920

bob said:
You really are quite perceptive Shocky, I can't believe you never used that ability in your favor to regain your membership.
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I did. I also used honesty, trust, and capitulation. I have given my word, taken up what I thought were offers, challenges, demands, and requests. Only to learn that my perception was mistaken, and they were all "cruel jokes".
 
Actually, Leo, I used it to indicate an evil alternate persona that certain people here seem to think exists. You're the only real joke around here.

I'd have to agree with Bob that you (Shockman) seem to show an understanding of events that tell me you SHOULD be able to see the bigger picture here, but your refusal to see things as they are tells me something else. You treat me like I was trying to steal your credit. This is just plain false because it's certainly NOT *MY* point-of-view regarding the comment wcpmame wrote. You may see it as a credit, but I and many others do not. It's an explanation for why the change was made and in that context it's 100% accurate because it's the explanation wpcmame gave. If you WANTED a credit in the files, all you had to do was ask. But instead, you decided to call me a thief and cuss me out. That was your fatal mistake and like all your fatal mistakes (that inevitably lead to you being banned either temporarily or permanantly), it's caused by your total refusal to behave in a civilized manner.

As for Bob, friends do not attack their friends based on a differing opinion about the best way to handle a conflict. If the VBS files actually did contain your code and you asked for them to be removed and that removal would screw everyone over, what else could be done but to either disrespect one or the other if no agreement can be reached? In this case, it does not matter whether I believe your claim to the code is true or not (I don't), but rather I only had two possible choices to make. One is to reward someone for behavior that would (and has) gotten you banned. VPF itself REFUSES to do that in terms of your own ban (so it would be pretty damn hypocritical to ban me for refusing to do the same thing) and the other is to remove the code that is causing the uproar.

Contrary to Bob's ranting and ravings, I was unaware that many VPM tables were even using slow settings as most of the VPM tables released or modded in past years have often indicated using either my settings or PK's settings. I do not even have all VPM tables, let alone inspect them to see whether or not they'll have an issue. Furthermore, the VBS release notes indicate the change that was made and for people that don't want that change to stick with 3.23. So I was not screwing anyone over. I was covering my end of the disagreement with Shockman and that should have shut him up (and if his tables had used faster flippers, it probably would have since he would not have noticed any difference at all).

In short and without all the insults and return insults, what I'm saying is that Bob's arguments are without merit and based on faulty assumptions. I offered to hand control of the VBS files over to someone else trustworthy to maintain and they could reverse them or do whatever they want with them as they would be in charge, not me. The people I had in mind as possibilities vehemitly DECLINED. Believe it or not, the VBS files aren't the easiest code to read and they're not much fun to maintain either and I spent a LOT of time making sure everyone that ever sent me changes or suggested changes got credit in the files. Shockman's claim does not apply as I was not in charge of the files at the time. It was wpcmame's baby then and he wrote what he wrote. I should not be responsible for someone else's comments. But yet that is precisely the blame Shockman kept putting at my door along with inflaming insults and accusations. I doubt most of the people suggesting I handled this badly would have done much better if they were the one being attacked (and the proof is that every forum except this one has permanantly banned Shockman and this one has banned him MANY times temporarily). Is that reaction really so different?
 
Apparently Hasta La Vista means, "See you later" :roll:

I see now you're trying to save face.... Just fix the files, no one's buying your bullshit lies, we knew you didn't know the facts, because you never know the facts, you're one sick human being. Fix the files and STFU.

You have always been a source of entertainment with me. I enjoy watching you paint yourself into a corner and then BS your way out of it by turning your combatant into a raving lunatic. It almost always works, you have a gift for bringing out the worst in people, you are the devils advocate. In other words.... Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.... Hypocrite.
 
Damn Pacdude. I know. I always knew. It was not you that wrote it. Ok? I know. I know wpc' did. Ok? I never said you put the code in the script. YOU DID, you said that, not me. You said you put the code and that's what you called it, but no biggie, THAT'S WHAT IT IS. You said you came up with the number. You say you don't remember who did. You say it's you, you say you don't remember who did, you say it was you you say you don't remember who did. Well I remember who did and it was not you. You remember who did because you where there and we were already going around about it. If you really don't remember then you are the one with a brain problem.
You sad that you suggested the number. You did not. I suggested the number the same day i announced the way to beat the problem. You wanted to speed it up a whopping .002 I guess because you like fast downswings anyway. You keep saying how it was before, that you used a number as fast as the one I cane up with in testing for the downswing. It has nothing to do with any upswing speed and you never mention that all the time you were using .137 for up that it was set in the editor and never in the script and that you had balls through the flipper the whole time that was the case, which was the whole time until you started using MY SUGGESTION AS A DOWN SWING SPEED the first day. It was code. LeftFlipper.Speed=.135. You had never seen that before. If you had in the core.vbs file you would have been stupid to not try in in the script as I did. You only pretend to not remember who came up with the fix and suggested the number for speed, but how could you forget? It was not until after I discovered that you went around my back and told an offline team member that you suggest that fast number replace the code in the core. You act like it would have never happened, but it was happening. I was talking to the VPM team members that was active, and on line. That's why I say you stoled it. because I discovered it and I suggested that it be put into the core before you ever knew what was going on. That's why I call you a liar, because I don't think you could forget that. Forgetting is just too easy though isn't it. No one can prove that you did not forget it. That is not forgetting, that is denial.

Peter. I see you lying at VPF. Please stop. You are going to get your way and not reinstate me, so please stop lying about it. I took down the mods as you (I almost said asked, but you did not ask or demand, you said it would be a gesture of good will) wanted taken down, and because I did, you say I was banned again after you said I was going to get another chance, because I had another alt. You knew i had that alt when you said I was going to get another chance. I did not get that chance, and instead you proved that it don't matter if the mods are authorized or not or even up or not. You both led me to believe that if I took the mods down that you would let my account stand, as you said you would anyway, perhaps I misunderstood and that is not what you were saying, but you did not say I would be banned if I refused. I took them down and I get banned for having an alt.
This makes somewhere under 328 times that you said you would let me back, let me stay when I was back, or said that if I said or did the things I did that I would be back, and somewhere under 328 times I fell for it.

