A Statement from Noah Fentz

[Noah Fentz]

I just have this to say, and it is in no way and attempt to start another flame war. In fact, I am hoping to resolve this, once and for all...

As posted at VPForums.org

I have been putting this off and putting this off, but it's time to make this statement, since this has been an ongoing issue about this site and how it all came to be. This is what happened...

A few, long standing, well-respected and contributing members have been accusing me of wrongful deeds, and in their eyes, they're probably right. I can honestly say from my perspective, they're not. They just don't know all of the events of that time, and, unfortunately, can't possibly be certain of my motivation. I'm going to try to explain.

You see, everything I do, I do to an extreme, and I do it as well as it can be done. When I am involved in something, and I feel it could be improved, I get involved and help to improve it. The VP community is no different...with one exception. I couldn't help improve it, because no one could. No one could change anything at VP's #1 site, at the time, AJ's.

Even when AJ's was going well, it wasn't complete in its features. It didn't support Originals or VP-only tables. Many of the early, GREAT authors were turned away because of conflicts, and they removed their works. The upload size limit didn't grow with the increased demand for better looking tables and evolving techniques, so many tables couldn't be made available. It definitely had its shortcomings, and the community was suffering. It even had a shady origin of its own, I might add, yet everyone went there.

After reading countless posts from members who were unhappy with AJ's site and talking about the slow death of the community, I decided to act. I took the steps to create what I envisioned to be the best Virtual Pinball Forum possible. I wanted the members to be able to upload their own files and make large files possible, an easily navigable download section, tutorials, design resources for new and experienced authors to use, tournaments, Future Pinball support and discussion,and an interactive and fun community.

I had dreamed of authors returning that haven't been in the scene in years and new authors surface. I envisioned the VP community growing again.

I had one thing left to do, and that was to come up with a name. As I was thinking about it, I suddenly realized (or thought) the best way to honor the community would be to keep its identity, VPForums. I figured, since AJ didn't seem to care about the site or its members, I would create a new and VERY improved version of it, and he wouldn't care. At the same time, the members would finally have what they wanted. So, I did. I reserved both .org and .net, so I could do something with both, and worked non-stop for a week. This isn't something I did clandestinely, either. I announced it openly on PN and in PM's to several members of AJ's[sup]ref[/sup]. I wanted to gather support from the few talented and active authors remaining and generate excitement, to ensure its success.

At first, it was greeted with nothing but support and good ideas. Then, suddenly, it took an unexpected turn. The name, which many had agreed with the reasons for which I selected it (some even said it was the best name possible^ref), became an issue. Targeted by accusations and insults, I pressed on. I'd work for hours on the site, only to take a break and read what a horrible, sneaky, or immoral person I had become in some of their eyes.

In the first week of developing the site, the unthinkable happened. AJ's went down^ref, and after time, seemingly for good. During this time, the debate was getting heated that I should change the name, although the site was already open. I undoubtedly considered it and came up with a few options (VPForge.com was my personal favorite. I imagined a smith pounding his hammer onto a pinball for a logo.). At this time, I'm unemployed and had to wait for my next check to pick up the new domain, so I had to wait. I had every intention to change it.

Then, a shocking development... A NEW VP, VP 9! I was floored when David Foley, from Nanotech, contacted me, and I wanted to get it out as soon as possible. Within days, we had a new VP! I thought, what a great way to electrify and rejuvenate the community!

At this point, I started thinking that AJ's wasn't coming back and what effect that would have. That, along with 500+ downloads of the new VP 9, with our domain as its support site, got me back to thinking about the name. I came to the conclusion that if AJ's never returned, the best thing for me to do for the VP community would be to not change it. How would anyone find us and the new VP? So, I decided, at that moment, it should remain VPForum.org.

I have been accused of being a thief, unscrupulous, underhanded, and dishonorable. I can understand how some may feel that way, but if they just put their prejudices aside, they would see that it was the best thing for the community. It kept us all together and it is thriving! Couple that with the fact I have nothing to gain, except friends and the satisfaction I am helping the VP community grow once again!

