I think Leo was referencing was the rule #9 where VPM was altered, and work that was useful taken out, and the one that did it lying about why. Can you imagine what your response would have been if I had done that, I think not only you, but we all can.
Your duty is to see that we both have a chance. If one person blows that chance, or leaves it is that one that made that choice. YES I know he don't like the fact that I modded his tables. YES you know I don't like the fact that he modded my work, made my tables and others not work as designed. Yes you will hear PacDude. NO you will not hear me.
You have over stepped your bounds, as Leo said. I hope you will restore my membership this very minute. Do you really want me to delete my mods, and still let PacDude do anything that he wants to?

 

[Shockman]

I did not prove that. I modded his tables and released them with his credits. I even left his title. All I did to them was alter my code that I found in them. That is the same code that PacDude took out of the VPM program. Deleting them will be a BIG step, not towards trust, 'Oz, but for peace, and the restoration of what I should already have.

 

[Shockman]

http://www.savefile.com/projects/1059976

Check that link. There is no mods. they have been deleted. I also deleted LOTR just in case. I did not delete POTO, as that was a team effort, and given to me, but if you don't believe that, or have any other reason, just say so and I will delete that as well. Mr. & Mrs. PAC-MAN is still up. Though I made the first working table, and had releases out, it is using Gaston's script, which he gave me to use. which just happen to alias the switches to the wall numbers in the non VPM version. But PacDude calls it a mod, and for that reason, you may wish for me to take that down as well. Just say so.

This was no small step 'Oz. I think it was more than I ever should have been asked to do, by anyone, in any position. As I just deleted tables that I only altered the code I gave to the community and PacDude took away. It was no small step. Restoring my work to the community would have been a small step and ask anyone.

I hope you will now keep your word. This was not my idea, it was your demand.

 

[Leo_Wanker]

Care to quote what rules were bent Leon or you just intend to rant on in your usual inane manner?

Rant?
Na.
I've stated my opinion that is all I wanted to do.
Nor did I have any expectation that you would change your mind.
I don't need to quote rules because you know EXACTLY what I am talking about which means you are:
A) in denial
B) being obtuse

"FREE TO MOD"

Look up the word free in the dictionary Steve.

BTW I have just noticed that Paccy has changed the wording of his "modding disclaimer" in his latest release. Therein an admission that his previous incarnation of said "disclaimer" was not up to scratch.

However I know why you won't do what is right in this instance.
You are frightened.
You are fearful that if you don't give Pacdude what he wants he will "spit his dummy in the dirt" and remove his tables and stop making any more thus leaving you and the other admins subject to the wrath of the "gimme gimme them Romz Tablez" crew.
You and the other admins would have to face that "blast furnace"
Better to give paccy what he wants eh?
Thank-you and farewell.

P.s.
Shockman don't think for one instance that just because I agree with one point that you do makes me think of you as anything more than a complete "Arse Clown".

 

[Shockman]

Yeah, I know. I don't like you either, but as I have said before, you speak your mind, are usually right, and never waffle, and I do respect that.

 

[Shockman]

However, I think you showed a bit of fear of conformity yourself, when you did not speak up and say 'what the fuck man, he said talk to the finger, why edit his posts' for I think that would be you, had it not been for you looking out for another person percieved as needed. Maybe you really supported Black in his announced plans of dumbing VP down, If you did you were right, if you didn't you were wrong. Most of us didn't, but we, on the other hand weren't wrong, because we did not attack everyone that voiced anything against the man. You're a great table builder, you just came across as a personal thug for the man.

 

[shiva]

Your both arse clowns, but even then I still agree. I should, wasn't this exactly what I said would happen 2 years ago? In fact, the same people argued I was off my rocker, and as a ironic statement, aren't they the ones that turned out to be the same people that are responsible for what I was arguing against in the first place? Phoenixx, no worries. It's about respect, even when you argue with me, it's about respect, something certain other people should have learned a long time ago. Now it's just a belittlement, they pull it out every time they know they are wrong, they start that up every time.

Shocky, you are wrong to turn around and do what you accuse other people of doing to you. Period. No justification what so ever, and all it does is lower yourself to their level. It's a loss of respect there man, and you fell for it hook line and sinker. Would have thought that you would have clued in by now the standard tactics, after all, there's loads of examples out there of authors who have had it done to them. SDB, Stein, Black, Randy, rob, KC, and many others, and where are they now? You can add the 20 plus authors who jumped shipped to FP as soon as possible, despite the fact it just isn't that good compared to VP (I will add the word yet just for Leo's benefit). Heard you lost another one this week as well.

How many more guys? You don't think that every author that isn't under a contract with UC isn't just a bit nervous now about the sorcerer situation (those of course that still remain, which I would guess I could count with one hand), and how about the fact that in another thread here, the head admin of the site that has rules designed to protect those authors, even if it's in a minor way, refused to do so because he would rather have a personal vendetta than do what is right, especially with rules he helped write himself.