G O . T E A M ! ! ! !
If that was another of your cruel jokes, and not a lie then I'm sorry, I don't see any difference.

Shockman, (bonus 2x) is banned from this forum
His willingness to use PacDudes tables as some sort of leverage to me is completely unacceptable
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But his doing the same to my work is? Like I said, I took those down, but was banned anyway.

We (the staff) wasted 12 months trying to get him to aplogize and not be the vindictive person he seems to want to be
anyone who has had the misfortune of seeing the 'debate' that was over at PN will understand
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You spent the last 12 months lying, making false promises, and pulling your word. That would make anyone a bit vindictive. I have spent the last 12 months falling for your cruel jokes, doing everything that you said needed to be done, apologized, did everything suggested, and got the head Admin. to reverse my ban. I took down the mods. I told you I understood your point, but that is no enough? I need to say that I have no, nor have ever had a point myself.
I helped a member that was having problems with controls, supported a member that wants to improve on table building, gave some opinions, and just as important, did not once bring up anything like what you say you fear I will at any chance.
You banned me for no reason. You may not have said that pulling the mods would assure that I did not get banned, but you surly did not say either that leaving them would result in a ban.

But he (Shockman) was right about one thing. since he has continued to Mod PDs tables I have come to the conclusion that he is a lost cause and that I will not be reversing his ban
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You conclude? That I am a lost cause? What cause? What are you talking about? What's cause have you? I am a member, according to the site owner, AJ, and I contribute, want to be a member, and know as much about table building as anyone else and never once kept any thing or knowledge of a thing to my self for even the briefest of time. I am a charter member, and a table builder and the best trouble shooter that the site has ever seen, and perhaps ever will. I am in to Pinball, not politics, I have to defend myself using politics a lot of the time, but I am defending my right to be. My right to exist as a member as I have from the start, not defending my right to take what I want and take from whomever I want. If you don't like the fact that I would protest when something is going wrong by anyones definition, or being one sided, for favoring one side when there is more that one side then you should accept that as life. I never protested anything that was fixed, or even considered. I protested things that were not fair in my opinion, and everyone has said one on one with me that they are indeed not fair, but as a group you can not say that. You have to support each other, right or wrong. That's what I think but that is not was I as Bonus2X said or ever intended to say. I can tell you, but I can't make you hear. I was ready to get involved in advancing this hobby that is still wide open to new possibilities. I have never once bitched about the VP program, VPM program, not the authors nor the timely or untimely releases, nor the consensus that it was probably abandoned. I have supported the program, the authors, and the community. I have had problems with the staff, because I did beat the drum against a contributer that was intent on dumbing it down, and whom also upgraded it and used that upgrade for himself, but other than that, and the opinions I gave about the restrictions that Peter said he imposed as a term on my reinstatement from a voluntary R/O, have tried to keep clear of those that want to run the place and seem to have no great interest in the hobby.
 
Congratulations, Bob. You now sound 100% exactly like Leo Wanker. I urge you to re-read what you wrote. I'm afraid YOU sound like the asshole. Oh yeah, you ARE one. That's the REAL definition of a hypocrite, BTW.

I see now you're trying to save face.... Just fix the files, no one's buying your bullshit lies, we knew you didn't know the facts, because you never know the facts, you're one sick human being. Fix the files and STFU.
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Hmmm, I'm trying to save face apparently but yet you want the files fixed, but you want to insult me, yet you want me to just STFU and fix them, yet I'm an asshole liar if I do that and yet...blah blah blah.

Sorry, Bob, but you sound terribly confused there. You're basically telling me no matter what I say or do I'm a fucking asshole, so really I'm not sure what your POINT is. We've established you think I'm the scum of the earth for simply trying to deal with a psychotic nut-job here the best way I can. I mean you sound like a fucking psychotic yourself to even suggest such a thing over such a MINOR thing where I have good cause to do what I did, but hey, if you want the world to know you're just as fucking crazy as Shockman, so be it. Why don't you show your true colors at VPF, eh???? I dare you to, you fucking coward piece of shit. I have MORE respect for Leo than I do you at this point because he will at least behave like himself both here and at VPF. You play nice at VPF but act like a fucking psychotic cock sucker here. That's not only hypocritical, but fucking pathetic to boot. My opinion of you just keeps dropping and dropping and I think it can't go any lower and then it does somehow!

You see all I'm really guilty of is trying to deal with Shockman's ranting and ravings so he'll shut the fuck up. Admittedly, it didn't work and I'm seeing now that trying to punish him will never work because he never ever UNDERSTANDS why he's being punished. This is because he's insane. That, really, is the only justification I can see to disregard him entirely and do whatever people want with the BTTF thing. Because NORMALLY, I would have to respect someone's claim that their code is either being misused, misrepresented or unwanted in the core. Thus, I'd have to either credit them, change the code or remove it entirely to address the situation. Given Shockmans' behavior, I chose to remove the code in question and try to make it work as best I could without forcing downswings. This works for many tables, but not for others with slow downswings. As I've said many times (and you continue to ignore because you're a fucking pyschotic raving asshole now just like Shockman), *NOT ONE FUCKING PERSON* (other than Shockman) has complained about their table getting fucked over by the 3.24 core!!! NOT ONE!

So again, I find your attitude to be puzzling at best and downright psychotic at worst.

I have yet to get ONE taker of my offer to turn the VBS files over to another responsible author. I've asked a couple of people personally if they'd like to take over the VBS files and they've all said NO THANKS. Some have said the equivalent of not wanting to touch them with a 10 foot pole even!

So what's really amusing to me about all this, is I took over those files because no one else would and they were NOT getting updated. Destruk and others were putting out system fixes that would get posted as attachments, but never end up in the VBS archive because wpcmame wasn't bothering to update them at all! I volunteered to do it for the good of the community. But in return, I get fucking know-it-all assholes like yourself trying to burn me at the stake for doing a job you yourself would never fucking do! Yes, you heard me. You accuse me of being this asshole person, yet you didn't volunteer to maintain the files! You haven't pointed out one stance where I myself did not give credit to someone that contributed so much as an idea to the files while I was controlling them.

