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Air_Hockey_Fp/Bam "Ideas and concept"

wild

No Bam no Play
Chat Moderator
Ok, is it possible to create such a game?

This is a question that only time can decide, but I believe that with Bam, it is possible, of course it takes a long time, a long coding, especially mathematics, but also help.

This for now is only a prototype, an embryonic state, but it can render the idea,for now, I show the movements to the right and to the left of the Paddle, which obviously must be completed and defined.

There is a lot to discuss, and having new ideas about this type of game, lately Bam, it is constantly evolving, now you can control the ball, in the future I think there will be other functions that will allow other things and ideas, who knows!

About this game there are ideas, but also questions,and consequently problems, among which;

1) Is it possible to move the Paddel, in any direction?
2) it is possible to hit the puck, with the Paddle, and not have the feeling that the puck is going somewhere else?
3) we can replace the ball with the little puck?
4) how the ball or puck that bounces off the side walls will behave?
5) it is possible to play with two players?

These are some hypothetical assumptions for this game ... but let's see if it's possible to solve and make them happen

 

Gimli

Pinball Hall of Famer
Ok, is it possible to create such a game?
absolutely
This is a question that only time can decide, but I believe that with Bam, it is possible, of course it takes a long time, a long coding, especially mathematics, but also help.
no we have the math now it is quite easy
This for now is only a prototype, an embryonic state, but it can render the idea,for now, I show the movements to the right and to the left of the Paddle, which obviously must be completed and defined.

There is a lot to discuss, and having new ideas about this type of game, lately Bam, it is constantly evolving, now you can control the ball, in the future I think there will be other functions that will allow other things and ideas, who knows!

About this game there are ideas, but also questions,and consequently problems, among which;

1) Is it possible to move the Paddel, in any direction?
done
2) it is possible to hit the puck, with the Paddle, and not have the feeling that the puck is going somewhere else?
done
3) we can replace the ball with the little puck?
done
4) how the ball or puck that bounces off the side walls will behave?
needs a lot of tweaking
5) it is possible to play with two players?
yes but would only be enjoyable in Cabinet mode with a player at each end of table
These are some hypothetical assumptions for this game ... but let's see if it's possible to solve and make them happen
its definitely doable
and the rules are very easy
 

wild

No Bam no Play
Chat Moderator
Waooooo!!!:biggrin:

Thanks Gimli (Bob) .... so some of the issues seem to be solved, amazing your support ...... I'm speechless!!!
Therefore,it can be clearly said that it is possible to create such a game .... now let's go to the next step.

other questions and ideas,and what to do:

1) solve the bounce problem.
2) complete the construction of the table.
3) dmd for points.
5) if we don't have a second player available, how do i play, who should use the other paddle?maybe make it move automatically?
4) would it be possible to use the paddle, with a mouse?

Anyone can express an opinion or some suggestions, is welcome !!!
 
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Gimli

Pinball Hall of Famer
Waooooo!!!:biggrin:

Thanks Gimli (Bob) .... so some of the issues seem to be solved, amazing your support ...... I'm speechless!!!
Therefore,it can be clearly said that it is possible to create such a game .... now let's go to the next step.

other questions and ideas,and what to do:

1) solve the bounce problem.
2) complete the construction of the table.
3) dmd for points.
5) if we don't have a second player available, how do i play, who should use the other poddle?maybe make it move automatically?
4) would it be possible to use the paddle, with a mouse?

Anyone can express an opinion or some suggestions, is welcome !!!
With one player instead of ai you could have a baracade blocking the goal that you need to destroy first or you could simply have a opponent paddle that moves back and forth like swinging log in minigolf
 

Isaac Sauvage

Meep!
Site Supporters
Consultant
4) would it be possible to use the paddle, with a mouse?
That would be my immediate suggestion. Does BAM already support something like that, or perhaps it's something Ravarcade might add?

5) if we don't have a second player available, how do i play, who should use the other poddle?maybe make it move automatically?
Adding an AI opponent would be my next suggestion.

It really shouldn't be hard in a game like this, since a completely unbeatable (defensive-style) AI would simply track the X position of the puck perfectly. A more reasonable AI would introduce some lag in following the X, and probably a level of confusion when the puck velocity temporarily passed a certain value. One could also add "hiccups," where the AI lost concentration for tiny stretches, just like a human opponent.

