Future Pinball is out!

hmm...still jagged lines, mainly for the cabinet, perhaps it's the antialias option?

As for disabling the game room, that's a checkbox in the video options. It simply turns the rendering off for that.
 
destruk said:
hmm...still jagged lines, mainly for the cabinet, perhaps it's the antialias option?

As for disabling the game room, that's a checkbox in the video options. It simply turns the rendering off for that.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I have that turned off, but I'd like a way to bypass the entire cabinet display thing and get right to the table. And yes, I know my grumpy old man side is showing up, but I've never much of a fan of BS glitz.

John
 
Perhaps you can set the cabinet type to "None" or the cabinet color to 100% transparent? :) Another possibility for the next version could be an option to "SHOWFLYBY=FALSE" in the script for table_init to click play and go right to the table... hmm. We can hope anyway.
 
I hope so, beacuse the first few times the flyby is novel, but when you're working on a table, it gets old quick. I'd also like a way to simply click on a table to play and bypass the editor completely if all I want to do is play a game. I'm hopeful things will improve and that Black will listen to feedback for the next release. There's a lot to like about FP, but I don't think our comment and concerns are nitpicking either.

John
 
I haven't really played with it yet - I mean I gave it a glance, played a bit of sci fi, and looked at the tables it comes with, but less than an hour for that. There is the Play Table with Debugger option - does that still show the flyby?
 
Leo Wanker said:
Pacdude said:
I find it interesting the comments about 1024 height images looking bad in FP after the way Mr. Wanker told us how awful VP is
Click to expand...

I defy you to show where I said that.

Slandering FP for no other reason than you hate Black is one thing but, this outlandish straight out LIE is another.

I have NEVER said VP is awful. NEVER.

You ought to think yourself lucky you live in the states for if you were to say that to my face instead of like a coward you are from behind your internet connection I would punch your teeth out the other side of your face.
Click to expand...

Grow the fuck up Leo.

Too bad if he slandered your toy... but posting veiled violence threats to Internet forums makes you look like a clown.
 
kristian said:
Leo Wanker said:
Pacdude said:
I find it interesting the comments about 1024 height images looking bad in FP after the way Mr. Wanker told us how awful VP is
Click to expand...

I defy you to show where I said that.

Slandering FP for no other reason than you hate Black is one thing but, this outlandish straight out LIE is another.

I have NEVER said VP is awful. NEVER.

You ought to think yourself lucky you live in the states for if you were to say that to my face instead of like a coward you are from behind your internet connection I would punch your teeth out the other side of your face.
Click to expand...

Grow the fuck up Leo.

Too bad if he slandered your toy... but posting veiled violence threats to Internet forums makes you look like a clown.
Click to expand...

Leon, I have to agree with Kristian here. Your lastpost, besides breaking every moral rule you like to spout, and which would have gotten even you in trouble at vpf. simply makes you look foolish. But if somehow you and the Dude ever do meet to duke it out, I'll not only sell tickets, I'll be the Dude's trainer.

For whatever reason, you seem to be able to say whatever you want at vpf and it's overlooked. Now over here we don't warn folks or put them on R/O, instead we enjoy a good laugh at their expense. In the long run what does it matter if you said what the Dude claims you did or not? And yes, you probably did say something along those lines in comparing VP with FP once or twice, and if you did I'm sure the Dude is using it out of context.

That said, I'm unofficially giving you a five minute Time Out, so go stand in the corner and think about how childish that last post of yours makes you appear.

John
 
Trouble shooting in River City

Well, I just spent over an hour and a half going through the FP thread at vpf. It wasn't a lot of fun, but the reason I did it wasn't a very happy one either. If you read back through the last five or six post, back to Pacdude's last one, you'll see that Loen took great exception to some comments that Pacdude claimed Leon had made comparing VP and FP.

Leon replied in a hostile manner, and I tried to use hunor to defuse waht could be a vicious flame war. Leon felt that I was siding with Pacdude and requested that his [Leon's] account be deleted. I've refused to delete Leon's account, first, because Leon has as much right to be a member here as anyone, and because I feel he took my post the wrong way. Leon, I apologize if it seemed I was taking Pacdude's side in this. All I was hoping to do was cool down a hot situaltion.