In short, you're fucking full of shit, Bob. Now be a good psychotic nut job and take your blue pills.
 
I'm not quoting you this time... It's a waste of time. You are a liar, you are a dispicably vulgar person, you are a religious hypocrite, you are an egomaniac of monumental proportions, all of which make you a disgusting person.

When PK got excited about a new flipper fix, you immediately shut him up by saying you would not allow him to mod your tables. You try to bully your way of thinking onto everyone.

You said only a "few" tables were effected by your vbs changes and I told you I opened up 10 VPM tables and they were all set close to the default flipper speed and NONE of them had the flipper speed coded into the script. This was much earlier than you finally admitted that you "didn't realize" that there were more that a "few" tables efected by it. This also made you a liar at that time.

In the last week your posts have been FULL of vulgarity at a time when neither Shocky nor I was posting foul language. From your own christian standpoint.... This makes you a hypocrite.

I don't even need to explain the egomaniac attribute. Why don't you just tell everybody how great you are.... Again and again and again....

This thread will reach 10,000 replies, as long as you post your BS about me. If you post BS about me at VPF, I'll give you an education there also.

There's nothing worse then a christian hypocrite..... You cast the first stone 90% of the time. You are an embarrassment to your country, your state, your faith, your race, your masculinity, your intelligence and even your family.

Your turn....
 
Damn Pacdude. I know. I always knew. It was not you that wrote it. Ok? I know. I know wpc' did. Ok? I never said you put the code in the script. YOU DID, you said that, not me. You said you put the code and that's what you called it, but no biggie, THAT'S WHAT IT IS. You said you came up with the number. You say you don't remember who did. You say it's you, you say you don't remember who did, you say it was you you say you don't remember who did. Well I remember who did and it was not you. You remember who did because you where there and we were already going around about it. If you really don't remember then you are the one with a brain problem.
You sad that you suggested the number. You did not. I suggested the number the same day i announced the way to beat the problem. You wanted to speed it up a whopping .002 I guess because you like fast downswings anyway. You keep saying how it was before, that you used a number as fast as the one I cane up with in testing for the downswing.
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Well, you got the first few bits right, anyway.

You still are not clear on several other issues:

1> 0.137 I used was made for UPSWINGS. Okay? Got that? I never said I invented it or came up with that number originally for the purpose of DOWNSWINGS!

What I said was that when I started altering the downswings in my own tables, I knew that virtually any value above 0.8 would work just fine (from testing done by several people when you first made the problem known) and knowing that it would work just fine because it's above 0.8 or so, I used 0.137 in my own tables so that the flipper motion would look exactly *EVEN*. You got that? I wanted the upswing and down swing to move at the SAME SPEED in my tables.

Thus, my choice of 0.137 had NOTHING to do with any suggested values you may have mentioned (again, I do not recall them directly and are taking your word for what you suggested because it's been a LONG time and all I learned from that thread was that I was pretty darn safe using anything over 0.1 for sure, so why not use for down what I already was using for up?)

Is that not the least bit logical to you? Why would I take YOUR supposed value of 0.135 (which again sounds AWFULLY similar to my 0.137 UP value like you had been playing around with my flipper settings and seeing what you liked best!) and change it a lousy 0.02 in value??? I wouldn't. Hell, I'd probably use the slowest known safe value if my goal was to make the flippers look slower on the down-swing. But I wanted them to look the same in both directions.

This is EASILY verified by examining ANY table from that time period of mine that contains a copy of the VBS core solenoid code with my 0.137 value inserted into them. In fact, until recently, I used that code in ALL my tables just as a precaution against the future in case someone else took over the VBS files and used a value I didn't like (I wouldn't have to change all my tables again!)

So there was NO 'stealing' of some 0.135 value. I used my own well known 0.137 value (well known because I used it in virtually ALL my tables up to that point) because I knew it would work and it would look even in both directions.

So when I thought it might help if someone e-mailed wpcmame to include the change (long after that thread because obviously he was not changing them), I suggested the 0.137 value for the simple reason it would mean I could use the core code if I wanted to and get the SAME result as the one I was getting by including it in my tables! Why would I want to suggest someone else's value if 0.137 is the value I was using? Admittedly, I was looking after my own best interests in suggesting that value, but then it was just a suggestion and SOME value had to be chosen so why not that one?

You said yourself the difference between that and 0.135 is negligible, so why would you be upset with it except for some reason you think I purposely took your value and slightly changed it? But I've proven that's not true above. I used 0.137 because it was the value I was ALREADY using for the upswing and since I had to put in some value in my script, I used the same down as up.

So again, I say your reasoning is simply WRONG. I did not steal your value. I used the value I wanted to use.

You sad that you suggested the number. You did not. I suggested the number the same day i announced the way to beat the problem. You wanted to speed it up a whopping .002 I guess because you like fast downswings anyway. You keep saying how it was before, that you used a number as fast as the one I cane up with in testing for the downswing. It has nothing to do with any upswing speed and you never mention that all the time you were using .137 for up that it was set in the editor and never in the script and that you had balls through the flipper the whole time that was the case, which was the whole time until you started using MY SUGGESTION AS A DOWN SWING SPEED the first day. It was code.
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Now this is what I'm talking about. You are babbling on with incredibly fucked up logic. Your first two sentences are EASILY PROVEN WRONG. Ask wpcmame who suggested the 0.137 value to him to use in the VBS core!!! It wasn't *YOU*. I didn't say I found the VP problem or even invented any code. I said I SUGGESTED THE VALUE TO WPCMAME to use in the core to avoid the problem and that is 100% TRUE.

Why wouldn't I try 0.135? Why would I need to? 0.137 is faster, not slower and it matches the upswing value I was already using. You are saying the upswing value has NOTHING to do with it, but that makes no sense at all! The upswing value is *THE* flipper speed setting in the VP editor itself even! Why *WOULDN'T* I use the same flipper speed if I'm aware that it's FASTER than a known speed that already works??? That makes no sense! It's just fucking RANTING.