In closing, I am saddened by the accusations that have been thrown my way. I poured my heart and soul into this site, and I can't see the reasoning behind some valued members not visiting and getting involved. The name is perfect, considering the current state of AJ's. Without it, many members of the community, both new and long standing, would never have found our site, and for that reason, I am glad I didn't change it.

I also want to assure you that this site will never go down permanently or without notice. I back it up often, and it is one of my priorities every day. Regardless of what happens in my personal life, you can be certain I'll be here to maintain it. I even have instructions of what to do in the event of my death.

I want to invite anyone and EVERYONE, both new and long time members of the community to get active and involved here. No one is banned, and no one will be looked down upon. Everyone has a clean slate, and I encourage everyone to put their feelings aside and give everyone a chance, regardless of the past!!

Thank you,

Paul


PS: I want to take this opportunity to thank those that had the courage and enough respect for me to support us in this situation. I never intended to divide the community. Quite the opposite, in fact. I wanted a place where EVERYONE would want to come and hang out. A place for VP to be remembered, discovered, and cultivated for future generations of pinball enthusiasts.

NB: You are welcome to reply and express your opinion, however you interpret this debacle, keep it civil.

 

[Meecro Hyperion]

Good for you, Noah. Your reasons for starting the new site are noble and worthy.

You _are_ doing a service to the virtual pinball community, and you are to be commended for that. The name is the only issue, and you know why.

VPForge is a great name - go with it!!!! Everyone will still find you, you will still be the premier VP support site on the net. The site will lose _nothing_ from a domain name change, but will gain the patronage of (a few) more users. A link to the new domain(s) will redirect users, and several members here have offered to help fund a name change....

After reading the exhaustingly long thread here, I can't conscionably visit vpforums.org until that happens or A.J. endorses your site, even though I've only recently begun my VPinMAME adventure, and only I lose out.

Sorry. That's just the way I feel. But good luck with it, whatever happens.

 

[sleepy]

You do realize that both the appearance of Nanotech front page advertising and the release of VP9 at "the Org" is also a coincidence? Really, really is.

Why not use VisualPinball.com since Randy has contractually signed off to Nanotech, or didn't Mr. Foley buy the rights to the name? Or would that appear to be too "commercial-sounding"?

 

[faralos]

Personally I like vpforums.org, as it pays homage to the now defunct site of vpforums.com but still retains its own identity. Why change it to something else again? You know someone will always complain about this or that name (ya' can't please everyone all the time). This way, people who are still looking for AJ's site will instead get into vpf.org and (hopefully) will find themselves a new home and stay. Of course, I wasn't a member of vpf.com for too long, so I can kind of relate to its long-time members who may feel hurt that you use its name so flippantly. This is of course my own opinion, people, so don't yell at me for voicing my own!
I think vpf.org is a wonderful site with many new features that AJ's site (great though it was) didn't have. Had he been more active with it, yes it too may have become a great site holding a candle to nothing else, but alas, he neglected it and it showed, ultimately, in its demise.
So KUDOS to you for having the tenacity and dedication to all of us pinheads with the developement of this (vpforums.org) wonderful site. Feel free to call it anything YOU want and in time (hopefully) we will all adjust to it's new (?) name whatever it may be. My hats off to you, kind sir... :)

 

[Phoenixx]

EDIT: Never mind. Its probably pointless anyway.

Might say my piece another time,...

 

[JonPurpleHaze]

This Noah dude just doesn't seem to understand things properly, I also consider vpforums.org to be pretty neato but honestly can't get myself to support a cybersquatter.

When I see the domain name of vpforums.org, my brain automatically turns that into vpf..org..ery. So i think the domain name of "VPForge.com" might be perfect.

As mentioned earlier, Noah seems to indicate that he's all about improving the community but I really think it's all about him and his site. It was extremely disappointing when I discovered that the terrible domain name was registered by a staffer at the real VPForums, this was an intentional backstabbing and wrong no matter what his fake reasonings are.

The name is perfect, considering the current state of AJ's. Without it, many members of the community, both new and long standing, would never have found our site, and for that reason, I am glad I didn't change it.