There's a lot of possibilities, and I think it should mostly be pretty easy to program. The simple nature of Air Hockey really facilitates all that.

Edit: Where I could see it requiring some real math would be for an aggressive AI... one which calculated the perfect shot to aim at the opponents goal, both straight-on, and via bank shot. Hitting those shots with a lot of velocity is a pretty deadly way to rack up the goals. (I've played my share of air hockey over the years)

What would be really fun to play would be an AI with crappy defense, but fantastic offense. Would really keep a player on their toes!
 
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Gimli

Pinball Hall of Famer
That would be my immediate suggestion. Does BAM already support something like that, or perhaps it's something Ravarcade might add?


Adding an AI opponent would be my next suggestion.

It really shouldn't be hard in a game like this, since a completely unbeatable (defensive-style) AI would simply track the X position of the puck perfectly. A more reasonable AI would introduce some lag in following the X, and probably a level of confusion when the puck velocity temporarily passed a certain value. One could also add "hiccups," where the AI lost concentration for tiny stretches, just like a human opponent.

There's a lot of possibilities, and I think it should mostly be pretty easy to program. The simple nature of Air Hockey really facilitates all that.

Edit: Where I could see it requiring some real math would be for an aggressive AI... one which calculated the perfect shot to aim at the opponents goal, both straight-on, and via bank shot. Hitting those shots with a lot of velocity is a pretty deadly way to rack up the goals.

What would be really fun to play would be an AI with crappy defense, but fantastic offense. Would really keep a player on their toes!
Oh ya AI should be doable...I forgot that is what I did a long time ago for this video. So you just have to add some delays randomly so it doesn't execute everything perfectly. I the demo in the video I control the shooting and forward and back with flippers but the AI tracked in x.position

 

wild

No Bam no Play
Chat Moderator
Bob....so I understand that, with your video, it is possible to play against an AI?
so the other paddle, would it behave like in your video?
 

wild

No Bam no Play
Chat Moderator
That would be my immediate suggestion. Does BAM already support something like that, or perhaps it's something Ravarcade might add?
I honestly don't know, but we'll see how the table develops, if at some point, it's worth asking Rav, if it's possible.

With one player instead of ai you could have a baracade blocking the goal that you need to destroy first or you could simply have a opponent paddle that moves back and forth like swinging log in minigolf
in both cases they would be a solution .....
 

Gimli

Pinball Hall of Famer
Here is simple start to AI , we can also make table level like Billiards...

 

Gimli

Pinball Hall of Famer
Simply,awesome ..... you are exceeding my expectations:cool:
Thanks...it is working quite nicely !
Here is an update in AI with it moving also in the y-direction randomly

I also leveled the table
 
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NitroNimbus

Pinball Hall of Famer
Site Supporters
Wow!!
This is really impressive.
It is amazing what FP can do now because of BAM and people like Gimli and Wild pushing the envelope.
Unfortunately it will never be practical to play in a standard pinball cabinet setup and that makes me a little sad, cheers!
 

Gimli

Pinball Hall of Famer
Wow!!
This is really impressive.
It is amazing what FP can do now because of BAM and people like Gimli and Wild pushing the envelope.
Unfortunately it will never be practical to play in a standard pinball cabinet setup and that makes me a little sad, cheers!
With the new code by Rav to Add directional velocity at any time and from any place blows the door wide open in terms of creative possibilities
especially combined with previous code that allows you to move objects across the screen ( in this case the "paddles") and maintain their collision properties.
 

Popotte

Flipper is good for you!
Site Supporters
Well done!
For AI, I think you have to choose in a menu some levels of difficulty: dumb, easy, normal, hard, impossible to beat. Just my opinion.
Good luck!
 

NitroNimbus

Pinball Hall of Famer
Site Supporters
Yep!! Couldn't agree more. I think I am going to stay away from this one.
I don't know how many times I wanted to smash my keyboard through my monitor playing this one on the Amiga so many years ago.
F@#k I am getting OLD!!
Emulators are a beautiful thing and I still love to hate this game, because it is awesome!!
 