What you suggested at VPF has NOTHING to do with why wpcmame wrote what he wrote in that VBS file! He wrote that because I took the time to e-mail him (because he was NOT reading the forums and was NOT making changes to the VBS files based on reading the forums). Unlike you, I took it upon myself to try and get him to change the core for the benefit of EVERYONE. You didn't do that and Bob didn't do it either! If I hadn't e-mailed him, the fucking core might NEVER have gotten the change in it! Discovering the atom doesn't do much good if you can't get the word out to someone who can do something with that information!

MY SUGGESTION AS A DOWN SWING SPEED the first day. It was code.
What I recall is that your suggestion for 'code' was in KEY UP or KEY DOWN section. But only the VALUE is relevant to the bug/problem itself. How you code it is irrelevant so long as the flipper moves downward fairly fast. In short, there is more than one way to acheive the same effect with programming! I never used any key-up/key-down type code. What you did that was important was DISCOVERING THE CAUSE of the problem. I saw what that cause was and knew the best way to DEAL with it in VPM tables was to adjust the solenoid code most tables already use to use a faster down value.

NO ONE is denying your discovery, Shockman! But you claiming I used your *CODE* is just plain wrong. I used wpcmame's code to adjust his variable to use a faster value than he was already using! I neither used one bit of your code you posted, the type of code or the value you suggested! That means literally NO CODE. The only thing I used of yours, was the INFORMATION/DISCOVERY of what the cause of the BTTF problem was (well in terms of a partial fix, anyway, the REAL cause is the lack of collision detection in the downward swing, which Destruk reported!)

UNTIL you can recognize that what I've just said is undisputable 100% truth, we can NEVER move on. Because I used NO CODE of yours in any table of mine and the core never contained your code either. *I* made the suggestion to wpcmame to change the value (and THAT is all he said in that comment that had you so upset). That suggestion was BASED ON your discovery of the problem, but I e-mailed him and the change did not involve your "code" PERIOD as neither the method or value you used in your example was the same. I changed wpcmame's code to work around the problem. I did not use your code (which would not have worked as a replacement in the VBS core because it's not how his code works and it would break all tables!)

hat's why I say you stoled it. because I discovered it and I suggested that it be put into the core before you ever knew what was going on
I never said you didn't discover it. I never said I did disover it. I didn't use your posted code so who could I have stolen it? THAT makes NO SENSE.

But as for your sudden claim you suggested it be put in the VBS core, I'd like to see some proof of that. Why don't you post a link to the original thread at VPF so we can examine it?

Of course, saying it should go in the core is NOT the same as finding a *WAY* to get it into the core. Your posted code would not go straight into the core. Wpcmame's code had to be adjusted (and it was simple to adjust and I never claimed any credit for making the adjustment! I simply e-mailed the information to wpcmame to consider for inclusion!)

So basically, you're making a *HUGE* fucking deal out of NOTHING to begin with. And as I've said before, if you had just asked for a credit to be included in the VBS core, I would have done it. I've given credit for everything everyone ever sent me, so why wouldn't I do it? Oh yeah, it's because you did NOT ask, but instead chose to start RANTING and cussing me out and accusing me of stealing things! I don't imagine anyone would have reacted much differently than I did under those circumstances.

So I say again, it is YOU that are in the wrong here. You need to learn to dicuss things with people instead of cussing them out and ranting about it before you even know what's going on. But then that is how you have ALWAYS reacted to anyone that has ever disagree with you or said something that is not how you remember it.
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Damn, for a guy who said he was out of here, you sure do post alot. Would that fall under your definition of hypocrite?

Don't miss my post right above your latest book, where I explain your hypocracy.

I'm still not sure if your fixing the vbs files, you ramble on so much, no one knows what the hell you're doing. I still think it deserves a D/A as you did something detrimental to the community for spite.
 
bob said:
I'm not quoting you this time... It's a waste of time. You are a liar, you are a dispicably vulgar person
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And you are not??? The first sign of a hypocrite is someone that is AT LEAST AS VULGAR as the person they're accusing of being vulgar. You've been vulgar since DAY ONE, Bob! Or did I just imagine you telling all those people to shove it up their ass at VPF???? Go ahead. Answer for your crimes! I'm waiting to hear your excuse.

, you are a religious hypocrite, you are an egomaniac of monumental proportions, all of which make you a disgusting person.
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Prove that I'm a religious hypocrite! Don't just make baseless statements because that's called slander/libel! You'll have a tough time considering I don't subscribe to organized religion and I've said that many times!

You know it's pretty hard to play the Orthodox Christian hypocrite card on me, Bob, when I've said 100x over I'm not an Orthodox Christian! Unlike most sheep, I choose to actually think for myself.

Christian means follower of Christ. It does not mean I'm a Baptist, Pentecostal, 7th Day Adventist or even a Latter Day Saint!

It also does not mean I'm a perfect person. Christ would have the patience to deal with someone like yourself. He would put up with all your unbelieving and rotten attacks on his values and choices in life and never tell you to go fuck yourself. Well, I'm not that patient, Bob! I've admitted dozens of times anger is one of my major vices and having to put up with people like yourself that exist only out of hatred of other people's opinions and beliefs definitely can push me over the edge. I work with common blue collar people every day that talk with what you hypocritically call 'vulgarities' (considering you talk that way yourself) and we just call small talk.

But suffice to say, I believe in treating others as they treat me. If you're going to disrespect me, Bob (and there can be ZERO doubt here that you are the one that jumped into this thread and started disrepsecting me when I was NOT talking about you at all), I'm not going to treat you with the kind of respect I would give someone like Highrise or Kurt, who actually DESERVE my respect. You see, unlike you, they do not attack me and call me a hypocrite or the 'bigger asshole', etc. That is YOUR DOING, Bob and YOU SHOULD TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR ACTIONS!

Stop blaming me for your outbursts! I am only REACTING to the way you are treating me and you are treating me like SHIT.