There are search engines for finding sites and as pointed out to you earlier (#455 ), you might be the reason the real VPForums is gone, you are doing harm to the "community" daily. If someone started a site called piballnirvana.org (especially a staffer) I'd be extremely annoyed and probably would not bother to resurrect it or continue due to the scum sucking actions of a "community" member.

 

[Noah Fentz]

I come to finally resolve this issue, and you call my hard work and effort a forgery?! And I'm a Cybersquatter now?

Pfft...

I scoff at the notion that you can possibly find any criteria on which to compare the two sites. It's PAINFULLY obvious that we actually care about ALL of our members, whether they be new to the scene or long time veterans, and the entire Virtual Pinball community. We encourage activity and support requests. We don't allow our members to crap on the new ones and laugh about it.

It is the comments like these that do harm to the community.

I can tell you I've gone to great lengths to make it a great place to discuss pinball and not politics or religion, and we certainly wouldn't allow the flaming and total disrespect shown here at VPForums.org!

Even after all the unmoderated insults I endured in the beginning of all this, I voluntarily linked your site in our Recommended Sites section, without asking for anything from you. I really was hoping for your support more than anyone's, Jon.

So, I would like to resolve this, but I am beginning to believe it is simply futile. You insist on defending a site that was useless to the entire community in its most recent state, and now, is totally non-existent as a result of neglect and no concern for its members' interests?!!

Why?!! How can you disrespect all of my effort and defend a host that abandoned the community, without even a word to anyone...ANYONE?!

I am truly appalled by your response, and do not feel welcome here anymore. At least I log off from here knowing full well that what I did, I did for the community, not for the absolutely outlandish reasons some of your members have accused me of.

You really believe that it's all about me and my site?!? Maybe you should take a little time to consider the amount of effort we put into it?

And what do I really have to gain?!

I can tell you what I have gained from it...

Simply put, I've gained the satisfaction of helping to preserve pinball and the Virtual Pinball scene, and the much appreciated, positive feedback I receive from my members on a daily basis.

THAT'S what I have to gain...nothing more, nothing less, and I look forward to it every day.

:)

 

[bob]

The name, which many had agreed with the reasons for which I selected it (some even said it was the best name possible^ref), became an issue

Your reference leads to a quote by me....

As for the VPForums name and the earlier discussion of stealing it. I think it may be the best choice of names as it is a VP forum and I don't think they stole anything, but maybe shiva could tell us how AJ got the forum to begin with.

Let me explain my quote again to you publicly as I once did privately.... I'm an asshole and that quote was only created to rehash and maybe goad shiva into telling us about AJ and his cronies stealing shiva's data base of members right out from under him. I wasn't on any quest to bring honor to anyone or the VPF domain name.

My offer to "PAY" for a new domain name still stands.... It was/is a piss poor name choice for "your" forums, but it is the best choice of names for a VPForums.

I still think if people Google for Visual Pinball, they will find more than they could ever wish for, so any forum name would work.

 

[m4paws]

When I see the domain name of vpforums.org, my brain automatically turns that into vpf..org..ery. So i think the domain name of "VPForge.com" might be perfect.

[...]

It was extremely disappointing when I discovered that the terrible domain name was registered by a staffer at the real VPForums, this was an intentional backstabbing and wrong no matter what his fake reasonings are.

Summed up neatly, those are my two objections, thank you Jon. Unlike most, the name bothers me less than the fact that the creation is born of VPF staffers. Don't get me wrong, the name bothers me a lot. But to me, you have no place running someone else's forum when you are actively planning to replace it. It's just unethical. Every VPF staffer involved in the new site should have resigned from VPF (or never taken the position in the first place) due to conflict of interest. The name thing is just icing on the cake.

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

bob, i'm usually the one who can make a pretty speech and you're usually the one who says the smartest thing of everyone.

so where do we stand on paul's place? this is what i just said:
http://vpforums.org/index.php?showtopic=1704&view=findpost&p=7579

my head is a fog these days (as usual).

so can we find something to agree on?

 

[Phoenixx]

...you have no place running someone else's forum when you are actively planning to replace it. It's just unethical.

Actually, unless you are entitled to do so you have no place running someone elses forum PERIOD. (After all thats why its called someone elses forum, as in 'it is not mine to take'.)