I searching through those 29 pages I found I post by Leon that mentions image resolution, and the entire post is below, and Leon did not compare quality, merely mentioned information. I put **** before and after that part of Leon's vpf post:

Leo Wanker
IRP Classic EM recreator

Registered: May 2001
Location: Victoria, Australia
Posts: 1067

Report this post
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quote:
Originally posted by Liteuser
Sorry , if this has been asked before.

Will FP come with a starter template?
If yes , is the template free to be used for a new table that is able to be released?


When you click 'New' you get a basic table with walls and default parts. Although it is not final yet you should be able to create and save and make available any table you create with the free version.
This could be subject to change.


quote:
Will there be two different versions of FP , one you have to pay for and the other free?
If yes , Will the pay version of FP be the only version to build and keep my own tables?


This is the plan for now (one free, one pay). You can build and share tables with the free version.


quote:
Will the file size for a FP table be higher than the same table would be in VP?

****
More than likely. FP's editor is capable of far higher resolution graphics importing than VP.
The tables I have been experimenting with building so far I have been using playfield pics that are twice the resolution than I would use for VP.
****

quote:
Will FP come with a blank tutorial table?


Yes and no. There will be a blank table as described above. However, the code is going to be heavily commented with hints and sections that will help guide the user in where best to place certain (basic) routines. Some basic functions will be already there for use by the user.
Subject to possible change. (of course)


quote:
Are the walls used to make table parts drag lines same as VP?


Yes but, 'walls' as you call them are called 'surfaces' in FP because they are a little different in that they are more for use as a second playfield or a plastic and such. They are less likely to be used as ball guides as there will be a few model objects for that specific purpose.
There are NO "drop" walls in FP.


quote:
Hope its no big deal that I asked these questions, Thanks for any answers.


My pleasure.

Last edited by Leo Wanker on 07-21-2005 at 06:58 AM
****

So it seems that Pacdude maybe should have checked exactly what Leon had said, but still, the bad blood between Pacdude and Leon caused this problem, not what was or wasn't said. But PN hasn't and won't edit posts, and we can't and won't control what members say. But I will ask that everyone remember that there is a person behind the avatar and username.

I've used the trem Friendly Foe in the past, and I would hope that at the worst, we could be that, Friendly. With me, it's not a matter of who is right or who is wrong, but that we all respect ourselves enough not to make total jerks of ourselves. Leon can and has added a lot to our discussions, and I hope he will continue to do so. Pacdude has done the same.

IMNSHO, Pacdude is a master at pushing people's buttons, and it is no more apparent than when he squares off against Leon. I ask that both of you lighten up a bit, especially you Dude. Opinions are one thing, but if you are going to claim Leon said something, check and make sure exactly what he did say. Please make an effort to be a bit more civil for now on.

John
 
um john, maybe i'm wrong to take this out of context, but...
tiltjlp said:
For whatever reason, you seem to be able to say whatever you want at vpf and it's overlooked. Now over here we don't warn folks or put them on R/O, instead we enjoy a good laugh at their expense.
Click to expand...
you mean in the end the difference between VPF and PN is that at one place nothing is said in response but at the other place someone is derided? with the implication that the latter is the better approach? okay maybe that's not what you meant, but that's the way that text reads to me.

really, it's kind of annoying to read the tired old cliché about "nothing ever being done at VPF about fill-in-the-blank users". this remark is made again-and-again through the years by anyone who's mad at some other person or people and wish the staff would come down on their particular side and kick the other user(s) in the pants for them. (usually to settle some personal argument or pet-peeve for them, altho the person complaining almost never ACTUALLY admits that)

also, the person complaining usually isn't willing to try PM's, an arbitrator, reporting actual posts and content, volunteering for the staff to 'fix' the problem or other various proactive solutions. it's usually just someone passing the buck, blaming the staff, and trying to puff up their feathers a little bit. i've seen this coming from different people through the years while various different staffs were in place and it almost always come across to me as lame, lazy and self-aggrandazing. not to mention whiny. and it never helps the site or anyone involved, altho it can help cliques thrive a little bit.

so give it up, bitches!

ahem, i mean... can we talk about this some more, please? :)
 
Yes Nic, I think you did take my comment out of context, because it was not a slam against vpf at all. I have observed that Leon tends to get away with more snide and uncalled for comments than many of us other members do. I know that was my perception in the past but to be honest, I haven't noticed it lately for a few reasons. The reasons are that Leon doesn;t seem to be posting as much lately, I have tomed down my comments, which often lead to Leon's own comments, possibly I haven't been paying as much attention, or the new staff is handling it better.