So AGAIN, I say that you Bob are a HYPOCRITE. You can call me that all you want, but it is you that CONSISTENTLY fit the definition of a hypocrite! You have YET to point to one behavior of mine that has been inconsistent with what I've said in the past or about what I've said I believe. Pulling cheap shots off the old Orthodox list is pathetic considering I've argued AGAINST Orthodoxy on VPF for a LONG LONG time! My favorite musical artist is Tori Amos! Does that sound like I'm an Orthodox Christian, Bob? I don't subscribe to any SINGLE version of Christianty because I don't believe ANY single one of them have all the answers! Does that make any sense to you?

I'm sure your next insulting, flaming angry retort about what a fucking asshole I am will be just as enlightening as your last one...(sigh). Frankly, you are not discussing anything here. You, like Shockman and Leo, are RANTING and FLAMING and doing NOTHING else. I, at least, explain what I'm talking about and provide proof to back up my claims. You do NOTHING but make false assertions and (to use your own term) 'vulgar' comments.

When PK got excited about a new flipper fix, you immediately shut him up by saying you would not allow him to mod your tables.
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I said I would not allow SHOCKMAN'S code in my tables and if PK was going to mod them using Shockman's code, I consider it unauthorized because as I said, I want nothing to do with any work by Shockman. I mean if you're going to talk about something, get your facts straight because twisting shit to make me sound like some meanie is just fucking pathetic, Bob.

Like everything else being discussed here, this is about Shockman's behavior and I want NOTHING to do with him and I do not sanction my tables to have anything to do with him, thus. There is nothing mean about it. Other than Shockman or issues related to Shockman such as this, I have never denied ANYONE a mod EVER. If people e-mailed me asking for images, they got them. So, you trying to paint me as some kind of an controlling monster is just fucking HILARIOUS because it's so UNTRUE it's pathetic. Ask Nicolas if I let him mod AFM and if I sent him all the images he requested! Did I not let you mod any number of my tables with whatever 'vulgar' images of women you wanted to use with them? When have I *EVER* forbade any mods in the past related to my work other than relating to Shockman here??? Name even ONE!

You try to bully your way of thinking onto everyone.
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LOL. Yeah, I'm such an unreasonable person, Bob. It's why despite it all, I'm STILL trying to get Shockman to see the fallacy of his arguments.

You said only a "few" tables were effected by your vbs changes and I told you I opened up 10 VPM tables and they
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Define few. There's HUNDREDS and HUNDREDS of VPM tables out there, Bob. 10 is not hundreds, but regardless, I was talking about PERCEPTION. Certainly, if hundreds of authors had come forward and complained I had broken the behavior of their tables, I would have perceived differently. But given the FACT that NOT ONE AUTHOR (other than Shockman) came forward after the change to make such a claim, I don't think it's hard to see why I would perceive that very few were affected by the change, especially since most of the tables I do have here have faster flipper speeds. LOTR was the first one that caught my attention. But again, my purpose in changing the files was not to break tables, but to get Shockman to stop ranting, but without rewarding him for cussing me and most of the staff at VPF out for the past year or more.

But again, it's strange you only NOW noticed that it affected ANY tables (I would not really use the word 'broke' as in they work just fine, save the occasional lost ball and that is REALLY the result of Randy's physics code, not a speed value when it comes right down to it. The question of whether using speed to cheat the problem is a valid one because as I've stated before, the original INTENT of the VBS CORE was to use a SLOW value, not a FAST one. But you don't want to discuss that! You IGNORE it completely because you'd rather rant about how I broke tables than address the larger issues and concerns at hand. Even Mame team members do things for a reason, if you happen to not like them! I guess that might make them scumbag assholes in your eyes too, but not everyone sees the world the way you do, Bob).

were all set close to the default flipper speed and NONE of them had the flipper speed coded into the script. This was much earlier than you finally admitted that you "didn't realize" that there were more that a "few" tables efected by it. This also made you a liar at that time.
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Sorry Bob, but I don't understand your logic in declearing me a liar there. You say that I said I thought very few tables had a problem with the new code (a perception again) and that you pointed out to me that some tables had a problem and that I LATER stated I that more than 'a few' tables might have a problem. That sounds like I became better informed over that period of time, not that I lied about it after the fact! Your accusations are very illogical.

In the last week your posts have been FULL of vulgarity at a time when neither Shocky nor I was posting foul language.
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I find your choice of words, amusing. You say vulgarity like I've been posting nude photos of women or something (Oh wait! Again, that's YOUR speciality Bob!). Let's see. The first post I recall offhand by you that sticks out was saying that I was being the bigger asshole than Shockman here. I could go back and look, but I don't recall telling you off before that point (Shockman is a different issue seeing as that argument/fight has been ongoing for a LONG time and he called me a thief and worse before I ever called him anything! What the heck does TIME frames have to do with it? He took a break from calling a fucking thief and just called me a lousy thief that week so he was not being 'vulgar'??? What kind of warped logic is that?) Let me guess, though. You don't consider calling me an 'asshole' vulgar? Given your taste in imagry, Bob, I'm not really sure what you consider 'vulgar' at this point! But I'm pretty damn sure we're NOT talking the same lingo here because you calling me an asshole DEFINITELY set me off into disrespect Bob mode.

From your own christian standpoint.... This makes you a hypocrite.
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No, from your OWN christian standpoint, that makes me a hypocrite. Because you are once again playing the tired old, "Chrsitians can't do this and can't do that" card, but *I CAN* because *I* am NOT a Christian. That gets old, Bob. You're telling me either that ALL Christians are pretty much hypocrites because they aren't perfect people (or worse yet, sheep that never stand up for themselves because they take that turn the other cheek business LITERALLY instead of figuratively like I tend to). It's a major crutch to your argument, Bob. At best, it means I'm not a perfect Christian. But my belief in Christ as the light and truth, does not equate to being my own perfect behavior. If I were perfect, I would not need to be here.