And that is the bottomline, isnt it. But apparently he takes us for complete idiots. Or what does he believe to gain by swinging on by telling us how he wants to 'resolve the issue' and then giving us the exact same justifications and rationalisations again as though he believed that this time it would suddenly make a difference? Do we really look that stupid that he would believe we all go "Well, you know if you put it that way lets all be buddies and head right over to your place with the stolen name?" What did he expect? He wants to settle the issue? CHANGE THE DAMN NAME! Thats ALL there is to do!


It is quite obvious that he just cant get it through his head that you cant talk a wrong thing right, no matter how many positive things you might have going for it as well. And that is precisely why any attempt at a reasonable discussion with this guy (in order to find an acceptable solution each side can live with) is 100% doomed to fail, because one who does not even recognize his wrongdoings as being wrong will not even understand what the hell you are talking about. Instead the others are being called the ones who cannot be discussed with, well, what more is there to say. Its 100% pointless to even try in such a case, thats also why i removed my last post. Why waste my time with something i already know the outcome of anyway, especially when i dont really care anymore anyway. He could change the name three times a day from now on and i wouldnt go there,...this thing is way beyond redemption,...

 

[panootz]

I have to say i started vpforums.com in 2006, and i only saw AJ 10 times logged on to his own website. Too me thats pretty sad if you want a webste you should be talking to your company as i put it. He also never maintained that site and probably cared less about anybody who logged on or his Staff, which he never comunicated with. The man from post said that. Well i like what Paul has done with his pinball site, And just like Jon he logs in to his website and talks to us like where family. I say thak you Jon and Paul for being their for us the people. About Pauls name for his website i say keep it, a lot of people feel at home with vpforums name since the other ones gone. Like i said Aj didn't care about us so why should we care about him. Thats just my two cents if you don't like it then don't come to Pauls website, it's as easy as that. Dave P.

 

[Phoenixx]

... honestly can't get myself to support a cybersquatter.

Typosquatter is probably more appropriate in this case.

Generally, the victim site of typosquatting will likely be a frequently visited website. The typosquatter's URL will usually be one of four kinds, all similar to the victim site address:
(In the following, the intended website is "example.com")

• A common misspelling, or foreign language spelling, of the intended site: exemple.com
• A misspelling based on typing errors: xample.com or examlpe.com
• A differently phrased domain name: examples.com
• A different top-level domain: example.org

Once in the typosquatter's site, the user may also be tricked into thinking that they are in fact in the real site; through the use of copied or similar logos, website layouts or content. Sometimes competitors of the victim site will do this<sup class="noprint Template-Fact">[citation needed]</sup>.

There are even laws that deal with this sort of thing, which means AJ has a legal base to sue the hell out of the owner(s) of the fake VPF. If i were them i would already start looking for a high payed job, because if they dont and AJ is only half as relentless in suing them as they were in keeping the stolen name they might soon have to get in line for food stamps,...

Lawyers - Are - Expensive!

 

[Phoenixx]

P.S.: The formatting abilities of this place are fabulous!

The above quoted text was merely copied and pasted, yet the links are all intact and there is even a Wiki Icon in front of the first link.

Great job Jon, really, i think i have never seen a forum with more and better features than PinballNirvana!

 

[bob]

bob, i'm usually the one who can make a pretty speech and you're usually the one who says the smartest thing of everyone.

so where do we stand on paul's place? this is what i just said:
http://vpforums.org/index.php?showtopic=1704&view=findpost&p=7579

my head is a fog these days (as usual).

so can we find something to agree on?

Nic, I agree with your post 100%

I am not protesting the new VPF site. I actually like it and I do/will post there. I disagree with the site name and Noah knows that I disagree with it. I didn't bring the issue up again, as Noah has already stated that he will NOT change the name, Period. I'm not really sure why Noah brought it up again, but it was a mistake to do so, IMO.

Not only do you have people who refuse to go to the new VPF, but you will have people like me, who will go there, but still don't agree with the site name. I'm sure there are even a few who would not post their feelings publicly about it, but also think it was a bad idea. I mean, seriously, who would have registered the exact same Forum Name, while the other forum was still up and operating and not expect to create waves? I'm being nice, when I only say it was a bad idea.