I have no problem with vpf having Family Freinds rules, that's for AJ and staff to determine. And I did notice a few times that Leon and Pacdude were told to cool their jets, so maybe the new staff does have it more under control. SAo the "you" I used was not generic in nature, but specific to Leon.

And where you and the vpf staff try to handle things on a personal one on one level, we try to handle things out in the open. Neither way is better, simply different. And since we never edit member's posts, I feel that we do need to handle thing more openly. simply because the good, the bad, and the ugly are all there for everyone to see, so should the disruptions and negotiations.

As you know nic, I do use the PM system at vpf to discuss issues and to ask questions, and will continue to when I feel that is what is needed.

In this situation, since my attempt at using humor to defuse a bad situation failed, and since Leon asked for his account to be removed, I felt that it should be handled in the open, in the hope that Pacdude would see the need to back off a bit in his feud with Leon. I hope this clears things up, and that you realize I wasn't at all trying to say anything negative about vpf. Also, my perception that Leon gets away with more stuff than many of us might be due to the fact that many of his snide comments have been directed at me in the past, until I toned down my own comments. Peace nic.

John
 
peace, john. and thanks for the clarification. :)

it was a general pet-peeve of mine directed mostly into the ether and i prolly shouldn't have begun it with a quote from you. on the one hand it makes sense to show the starting point of one's train of thought. on the other hand it's not good to inadvertantly pick on someone. my bad. again, it was just meant for the "bad user target dummy" that exists in my head. not you.

of course, regarding leon, i haven't seen any reported posts or PM's of any kind about his conduct. i've seen him get spirited at times (like you say, not recently) but then i've seen that with lots and lots of people in the scene. an important thing i'd ask people to keep in mind (not picking on you :)) is that we're only volunteers and can't necessarily read every post made and detect every bit of 'guideline-breaking' text that gets posted. that's why i want people to report posts if they think something is out-of-line and needs to be looked at. it's sort of like putting your money where your mouth is, i guess.

i dunno. i think i make less and less sense lately, lol.
 
Give me a break, people. Leon has been busy sucking up to Black for the past year and jumped on me every time I said ANYTHING about FP over at VPF, fact or opinion. The guy is a lackee for Black and while everything I say may appear negative to some about FP, everything Leon says is suck up city in regards to FP. When he was one of the few that had access, all he could do was tell us how great FP is and how more realistic it is (obviously than VP). I got the distinct impression that he thinks FP is 'da shit' and therefore VP is old hat. He could brag all he wanted about FP when we didn't have access to it. Now when everyone that has XP can download it and try it out, it's obvious that some of the claims made for FP are exaggerated. In the photos I've seen, there are still jaggies. Flippers disappear. Giant watermarks cover the tables and most people are getting frame rates that look more like slideshows than animation. My comments are simply a reaction to what people are saying about it. I can't even run the thing because Black decided Win98SE sucks and he can't be bothered to fix the bugs in the program so it will work on it. But I find it INTERESTING (there's a really horrible word to use) that everyone isn't as giddy about the visuals they're getting with FP as Leon obviously was. So for that (which anyone that's not from Australia can probably read in plain english), I get the old standard reply about violence and misquoting. Where did I quote? I'm going by memory here. And I'm not about to go through 80 pages of threads on two forums to find where I got the distinct impression that Leon thinks FP is the cat's meow and the direction for pinball. Am I really the only person that got that impression from his posts over the past year he's been bragging about FP for Chris?