I don't even need to explain the egomaniac attribute.
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So don't. Clearly, you see me differently than I see myself. I could state I think you have a huge ego too for any number of reasons, but I doubt you see it that way. What you call arrogance, I call confidence. But then history says I was considered an arrogant asshole by much of England and jealousy abounded (because I was the Queen's favorite) and so I'm not exactly unfamiliar with this accusation. Yet, history also states Elizabeth was keen judge of character and would not have associated with someone of poor moral character. Judgment is in the eye of the beholder and I dare say you judge quite a lot, Bob.

My judgments of you are limited mostly to your behaviors on here. I do not pry into your personal life or question your faith or try to use any of your personal beliefs against you. I mostly accuse you of acting like a scoundrel/asshole. You, however, show that you'll grasp at ANYTHING to put me down, no matter how low you have to sink to do it.

Why don't you just tell everybody how great you are.... Again and again and again....
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Why don't you just use that same tired old fucking line....again and again and again....

The truth is I don't tell people how great I am. You simply accuse me of doing that and it's a lie. To the contrary, people tell me how great I am. I ignore it and have even discouraged it repeatedly in the past (i.e. saying I want actual feedback comments, not ass kissing).

This thread will reach 10,000 replies, as long as you post your BS about me.
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You mean your BS about me. What I've said about you is true observation. Most of what you've said about me is easily proven to be bullshit.

If you post BS about me at VPF, I'll give you an education there also.
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I encourage you to look at who started flaming whom in this thread. This thread is not about you. You jumped in, sticking your nose where it doesn't belong and decided to judge me and then castigate me with name calling. I'd say you are the one that needs an education.

There's nothing worse then a christian hypocrite.....
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Except possibly a non-Christian judging a Christian based on beliefs they don't even subscribe to themselves, yet try to hold the Christian to ONLY because they believe that will let them win the argument without actually even having to talk about the REAL subject matter at hand.

READ THAT AGAIN, BOB, because it says FAR FAR more about your complete and utter lack of character than it does about mine.

You cast the first stone 90% of the time.
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A completely false assertion with no proof what-so-ever to back it up. Big shock there, Bob. I remind you to look and see whom started insulting whom in this thread and then kick yourself in the ass when you see it was you.

You are an embarrassment to your country, your state, your faith, your race, your masculinity, your intelligence and even you family.
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Again, I'll only point out that the very quote I just quoted proves that you are actually talking about yourself because I don't use such fucking low-life tactics as to bring your personal life into a lousy internet argument over a speed setting in a pinball file!!! (!)

Your turn....
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What? You were doing such a good job proving my points for me, Bob.
 
You got on my case first when you started linking Shockman & Bob, Bob & Shockman just to push buttons.... Even Shocky pointed this out to you, but you have your own twisted reality about history. At least I'm in some pretty good company when I joined the AntiPacs.... For christ sake, there was even a forum/chatroom created just for poking fun at you by Gottlieb and the other AntiPacs. There was even another pinball simulator created just so people could get away from you and your BS. I repeat, you are the biggest joke to ever register at VPF. You must admit, that's some pretty heavy duty hatred displayed towards you by alot of people.
 
I never asked for credit. I never wanted credit. The issue is that PacDude deserves no credit for it. I came up with the fix, and the range of numbers including the max (safe) speed for the faster tables. I first suggested the number be put into the core. I discussed it with at least one VPM team member.
' - set conFlipRetSpeed to 0.137 to reduce ball thru flipper problem
' (on suggestion from PacDude)
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He speeded up the flippers, using the method and value I suggested, on suggestion from PacDude? How was that possible? What this shows is that WPC' saw that speeding up the flippers in the core would eliminate the problem and jumped right on it. He had only PacDude's word that it was he that suggested it. That is simply not true. To use WPC' did it as an excuse is mean, unjust, and untrue, and has nothing to do with the point and surly does not change the fact that it was me that suggested it. I beat the drum for it. and posted a couple of days later that "If they are going to do this, then they should do it sooner rather than later". I was all over it. I think it's untrue and disrespectful to say that discussion with Destruk was not enough, and if PacDude had to do more then he would say that it was his suggestion. PacDude was beating the drum for my suggestion to be put in, but do you think he would say it was my suggestion? History has answered that already.

PacDude posted that it was he that put it into the core.vbs file and I have quoted that a few times. He said he found that that number worked to eliminate the ball through the flipper problem and I have quoted that a few times as well.

slander/libel
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/ is used to use two terms as applicable, but slander and libel are two different things. Slander is not written, libel is, and libel is not spoken, slander is.

PacDude asks why he would use slower speeds for the downswing? That it is best to use the upswing speed, but I can also post a few quotes where he say that real tables don't return the flippers as fast as they swing them up. It's true, they don't. So why did he not use .1 for down? Because he had to come up with something different. .01 was in the range I gave. .137 was not, but close enough that it would work but be his own. He had an opportunity for unmatched realism being that he used a fast upswing set in the editor, and did not even know that it could be set in the script.

You can lecture on it. You can twist it and turn it upside down. You can lie about it and always get someone to believe you, but you can not change history, and you can not say that he isn't using the fix in both ways I came up with, and keeping others from using it as well. He can say that I asked for the code to be taken out and he can get some of you to believe it, but he can't back it up. He can say that to mention someone for suggesting something that someone else is suggesting is the fault of the person that fell for it, and not the person that butted in and did not disclose the real contributer, but he can not make it true.

ANYONE that PacDude did this to would think him a thief. Everyone that reads his posts about that would call him a liar.
 
thread.jpg
 
So Bob, you consider Gottlieb, Leo, etc. good company? I think that about says it all. Look at the people in the boat with you. And you think creating a forum just to flame someone behind their back makes them good people? That's some logic you have there. I don't create forums to flame people.

And ignore all the rest of my valid arguments, as usual.

.
.

He speeded up the flippers, using the method and value I suggested, on suggestion from PacDude? How was that possible?
Click to expand...

It's possible because the first part of your sentence is a LIE (your method was to put the code into the key-up/key-down section). If not, please post a link to prove me wrong because frankly I'd like to see that orignial thread again so we can see exactly what transpired in what order.