Gimli

Pinball Hall of Famer
That would be my immediate suggestion. Does BAM already support something like that, or perhaps it's something Ravarcade might add?
I just discovered a program that I got from GitHub using "AutoHotkeys" Enclosed below and see picture
It allows you to code a mouse to keystrokes (and other devices). It works great if you just go with left and right , but when you add up and down
it seems buggy but that might just be my settings.
mousetokeys.jpg

Adding an AI opponent would be my next suggestion.

It really shouldn't be hard in a game like this, since a completely unbeatable (defensive-style) AI would simply track the X position of the puck perfectly. A more reasonable AI would introduce some lag in following the X, and probably a level of confusion when the puck velocity temporarily passed a certain value. One could also add "hiccups," where the AI lost concentration for tiny stretches, just like a human opponent.

There's a lot of possibilities, and I think it should mostly be pretty easy to program. The simple nature of Air Hockey really facilitates all that.
You were absolutely correct Nic it just took me a while to see it.
Edit: Where I could see it requiring some real math would be for an aggressive AI... one which calculated the perfect shot to aim at the opponents goal, both straight-on, and via bank shot. Hitting those shots with a lot of velocity is a pretty deadly way to rack up the goals. (I've played my share of air hockey over the years)

What would be really fun to play would be an AI with crappy defense, but fantastic offense. Would really keep a player on their toes!
I agree !
 

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wild

No Bam no Play
Chat Moderator
I just discovered a program that
Yes ,, I had something like this in mind, I can emulate the keys, and the mouse, with a my program, so if I set the keyboard buttons, I associate them with a mouse ..... when in FP, we press the arrow keys, we can do it with the mouse, but I still have to test it .....
 

Isaac Sauvage

Meep!
Site Supporters
Consultant
@Gimli,
Yeah, I think I posted my recommendation for a low-profile, keys-to-mouse proggie in the Billiards thread, name of "RBjoy." I've used it off and on for... could be 10-15 years at this point. The interface is a bit dated, though.

Btw, is there really no way of BAM sampling mouse input? Because it does seem pretty natural that some users aren't going to want to mess with 3rd-party programs.

@NitroNimbus,
"Shufflepuck Cafe" was exactly what I was going to suggest! So I guess you enjoyed it on Amiga, while I was doing so on my 1987 Mac+.

To Bob and Paulo, you can try out the DOS version here. Or the Mac version, if you don't mind B&W.

There's probably dozens or hundreds of games like that now, scattered across platforms, but Shufflepuck Cafe does a real nice job demonstrating different opponent personalities. Some of them even have 'power moves' that make the whole thing that much more interesting!
 

wild

No Bam no Play
Chat Moderator
Btw, is there really no way of BAM sampling mouse input?
I think so ..... if Bam ... and so Rav .... has implemented some dll, to integrate, VR, or kinet, or other things that Terry uses for example ..... I think he can create a dll, which can integrate on bam, to use the mouse in some way, configuring it instead of keys .... in fact I wanted to see the development of the table, to be able to ask him directly, if it is possible

EDIT:
a problem may be that "we" have to exclude the manual-roller-ball, because for now with the mouse you control the ball .... at least those who have and use it ..... but this would be the same principle as replacing the keys of the keyboard with the mouse ...... in fact the manual roller ball is a dll "dinput8"
 
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Isaac Sauvage

Meep!
Site Supporters
Consultant
I think so ..... if Bam ... and so Rav .... has implemented some dlls, to integrate, VR, or kinet, or other things that Terry uses for example ..... I think he can create a dll, which can integrate on bam, to use the mouse in some way, configuring it instead of keys .... in fact I wanted to see the development of the table, to be able to ask him directly, if it is possible
I'm thinking there's already BAM code for sampling analog nudge / tilt devices for cabinet users, right?
 

Isaac Sauvage

Meep!
Site Supporters
Consultant
you mean in the bam menu ..... Q key?
I mean anywhere. Like in the table, the table-script, or the BAM menu.

So if you're like Terry or other cabinet users, how does FP - BAM know how to sample input from an analog tilt / nudge device in their cabinet?
 
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