That really makes me real confident personally. I'm very happy I don't go there, we all know PacDude runs the place, and that's fine. If people are willing to accept that, all the power to them, they can play his tables and only his tables for the next 25 years. Because that's pretty much the way it's turning out isn't it?

 

[Shockman]

I did not do what I accused others of. I modded the tables knowing it would piss him off, but that was not the reason I did them. I did them to showcase my flipper fix improvements in tables that used the code.

He took my work out of the core.vbs file.
I took this up with him and the VPF staff. He made excuses that were lies and the site supported him and sanctioned it.

What he did made not only mine, but other tables have a problem that his did not because he used my fix in another form, a form that he also learned from me. He tampered with VPM to achieve this.

That don't make me a ass clown. I don't care what you say about this. I respect you as an otherwise wise man, and the among the best at this hobby, but it just don't make me an ass clown, insubordinate, or a trouble maker to want to have this fixed. It makes me a contributing member wanting his contributions to not be stolen, and used by the same person that stoled it.

Yes, I have been too gullible, but I can't change my nature, especially when staffers are telling me things that make me feel good. Everyone wants to feel good, and everyone wants to believe people when they say they are focusing on the positive, giving you a chance, and giving you back what they have promised to many times. I think they are getting real close to teaching me that I can not trust them, but they are not quite there yet. It's too hard to understand how one person in a group would do that to another. I think they are angry because I am bold enough to speak my mind and I disagree with them on many things. I feel like snowball sometimes, like I should just run off. But then I never understood why he did.

 

[Phoenixx]

Oh I see, phoenixx is gracing us with his presence, and long winded posts, that as usual prove nothing.

Oh, i guess they do prove one or two things. Definitely. And IMO it is not even that hard to see what it is,...

Let's see are you saying we authors show the original table manufactures no respect?

No, you dont, because you flat out IGNORE their legally valid copyrights and illegally use their copyrighted material anyway! So whatever you like to call it, it is definitely not 'respect'! It is copyright infringement, illegal and criminal and this simply IS not very 'respectful'!

(Man, man, man,...some people,...you really gotta wonder if they need a calculator to count 2+2 together,... )

we |[who exactly is 'we?]| include their original trademarks, even in my originals I do this, heck I even named the tables after the original arcade games.

How generous from you! But unfortunatly this is entirely irrelevant because it doesnt change the fact that you are using their material illegally and unauthorized by one bit! So instead of hearing about how you generously name your tables like the original machines that you have no rights on i would rather know who has given you the allowance to use that material to begin with? Who exactly was it that told you that you can use all these images to make your own thing and then release it to the public? Which one of the actual c-right holders was it that authorized you to use their property and their brand? Tell me, im curious. Im sure you didnt even ever ask any of the original authors, so youre using their stuff ILLEGALLY because you dont CARE for their c-rights, thats a FACT and NO argument in the world will EVER change this! Respect? Yeah, exactly,...at least you could admit that you dont give a damn for their wishes, means for their c-rights which explicitely FORBID you to use this material without authorisation! It would make you look much less like a hypocrite and a lot more like somebody who is at least still aware of what they are actually doing here,...

imitation the sincerest form of flattery,

Ah, is that so? Well, i guess i start to build Porsches then,...or better Ferraris?,...who would argue or have objections,...after all, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery as we know, and that makes it perfectly legal to use their properties unauthorizedly for my own purposes,...


Seriously,...stop it already, Steve,...nobody can be that dumb and i know that you arent. You know exactly what im talking about and you know that im right,...this fact cant even be argued, so to play the get-nix only insults the intelligence of both of us,...

 

[Phoenixx]

we all know PacDude runs the place, and that's fine. If people are willing to accept that, all the power to them, they can play his tables and only his tables for the next 25 years.

Nah,...thats not really true,...in fact he is only showing up quite rarely lately and even if he wouldnt come there anymore at all it wouldnt change anything of the 'daily-routine'. There are dozens of others who are coming every day, many newbies are coming for help, and in the outlane are usually a few new threads per day too. So if one person doesnt come anymore it will hardly have any effect on the usual daily routine,...and others are making tables too, and even if no tables were released anymore at all the forums would stay alive anyway,...no doubt about that,...

 

[Shockman]

OK we all don't know that. Almost all then.
Look Phoenixx. He said he should take my contribution out of the community, and that I should not be able to touch his work. He threatened to leave if he did not get his way and to take his tables with him. It's not about how often you are on line.

 

[shiva]

we all know PacDude runs the place, and that's fine. If people are willing to accept that, all the power to them, they can play his tables and only his tables for the next 25 years.

Nah,...thats not really true,...in fact he is only showing up quite rarely lately and even if he wouldnt come there anymore at all it wouldnt change anything of the 'daily-routine'. There are dozens of others who are coming every day, many newbies are coming for help, and in the outlane are usually a few new threads per day too. So if one person doesnt come anymore it will hardly have any effect on the usual daily routine,...and others are making tables too, and even if no tables were released anymore at all the forums would stay alive anyway,...no doubt about that,...