On the other hand, there are lots of new members who think the new site is the cats meow, so more power to him.

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

thanks, bob.
i think i got it. :)

and yea- those little "W's" for wikipedia are awesome!

 

[studmuff]

Like i said Aj didn't care about us so why should we care about him. Thats just my two cents if you don't like it then don't come to Pauls website, it's as easy as that. Dave P.

I'm not sure if AJ cared or didn't but it seems like everyone is speaking for him. Has he even chimed in. The fact is the site is dead! There is a new site which is well maintained. I understand people are upset b/c the name was kept but the only one who should be mad is AJ.
I'm glad VP is still alive and I'm glad it is starting to move forward with VP9.

 

[Meecro Hyperion]

I come to finally resolve this issue, and you call my hard work and effort a forgery?! And I'm a Cybersquatter now?

Pfft...

_Very_ conciliatory! I don't know how old you are, Noah, but in this discussion you're behaving like an 8 year old.

You can't resolve an issue with others who not of your opinion by re-stating your opinion over and over again, as Phoenixx has explained.

It is done by showing you have listened to and understood the opinions of others. This is the bedrock of negotiation. That and the magic word compromise.

The only new information you have brought to the table are some fresh justifications as to why you used the name of another website (e.g. honouring the community). Come ON!

Your other justifications are just disingenuous. Would never have found the site? Balderdash. You're a website administrator. You know that if I want to find vpforums.com, I don't plug vpforums into a search engine and follow the links - I type vpforums.com into the address field!
I did that and came up empty, so I typed 'VPinMAME' into the search engine and up came pinball nirvana, IRPinball, Pagan Pinball, Pinball Originals and vpforums.org among others.

Another trait of the terminally young is the inability to ever admit to a mistake, much less apologise for one.

It is entirely beside the point that vpforums.com was neglected by it's owner. If I don't drive my car for a month, that doesn't mean I'm ok with someone else using it without my permission. Now if you had talked with AJ and said

'Mate, vpforums.com is showing it's age - it needs work and you obviously don't have time for it. I'm offering to give it the attention it deserves - do you mind?'

that would be an entirely different matter.

But you didn't and it isn't. I can't see why you would _want_ the name of such a 'crap' site anyway. Wouldn't people avoid it since it's so crap?

 

[Phoenixx]

It is entirely beside the point that vpforums.com was neglected by it's owner. If I don't drive my car for a month, that doesn't mean I'm ok with someone else using it without my permission.

Once he grasps this, he will have made a giant leap forward.

Now if you had talked with AJ and said

'Mate, vpforums.com is showing it's age - it needs work and you obviously don't have time for it. I'm offering to give it the attention it deserves - do you mind?'

that would be an entirely different matter.

But you didn't and it isn't.

To be fair; AJ was difficult to get a hold of, so trying this would probably have been pointless. And as far as i know there even have been attempts to get AJ to pass on the forums, but he refused, because he always considered it to be his baby and wanted to keep providing it himself.

But then what does it matter, the point is still that you dont steal somebodies forum just because you believe that you could do it much better. This is the bottomline and the one fact that will always remain, because if we all acted like that everytime we disagree with something we would soon descend into utter chaos and anarchy.

I can't see why you would _want_ the name of such a 'crap' site anyway. Wouldn't people avoid it since it's so crap?

Good point.



EDIT:

I think in the end it always boils down to this:

The problem is not that he did it and not even really why he did it. That may all be as it may.

The problem is how he did it and what motives he had to do it that way,...

 

[Anthias]

Thank you Noah for trying to seek resolution, and for posting this here as well as at the org in order to maybe facilitate that. Also, thankyou for your kind message to me bringing such to my attention. However, in spite of you having considered changing until vp9, it is not enough. Foley and nanotech are big boys - they'll cope. You owed them NOTHING, so that reason doesn't wash I am afraid.

- Ok - I will say this next thing once as it has been said before, and I have nothing personal in saying it.

Your perspective as stated in the second line of your post is irrelivent to this discussion. If you can not understand that, I will not harp on it other than to clarify this discussion has been about actions and results.