Paleeze. Mr. Wanker is the type that can dish it out, but when someone critisizes something he says, he's ready to punch teeth out. That only proves how uncivilized he really is, IMO. I was the bad guy at VPF and everyone on the dark side pretended I was some mischievous evil dude who could only mod and not make and could only talk negative about other people and yet once the playing field is at all equalized, the truth comes out. They're pissy little miserable people that are at least as ass-backward as they make me out to be. We're simply on different sides of the same line. It's fracking politics. Democrats. Republicans. They're all cut from the same cloth. They're both standing on the side of an imaginary line they call the middle. They can't talk to each other cuz their boss said so. FP Rules! FP Sucks! FP Rules! FP Sucks! It's tiring isn't it? It'll never end either because neither side is listening to the other. Why? Because it's noise.

Yeah, it really is hard for me to respect someone like Black when he sends his cronies to talk for him about things like FP and threatens to not include features because he doesn't like someone. But then given his response to Paratech a few years back, it's probably just as well as he threatened even more violence there than his pawns do here.

Hey SteveOz, is everyone so fracking cowboy vigilante in your country or is just a minority? People talk about the US and guns and what not, but it's mostly talk, IMO. Most gun owners are law-abiding citizens, not reckless vigilantes with bar-brawl style short tempers.
 
No problem nic, I can understand how you might have thought I was bashing vpf, since I've not always been thrilled with the way things have gone there. Right now I have no qualms.

As far as VP versus FP, I think comparisons are useless right now, since FP is just starting out, where as possibly VP has reached the end of it's development, although I sure hope not.

I've started working with FP, and things are going slowly, since I'm new at it, and I'm not the fastest learner in town. There are some things I really like about FP, some I don't care for, and some I'll get used to. Having used VP for 4 years and 79 releases, it's a bit of a chore trying to figure out how to do things the FP way without a document similar to the Visual Guide. Let's hope someone comes up with a Future Guide before too long.

As for Leon and Dude, I doubt if they'll ever be able to peacefully co-exist, but it would be nice if they could be a bit lower key with there sometimes childish bickering. Both fellows are talented and respected authors, and being creative, they often don't seem to have the greatest of social skills. Both of them are welcome here, and although Leon has asked that his account be removed, I wrote and asked him to reconsider.

The VP/FP community, and yes that's what we've become, has survived worse things than the Leon/Dude feud, and while at times it is amusing, it also gets old quick. Why not agree to disagree and ignore each other for a while? To quote something an uncle used to say, and yes, it takes some thinking about it before it makes sense, Shut Up So I Can Hear You Better.

John :s
 
Pacdude said:
Give me a break, people. Leon has been busy sucking up to Black for the past year and jumped on me every time I said ANYTHING about FP over at VPF, fact or opinion. The guy is a lackee for Black and while everything I say may appear negative to some about FP, everything Leon says is suck up city in regards to FP. When he was one of the few that had access, all he could do was tell us how great FP is and how more realistic it is (obviously than VP). I got the distinct impression that he thinks FP is 'da shit' and therefore VP is old hat. He could brag all he wanted about FP when we didn't have access to it. Now when everyone that has XP can download it and try it out, it's obvious that some of the claims made for FP are exaggerated. In the photos I've seen, there are still jaggies. Flippers disappear. Giant watermarks cover the tables and most people are getting frame rates that look more like slideshows than animation. My comments are simply a reaction to what people are saying about it. I can't even run the thing because Black decided Win98SE sucks and he can't be bothered to fix the bugs in the program so it will work on it. But I find it INTERESTING (there's a really horrible word to use) that everyone isn't as giddy about the visuals they're getting with FP as Leon obviously was. So for that (which anyone that's not from Australia can probably read in plain english), I get the old standard reply about violence and misquoting. Where did I quote? I'm going by memory here. And I'm not about to go through 80 pages of threads on two forums to find where I got the distinct impression that Leon thinks FP is the cat's meow and the direction for pinball. Am I really the only person that got that impression from his posts over the past year he's been bragging about FP for Chris?

Paleeze. Mr. Wanker is the type that can dish it out, but when someone critisizes something he says, he's ready to punch teeth out. That only proves how uncivilized he really is, IMO. I was the bad guy at VPF and everyone on the dark side pretended I was some mischievous evil dude who could only mod and not make and could only talk negative about other people and yet once the playing field is at all equalized, the truth comes out. They're pissy little miserable people that are at least as ass-backward as they make me out to be. We're simply on different sides of the same line. It's fracking politics. Democrats. Republicans. They're all cut from the same cloth. They're both standing on the side of an imaginary line they call the middle. They can't talk to each other cuz their boss said so. FP Rules! FP Sucks! FP Rules! FP Sucks! It's tiring isn't it? It'll never end either because neither side is listening to the other. Why? Because it's noise.