Really? I was wondering why the admins there were coming here making trouble when they should just stick to their own place. Since he is not around (it is the 6 month time that he does his annual hissy fit and threatens to leave isn't it?) must be real quiet there and they got bored or something.

Can't hide the fact there are very few authors left though. I see at FP forums a lot of new authors that sort of magically appeared out of now where, some very good ones at that. A lot of old names as well there. Shame.

"You give someone enough rope, they will hang themselves."

 

[Phoenixx]

Sorry Shockman, but i guess i didnt quite understand what you were trying to say. Could you please rephrase?



P.S.: Asides from PD altering the VBS only to 'let you have it' i think it is a crying shame what they did and still do to you here,...

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

lol... it's no use, phoenix.

shiva decided a long time ago how things were at VPF and since then has never let reality prevent him from maintaining his almighty opinion.

as for the VBS file thing... i don't see that anyone has any grounds to blame anyone else about how the VBS files are maintained. there are no rules to cover it that i know of... no process in place. AFAIK it's between the VBS team (or what's left of it) and the maintainer (we know who that is).

if the maintainer wants to change the VBS files for any old reason AFAIK it's his perogative. the only consequence he might have to face is if he does something that breaks functionality, in which case a lot of people would get mad at him. AFAIK he hasn't done that either.

 

[Shockman]

As Admins. it is their duty, and should be their desire to have all of us there and let the ones that want to go go, not make the ones the ones that threaten to leave if they let the ones they want to go stay. There should be a reason for them banning me this time, and it should not be that I am doing the same thing that PacDude is. If the place is that fragile, that they think another person leaving because another is going to be there, then shiva is not only right, but has always been. They should just close it down and call it over if that is going to drive their decisions on who is welcome there. When a mild manured person like Phoenixx, a waffler like Bob, someone as new as elton, and even an enemy like leon think I'm right and don't think maybe, then I think I'm right to. Still I did what they said I had to, I deleted my mods that were pre authorized, but I guess PacDude still over rode their decision. I'll remind you that pacDude first threatened to leave and take his tables with him if they let me back, even before I modded the first table, because I was complaining about him taking my work away from everyone else and having it in each of his scripts.

Look at what they base their decisions on. They bend over backwards for a guy that did that, come here and try to redefine not only the word free, but authorization, tell me what I need to do, and after I do it, are gone, seeing if they can clear it with PacDude, or if he would still leave is where the smart money is.

We will know when 'Oz posts again. If it's an 'OK, you did what I asked, you did your part, I lifted the ban' Then PacDude said he will stay. If he comes back and says he can't trust me to keep my word, even after I did what he demanded I do, with me still thinking I was right to do it, then PacDude is still saying if I am there, he is gone.

 

[Shockman]

lol... it's no use, phoenix.

shiva decided a long time ago how things were at VPF and since then has never let reality prevent him from maintaining his almighty opinion.

as for the VBS file thing... i don't see that anyone has any grounds to blame anyone else about how the VBS files are maintained. there are no rules to cover it that i know of... no process in place. AFAIK it's between the VBS team (or what's left of it) and the maintainer (we know who that is).

if the maintainer wants to change the VBS files for any old reason AFAIK it's his perogative. the only consequence he might have to face is if he does something that breaks functionality, in which case a lot of people would get mad at him. AFAIK he hasn't done that either.

Many people did not upgrade because they know exactly what he did. I unlike you care about everyone, those that get the files and tables and never post, and you know that that is almost everyone. It does break functionality and you know that. It broke the function in mine and I told you that when you were head Admin. There is a rule. rule number nine. It says that you can not hack VP or VPM. He did not do this as a maintainer of that file, he was able to because he was but you know he did it out of spite because I did not like the fact that the credit was going to him. It was put in for the good of the community, and only you, and 'Oz and Peter can not understand that. There is also a rule, I don't know the number, but I think it is also #9 that says you can not do anything to harm the community, and breaking the function of the ball through the flipper fix does just that. Even 'Oz said that it set VPM back and he did not update his. Do you think anyone in the know said well it's new, I know what is changed, so I am going to upgrade? I think not. I think the only ones that is going to get that file is people you don't care about. People that are never going to contribute money to the site. I care about them as well, because a few of them might be playing my table and get balls through the flipper and not know that is is not necessary, and might even just drop the program. I don't expect you to understand this, I don't expect to to care all of a sudden, but it just can't be said enough. It is ridiculous.

 

[Shockman]

Sorry Shockman, but i guess i didnt quite understand what you were trying to say. Could you please rephrase?



P.S.: Asides from PD altering the VBS only to 'let you have it' i think it is a crying shame what they did and still do to you here,...

I was disagreeing with you about PacDude running the place.
I want to thank you for what you posted, and again for not putting the hacked .vbs file in your install package.