If I had done what you have done, I would be admitting I perhaps made a mistake. That would not change my intentions, or my original perspective. You made a mistake.

I am willing to believe you believe what you did was for the benefit and betterment of the community. I have no grudge against you for that intention, and indeed am thankfull you had it. But the RESULT of your ACTION is what is important. You say to honour the community you chose that name - was it really after thinking about it carefully?

Can you not understand that after carefull consideration, and out of RESPECT for ThAT SAME community, its history, its past benefactors, contributors, and AJ I can not in good conscience frequent your site while it continues to bear that name? there is NO personal grudge in that. There is NO accusation in that. There is simply the truth of how I feel. This community gave me much in the last 8 years. I can not return that with disrespect. Ok so that is my perspective, and maybe it is irellivant too, but that wont change my feelings, or my decision.

I will acknowledge that it is indeed a nice site - you have clearly worked hard on it, and have tried to pressent this community with the best you can do. But that is besdide the point. In this issue, that too is irellivent. I will not fail my principles for a shiny coat of paint - what kind of man would I be then?

As to AJ, who regardless of recent times, continued to provide the site - so WHAT if he was "neglecting it" he was PAYING for it, and if he wasn't interested anymore, he STILL PROVIDED IT - he could have shut it years ago.

I appreciated your olive branch pm - it speaks volumes for your character, and I could have responded personally via pm or email, but I respect this community enough to keep this response public as it remains not personal. Should you change the name, you would find PO linking to you. (Of course I can't speak for RH - and he is as much admin on PO as I - I honestly don't know his opinion on any of this as I have not felt this discussion should be held there). I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt on the whole vpfstaff betrayel thing angle, you were new to the community. However, you were new to the commuity. Perhaps longer and more careful consideration was in order hmmm?

Clearly you work hard to bring this community what you feel it deserves. I will do the same, and unfortunately, that is not compatible with the site name vpforums.org, unless AJ himself comes forward and gives you his blessing. The name was NEVER essential to your site, or its success, or to its ability to be found. Where in VPForums is the word pinball? So please, one last time, please - change the name.

 

[sleepy]

EDIT: Never mind.

 

[mrschultz]

Sounds like self rationalization to me.

Say you made a mistake.

Say you were about to change the name to make things right.

Then list a bunch of reasons why the name will not be changed...

It would be so easy to rectify the mistake, get the new name and use it for the new forum. Then put up a single page at vpforums.org saying that it is not vpforums.com and link to the new site, if vpforums.com ever comes back you have an easy way to link to it and let people know the new forum is different. Anyone that has worked on web sites would know how easy this would be to do.

But I'm sure there would be a load of excuses for not doing it.

Later,
Marty

 

[faralos]

we all know vpforums.com won't come back, as AJ is a ghost (in the machine) now. It's been months and nothing. Who really cares what Noah names his site? If you don't like it don't go there. If something comes on the telly and you don't want to watch it then DON'T! no one is forcing anyone to go to his site, yet all I read is about everyone bitching of his name for it. Ok so maybe he DID make a boo-boo, but get over it! we are (for the most part) all adults we can cope with radical changes, at least he is active on his site, unlike AJ in those later months before his (AJ's) site went belly-up. I don't and can't speak for Aj in the early years on his site, I only joined it in Sept of last year, So I don't know if he ever was an active participant or not, but at least Noah is, and for that I give him credit for keeping pinball alive with a very well thought out site (again this is my personal opinion) you are entitled to yours too...

 

[Phoenixx]

Faralos, rather than writing hip here and hop at another place you might either try to make up your mind OR consider staying out of the topic altogether. Personally i would recommend the latter, because for one thing you are clearly unable to discuss the principle in a detached objective way, and for another because you are only a member for a couple of months, which means you cant possibly have the same appreciation for the real VPF like a considerate long time member has,...


---------------------------------------


mrschultz; you might as well save your breath. I have already brought this very option to his attention right at the beginning, (since it seemed that this is simply what logic dictates in a screwed-up-hence-compromise-requiring situation like this), yet although it was an absolutely sensemaking and 100% reasonable way for all involved to get out of the whole ordeal with a little bit of dignity it was totally in vein because this guy quite simply is not the least bit interested in finding a compromise the entire community can live with. In fact he could probably not care any less since all that matters to him (evidently) is having his way, no matter the damage that he might (and does) cause in the process. Its not rocket science, really, its a simple matter of 1+1=2.