The 2nd part is true because I e-mailed wpcmame. You did not. That means I "made a suggestion to him" and you did not. That is why he said I suggested he change the value instead of you. Because you never bothered to e-mail him. And you never have. I didn't ask for any credit, but what he wrote was simply explaining why he made the change. You see it as a credit. I do not. In either case, it was REMOVED by yours truly in 3.24, which again should have made you happy, but clearly it has not.

But what I do see is that as time goes on you seem to be taking credit for more and more things and aspects beyond what originally happened. You did find the problem. Good job. But you haven't written all the code out there. And your attitude absolutely SUCKS.

And the mere fact I haven't taken any credit for any flipper fix code shows your whole animosity towards me is based on bullshit.

You can't seem to see the reason you are having problems with people is that you like to tell them off FIRST and then DEMAND changes. Maybe if you asked for a change first and saved the telling off part until the point where or IF they say NO, you'd have better luck.
 
And the mere fact I haven't taken any credit for any flipper fix code shows your whole animosity towards me is based on bullshit.
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Even though I've put the code into the VBS core, I typically include a separate sub for it in my tables (which allows me to disable a double flipper sound in some tables for one thing, which can be incredibly annoying sounding in VP tables for some reason). If you do that, you can rename it and use a separate one for the upper flippers if you prefer them to have a slower downswing. There is no rule that says you have to use VBS routines for everything anyway. The issue is definitely not as much of an isssue with upper type flippers regardless so you could easily substitute a different sub there. Of course, some older tables use only solenoid to drive more than one flipper which is where the secondary variable pass comes in normally. You'd probably have to rewrite the handler sub to separate their speeds there. It wouldn't very hard to do, though.
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I came up with 0.137 while working on TAF in the past precisely for aiming purposes (that's why it's such an odd number). I also found it worked well to eliminate the ball-through-flipper issue on the downswing. I'm not sure exactly where the "cutoff" region would be on the downswing, though.
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You know damned well that everything I wrote at that time has been deleted, though I was told that the name on my posts would be changed to guest. I can't post anything that anyone said in any thread I started at that time. You are damned lucky I can't too, because it gives you ammo to lie, cheat and steal, each of witch you have done in this case.

You can't change the fact that the ball through the flipper was fixed by me, not you. You need to accept that and get over it. You can't accept the fact that the core was changed because of that, not because you did that crap that I quoted again, and lied about it being your suggestion, and even that it was you that put it in the core..

The MOST you can say on your behalf is that you were credited for the fix being in the core because you suggested what I suggested. You wanted what I wanted, and you butted in and did an end run around me and lied to WPC' and said that YOU suggest it. Do you really think that he would have credited you if you told him that is was my suggestion, and I suggested the number, but I was talking to the wrong team member, and that the fix be put into the core? If you really really really wanted credit for it you should have said that I want credit for suggesting that you use what the contributer is talking to other team members about putting in the core. If you did not care for credit, you should have said Hey, this is Shockman's solution to the ball through the flipper problem. he wants it to be put into the core.vbs file so it would work for everyone as default. I think it's a good idea.

You see the difference there PacDude? There is none really except the credit issue, but they are both very different than what you said, something that would make him think it was your idea and your suggestion that it be put into the core. Neither of the ways I suggested however would have resulted in you getting credit in the core file for my idea, only the way you did it, leaving me, the contributor and the one that first made the suggestion totally out of the conversation. The best way of course would have been to either leave it to Destruk to see to it, or to bring up to wpc' which is the way I thought it was going, or to say Shockman, wpc is the only one that adds contributions to the core, you need to talk to him directly. But that would have taken a bigger man than you, unfortunately. Most people would be uncomfortable with having credit for this in the core, but not you, you would fight for it and make excuses why it should be, and get so upset if you could not have that in peace that you would take it away from everyone.

Do you really think any member is going to believe you when you still say that you gave me what I want? That you took the code out because THAT is what I wanted? You are a liar PacDude, a thief, and a jerk.
 
Pacdude said:
So Bob, you consider Gottlieb, Leo, etc. good company? I think that about says it all. Look at the people in the boat with you. And you think creating a forum just to flame someone behind their back makes them good people? That's some logic you have there. I don't create forums to flame people.

And ignore all the rest of my valid arguments, as usual.
Click to expand...

It's not a boat, it's a ship.... You've pissed off so many people, it's a wonder there's still a community left to support this hobby. Even Highrise said you are rude, but not as rude as Shocky. I suppose you think that's a compliment? That's a nice way of saying you are an asshole. LOL, even your supporters think you're a fuckin' dickhead.

I didn't ignore one single thing you said that had an ounce of validity to it, it was just a bunch of BS. You, on the other hand didn't bother answering my question whether or not you have fixed the vbs fles yet.
 
And ignore all the rest of my valid arguments, as usual.
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Valid arguments?

.
.

He speeded up the flippers, using the method and value I suggested, on suggestion from PacDude? How was that possible?

It's possible because the first part of your sentence is a LIE (your method was to put the code into the key-up/key-down section). If not, please post a link to prove me wrong because frankly I'd like to see that orignial thread again so we can see exactly what transpired in what order.
Click to expand...
My method was to speed the return speed of the flippers to beat the ball. My method was to do that anywhere needed to change the speed of the flippers beyond what we were doing before, setting it in the editor. I presented code in the first post of the first thread that could be used in the scripts and in that same thread suggested changes to the .vbs file.

The 2nd part is true because I e-mailed wpcmame. You did not. That means I "made a suggestion to him" and you did not. That is why he said I suggested he change the value instead of you. Because you never bothered to e-mail him. And you never have. I didn't ask for any credit, but what he wrote was simply explaining why he made the change. You see it as a credit. I do not. In either case, it was REMOVED by yours truly in 3.24, which again should have made you happy, but clearly it has not.
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It means "you relayed my suggestion to him" PacDude, without telling him it was my suggestion. This is everything I said it was and more. It is childish, uncool, unnecessary, and just simply not the way to treat a fellow member. I would have e-mailed him if I thought he was out of the loop and the only one capable of adding it. Destruk was there, a team member, and a contact, and we had already discussed it. Why am I telling you this? You know this as much as anyone, except wpc'. If you heard the lyrics of a song, say in a garage, and wrote it down and beat them to a producer and said it was your song, what would it take to ease your mind? Just that the producer believed that it was your song? is that all it would take for you to think you did the right thing, and that you have a valid argument to retain the royalties?