Yeah, it really is hard for me to respect someone like Black when he sends his cronies to talk for him about things like FP and threatens to not include features because he doesn't like someone. But then given his response to Paratech a few years back, it's probably just as well as he threatened even more violence there than his pawns do here.

Hey SteveOz, is everyone so fracking cowboy vigilante in your country or is just a minority? People talk about the US and guns and what not, but it's mostly talk, IMO. Most gun owners are law-abiding citizens, not reckless vigilantes with bar-brawl style short tempers.
Click to expand...

What a load of bullshit Just to try and cover up the fact you made up a LIE about me to try and make your point.
I have always been respectfull and appreciative to both Randy and Black for VP.
I have NEVER said VP was awful. NEVER.
Admit it YOU LIED.

Pacdud at VPF said:
Some of the people here are probably right why I lash out about FP, etc. VP is one of the few things that gave me any sense of purpose through the past few years (all kinds of bad crap happened during that time, some like the persistent eye pain and broken wrist and finger some of you alrady know about) and I see that purpose ending with FP. I don't like what I see in my future. I don't like my current real world job or my life as it is now and either I need to find a way to change it so I do like it or I'm going to end up in a hospital somewhere or worse.
Click to expand...

From your very obnoxious mouth is the reason you get stuck into FP and Black and me.
Keep clinging on to that little sparkly beam of light you like to bask in because it is dwindling smaller and smaller and YOU KNOW IT.
You are chewing on a bucket of Bitter pills at the moment and once that little beam of sparkly light fades completely out the only pill for you left to swallow will be a LEAD ONE.
You are a friggin dinosaur.
less and less coders are going to continue to make programs that are BACKWARDS (much like yourself) compatible to old OS's like Win98.
Get with the program or dry up and blow away with the wind.
 
Everything you just said Leo PROVES that what I said was 100% accurate. You're once again saying VP is crap and FP is the greatest (yeah I KNOW IT).

As for attempting to use someone's bad day to clobber them over the head is beyond bad taste, Leo. It makes you look lower than the dirt you live in.

Now go back to begging John to remove your account before you start crying again.
 
Very small minority are really rude in Aus PD. I think you've hit Leo's buttons and he's got his back up. (Edit): He seems to be pushing your buttons pretty well too!

By the way, will both of you CHILL OUT.

You're both right in your own ways - FP was over hyped but the FP crew aren't exactly Robinson Crusoe doing that. FP is also version 1 so wait 'til it has some time to mature. It is nice, but it is also resource hungry - hopefully it will only stay as hungry as it is at the moment, which means that in 3 years time it will run on a 3 year old PC.

Win98 is old and not supported for a lot of things, but it is also what a lot of people still have (I only went XP last week with a new PC, the old one is still on ME (upchuck)).

Personally I'll see what happens but, unfortunately, this does seem to be causing a split. Some people jumping to FP and others staying with VP. I like the flexibility of VP at the moment (eg: using a ramp for a lockbar - nice) but I will probably end up making tables for both, just not yet.

DS
 
in other news, lol, I am BANNED from future pinball forums for posting a hacked future pinball exe on a newsgroup. I removed the logos displayed when the table is played. :) So anyone who wants a copy, it's on the alt.binaries.emulators.pinball newsgroup - and this can be done for whatever new version comes out. I'll probably redouble my efforts now on hacking the program, as now black n friends don't have much more they can do to me personally. I don't get how they expect everyone to 'respect' their code, and yet allow copyrighted images in their software, rip code from vp to use in their software, use other people's tables without permission for their software, etc etc. But it is their forum and they can ban whomever they want, that's basically where their legal rights end. Don't worry about me, I can't post or read their forums, but why would I need to? :)
 
It already has caused a split, Davidsss and it will only get worse as FP supporters tout their preferred program while dismissing VP as a dinosaur as in this thread.