Just look at his latest try to 'resolve the issue'. Another gleeful round of justifications just to sulk off in 'outrage' and disappoinment at literally the very first sign of disagreement. Exactly the same kind of 'style' he showed right from the start. I dont know about you, but in my opinion this is definitely not the behaviour of someone who has the best interests of a group in mind, this is de-facto the behaviour of someone who doesnt give a damn for anything but having their way come hell or high water. Personally i have no doubt anymore that this is quite simply a guy who saw an admin panel and wanted more. A guy who has gotten so overwhelmed by the prospect of having 'power' that alone the thought of it corrupted them beyond salvation. The fact that he became a staffer at the real VPF short time before, the fact that he registered two vpforums domains and even looked into registering AJs .com domain when you only need one at most, the fact that he doesnt seem to mind at all the damage that he is de-facto doing and might be doing with regards to AJ and the groups entire history, the fact that he is totally unwilling to rectify the situation even though he knows that this is definitely causing damage to the group, these are not the actions of somebody who has the wellbeing of a community in mind, these are dead-obviously the actions of somebody who is looking to feed their ego, perfectly comfortable with doing so on the expense of all and any losses that the group factually is and possibly might be suffering in the process. 1+1=2.

The things he said in that latest post of his just confirm this once more. (I might comment them another time because some of that stuff is just too rich to leave it uncommented.) And it develops exactly in the direction i predicted too; as you can see he is already whining how he is putting so much effort into it, thereby implying how everyone would already 'owe' him. Well, what about AJs efforts? You know, the very efforts he is so happily profiting from now? The very efforts EVERYONE has profited from for the past 8 years? I suppose offering a forum for 8 years, thereby keeping the whole thing going for so long in the 1st place, doesnt really count? Or perhaps it only counts if the owner fulfills everyones expectations? Otherwise its alright to give them a swift kick in the ass, declare them obsolete, and take everything away from them? God what a shitty attitude some people have,...

In Germany we have an old saying "Der Mohr hat seine Schuldigkeit getan und kann gehen". Translated this means "The Moor has done his duty and can go", which means in other words; "The Nigger has exceeded his usefulness and may go rot in hell now". I rarely experienced a situation where this seemed so fitting and appropriate, although in this case its even more like "The Nigger did an incredibly sloppy job, after we whipped him and spit on him and took his house wife and children he may thank us all for being so easy on him and then slink off into the jungle where he belongs".

This is so ashaming,...if it werent for PinballNirvana and some other places id be long gone by now,...

 

[mrschultz]

mrschultz; you might as well save your breath. I have already brought this very option to his attention right at the beginning, (since it seemed that this is simply what logic dictates in a screwed-up-hence-compromise-requiring situation like this), yet although it was an absolutely sensemaking and 100% reasonable way for all involved to get out of the whole ordeal with a little bit of dignity it was totally in vein because this guy quite simply is not the least bit interested in finding a compromise the entire community can live with. In fact he could probably not care any less since all that matters to him (evidently) is having his way, no matter the damage that he might (and does) cause in the process. Its not rocket science, really, its a simple matter of 1+1=2.
.............
This is so ashaming,...if it werent for PinballNirvana and some other places id be long gone by now,...

OK, I don't remember seeing posts bringing up the redirect page.

Even if he couldn't afford the few dollars it would take to get another domain, he could simply put up a gateway page that says "this site is not vpforums.com" and automatically redirect to the .org in 10 seconds. I've actually been to sites that do this, make a typo on some sites where the typo is a real business and some will tell you the address of the site you wanted.

Like I said, everything he posted here is just to convince himself he is justified in keeping things as they are, if you really think you made a mistake you say, "sorry I'll fix it", not a bunch of paragraphs explaining the reason and then do nothing.

I'm liking Pinball Nirvana more and more, it was so slow in the past I never spent much time here.

Later,
Marty