But what I do see is that as time goes on you seem to be taking credit for more and more things and aspects beyond what originally happened. You did find the problem. Good job. But you haven't written all the code out there. And your attitude absolutely SUCKS.
Click to expand...
I did come up with the first high resolution plunger that was shared outright as far as I know. I had it refined to using a trigger and much higher resolution and a working long enough plunger rod while you were saying that it was not needed because you had VP's set hit the skillshots simi automatically on your tables. Then after it's out, one shows up in the core that works just like it, but it called something else, though it's still a trigger and timers. I was so familiar with it that I had it implemented into a release before you did. You said there was no way to even fake invisible ramps and I came up with a way in one sitting. Swinging wire gate, rollover targets,and multistate lights came before you as well. I know of nothing you contributed yourself.
I take credit for none of that, though I have did all of that before I seen you even try it.

And the mere fact I haven't taken any credit for any flipper fix code shows your whole animosity towards me is based on bullshit.
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mere fact? It it was true that you did not take credit for it then things would be a lot different about it, wouldn't they?

You can't seem to see the reason you are having problems with people is that you like to tell them off FIRST and then DEMAND changes. Maybe if you asked for a change first and saved the telling off part until the point where or IF they say NO, you'd have better luck.
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I have not found that to be true, when dealing with you or yours.
 
Well, Bob, it's obvious you have joined the dark side and have nothing but anger and venom in you. Everything you write is just negative negative negative and insulting garbage and most of it easily proven false (I've done it again and again). You clearly deserve to be banned from VPF and here. Your lies about me in this thread alone merit it.

Shockman, everyone has thought you were scum for a long time now and your latest post simply proves you have no understanding or logic in you. You refuse to post any evidence to back up your claims what-so-ever. You claim it's been deleted. Bullshit. You know you're full of it.

To both of you, have a nice day.
 
You, on the other hand didn't bother answering my question whether or not you have fixed the vbs fles yet.
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Why should I? You've already said that Im a fucking dickhead (again, who is being vulgar here???). I should live up to my reputation, eh.
 
It's OK PacDude, I believe you. My posts from that time are still there, not deleted as I said. Those things I posted that were quotes of yours were made up, you never said that. I never came up with the fix, in fact I can't remember who did. I did want you to delete the fix, not the credit you deserved. Free means no cost, and credit means something other than credit. It was your suggestion as you say and it was you that put the code in the script. Everything you said was true, and nothing I said was. You have backed up everything you have said, and everyone loves you.
 
Pacdude said:
Well, Bob, it's obvious you have joined the dark side and have nothing but anger and venom in you. Everything you write is just negative negative negative and insulting garbage and most of it easily proven false (I've done it again and again). You clearly deserve to be banned from VPF and here. Your lies about me in this thread alone merit it.
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LOL, there’s not a shred of truth in that paragraph….



Pacdude, the self-proclaimed greatest VPM table recreator of all time has released 31 VPM tables (many of them are the most popular real tables ever made, most of them made with hi res, stripped down playfields for optimal results and sometimes has video sent to him from real table owners.

Then there’s me, a lowly original table creator that PD described as,….

Pacdude said:
Like I said, Bob, you're a fucking piece of shit and can go fuck yourself. I couldn't give a shit if you live or die at this point. You've proven yourself to be just like Cowboy and other former cocksuckers at VPF. You can call me names until the cows come home. It doesn't matter to me at all. You just keep proving what a dickhead you are. You cannot make a civil argument and simply result to calling me names. So I'll continue to treat you the same way in return. Fair is fair and like Shockman, you STARTED IT so that makes YOU the bigger asshole. I don't start shit with people, but I don't sit by take shit from anyone, let alone piss-poor original table makers with their head up their ass. ]
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I have released 1 unpopular VPM table, made with a crooked snapshot that PD wouldn’t touch with a 10 foot pole. I created the layout from the snapshot, because I’m so inexperienced, that I didn’t even know the layout blueprint is pictured in the manual. I used Phoenix’ (according to PD, knows nothing about light bulbs) bulb colors. I had Shocky install his hi res plunger and his flipper settings on the table. Both of these guys are also part of the AntiPac Community, one of the largest and fastest growing communities in VPLand.

Now comes the fun part…. I can hardly type because I’m ROFLMAO. Thank you Jesus! You can’t make this shit up, it’s just too damn funny. Look at the Ratings page at AJ’s,

http://www.vpforums.com/modules.php?s=&name=Downloads&d_op=TopRated

I just had to take a screensot, pictured below…. My lousy two-bit table sits above ALL of PD’s masterpieces, even the one‘s with his infamous blooming star fizzling light system or whatever and the hell it is…. LOL, I don’t care if I die tomorrow (one of PD’s birthday wishes) or if I receive 20 ratings of “1†and my table becomes the worst rated of all time, today I can enjoy laughing my ass off at PD, the King of BS, LOL in your face, you frackin’ RePacTard. I actually don't think I can top this.... I think I'll go back to being my mild-mannered self. BWA-Ha-Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha....


Top25.jpg
 
I should apologize.... I enjoyed myself WAY too much with that last post. :D

Turn out the lights
The party's over
They say that
All good things must end
 
Once again, Bob, you prove what a fucking asshole loser you are with your amazing 6 vote tally out of over 6 BILLION people worldwide to prove what a self-proclaimed awesome author you are! Keep it up! Your amazing logic and insight never ceases to overwhelm me. I'm glad you're having a good time amusing yourself, though. Too bad everyone else (save Leo and Shockman, of course) is laughing at you, not with you.

Hell, you can't even get the number of tables I've released right, you moron. It's 33, not 31. Mitchell looks like a genius next to you. Even he can add.
 
Sorry dude, you'll have to rant without me.... I'm back to being a nice guy...

Have a nice day :)

:hysterical
 
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