Most of us can plainly see the similiarty of the interface and a lot of ideas from Randy's program. Yet there's things like annoying watermarks in FP and talk about bans on copyrights at the site and yet even the included "SciFI" table is a rip off of Shiva's Trigon layout and you'd have to be blind not to notice a LOT of similiarities.

I'd post a direct comparison here, but there's no way to post a picture int his particular forum. So I'll post it at VPF instead since people there want to talk about FP in a set of VP forums.
 
destruk said:
in other news, lol, I am BANNED from future pinball forums for posting a hacked future pinball exe on a newsgroup. I removed the logos displayed when the table is played. :) So anyone who wants a copy, it's on the alt.binaries.emulators.pinball newsgroup - and this can be done for whatever new version comes out. I'll probably redouble my efforts now on hacking the program, as now black n friends don't have much more they can do to me personally. I don't get how they expect everyone to 'respect' their code, and yet allow copyrighted images in their software, rip code from vp to use in their software, use other people's tables without permission for their software, etc etc. But it is their forum and they can ban whomever they want, that's basically where their legal rights end. Don't worry about me, I can't post or read their forums, but why would I need to? :)
Click to expand...

Well, since Leon just insisted that I remove his account, we'll consider it a trade, and I'd say we sure got the best part of the bargain. Actually Leon threatened to attack Pacdude even more strongly and more relentlessly if I didn't remove his membership. Hey, I don't want anyone here if they don't want to be here, all I did was ask him to reconsider.

I still would rather not see this turn into a VP versus FP war, since I see potential for FP, if only Black will allow some flexibility for our more experienced authors. There's nothing wrong with having pre designed parts, but they need to be able to be resized or altered, and dropable walls are a must, as I explained to Black. If he insists that every table created with FP is real world realistic, FP won't be very popular. Even with the flipperless template he's making for me. if I can't have flexibility in design most of my project will never be made as FP tables.

And now a moment's silence for our hero who took one on the chin for all of us. :p

John
 
Okay, lets see about this. I decided to take one of my tables, and see if it's possible I can get FP to look better than the vpm version. I thought it would be easy as I have all the graphics done for it already. Well... most of these new features in FP are pretty useless, or very very annoying. Especially the light rendering effects, which I can do way better in VP, so I had to work around that. Then those damn bulbs have those really intense hot spots, that totally overpower the texture (anyone else notice that?) Again a work around, still a pain though.
Now I found that decals won't work on my computer (transparency problems, figures with me), and of course, I get 2 frames per second when I check the table.
At least no one can accuse me of doing a "cookie cutter" design, but I found that all these new features work best as a accent, an enhancement more than anything. To be honest, it's just like doing a VPM table, but with more cursing. The lack of flexibility really hurts though. Should be better control on things, especially the lights, and the stock ornaments are a little limited in size. I already notice some standard Bally parts missing, so I can't make images up, things like brackets. The one they missed was the plunger metal cover, that's on every single Bally game, and most others as well.
The scale on the models is good, a little off with some things, but still close enough. The Texture manager I've had some problems, sometimes it won't save the image, it's just a solid grey color, so I have to resave the image as 32 bit bmp, that works, but the most annoying thing is to reimport, you select the image, hit reimport, than have to select the same image again. What's up with that?
Hopefully, they will add droppable walls, and continue to add stuff, as it stands, I find it a bit tougher to do graphics, and of course, it's totally unplayable for me as well with no card. Like the reflections though. :)
 
No way to post pics?

mmmm, let's see...

Again it seems to work here?

Hey SteveOz, is everyone so fracking cowboy vigilante in your country or is just a minority? People talk about the US and guns and what not, but it's mostly talk, IMO. Most gun owners are law-abiding citizens, not reckless vigilantes with bar-brawl style short tempers.
Click to expand...

Don't know haven't met everyone in this country yet, though I have met a few and most are rather laid back actually.

:D
 

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Leo:

catinternet.jpg
 
Hmm, Flash. Wouldn't mind doing that down the road. Now you know one of the other reasons I can't make Trigon for FP, I made it a non standard size. ;)
Was that a update to Flash? Didn't reconize it with wall bumpers (*grin*) and droppable walls for lights. Must have missed that one anyway.
 
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