Gottlieb Solved Hot Shot (Gottlieb, 1973) Help Needed!

[Tommycanyouhearme]

I had this machine working 100% about a year ago and then things started to go wrong. It was put aside for a while but now it's time to bring it back to life. When the start button is pushed it tries to reset but the last two numbers move very slowly or stop all together. If it does complete the start up there are no playfield lights,the tilt light is on and the ball does not kick out.
Any thought on where I should look first?

Thanks,
Tom

 

[pinballdaveh]

hi tom i hope your surgery will be a thumbs up. here are the next tests to try when you are ready. WITH THE MACHINE UN-PLUGGED. test 1 using your DMM set to resistance range Rx1 or diode/buzz range , clip red lead on to 1A red-wh wire and clip black lead to 3B mar-wh wire. manually hold in S start relay , slowly manually turn score motor until DMM reads zero or buzzes. this is the spot where 1A and 3B are both closed. using a marker , put a mark on the top cam position 1 at this zero resistance reading. return score motor to position 1 home position. test 2 keeping red lead on red-wh wire , move black lead and clip it on or-wh wire on start relay coil , manually push and hold in start relay , zero resistance or buzz should be heard right away. slowly manually turn score motor to the spot where the DMM goes off zero or stops buzzing. put a mark on the top cam position 1 where this happens. the distance between the 2 marks is the time allowed for the SB1 to pull in.

 

[Tommycanyouhearme]

Hello Dave,
Surgery went well, thumb is feeling great. While doing the test you outlined my friend and I discovered a that one of the switch stack tabs on sore motor 1b did not have a wire going to it. It was supposed to be joined to this tab right above it on 1c. We joined them and now have the machine resetting properly! The only problem now is when playing the game when it gets to the 4th ball and the double bonus lights the playfield fuse blows. Do you have any idea what could cause this?

Thank you,
Tom

 

[pinballdaveh]

double bonus is controled by the LB latch in relay on the control bank. un-solder the insulated wire to the LB coil ( the common wires for these coils are usually bare ) and re-test machine at ball 4. change over to 3 balls per game and re-test at ball 2. does the fuse blow? look for shorted wire connections on LB stack switches. un-loosen the bank wing nuts , and flip up bank to work on it. manually change the state of each LB stack switch to see if the fuse blows. if the fuse blows doing this post the wire colors of the switch. try to find the switch on the schematic and post that portion of the schematic.

 

[Tommycanyouhearme]

double bonus is controled by the LB latch in relay on the control bank. un-solder the insulated wire to the LB coil ( the common wires for these coils are usually bare ) and re-test machine at ball 4. (FUSE DID NOT BLOW)

change over to 3 balls per game and re-test at ball 2. does the fuse blow? (RESOLDERED COIL WIRE AND FUSE BLEW ON FIRST BALL)

look for shorted wire connections on LB stack switches. un-loosen the bank wing nuts , and flip up bank to work on it.(DID NOT FIND ANY WIRES THAT LOOKED SHORTED)

manually change the state of each LB stack switch to see if the fuse blows.(FUSE BLEW) if the fuse blows doing this post the wire colors of the switch. (CLOSING SWITCH WITH ORG+WH WIRE DIMS LIGHTS, WILL BLOW FUSE IF HELD)

try to find the switch on the schematic and post that portion of the schematic.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/bzek19niavkpkok/AAAoOV-npO0gxOjXd0iRXa7ea?dl=0

 

[pinballdaveh]

thank you for the info. next remove the 1000 , 2000 , and 3000 bonus multiplier bulbs. check those 3 sockets for shorts. check or-wh wire at playfield jones plugs. i didnt ask before but its the playfield illum. fuse thats blowing correct. re-test machine on 5 ball play see if and when fuse blows. check bulbs that they are correct # 44 or 47. try those 3 bulbs in a gen illum. socket. after 1st re-test replace 3000 bulb and re-test. then replace 1000 bulb and re-test. then replace 2000 bulb and re-test.

 

[Tommycanyouhearme]

Yes it is the playfield illumination fuse.

 

[pinballdaveh]

in the last dropbox schematic portion for lights that you posted there is something that you dont see often , a relay coil. this relay coil is wound for 6 volts. its part of the bonus circuit. each drop target EOS switch is daisy chained throu a bonus step unit disc rivet to its numbered ball light socket. so the bonus step unit disc rivets should be kept clean for proper 6volt relay pulsing. this was done to save on drop target switches and wiring.

 

[Tommycanyouhearme]

thank you for the info. next remove the 1000 , 2000 , and 3000 bonus multiplier bulbs. check those 3 sockets for shorts. (No shorts)

check or-wh wire at playfield jones plugs. (Jones plugs have no issues.)

i didnt ask before but its the playfield illum. fuse that's blowing correct. (Yes Playfield fuse is the one blowing.)

re-test machine on 5 ball play see if and when fuse blows. (It blows on 4th ball.)

check bulbs that they are correct # 44 or 47. (Yes they are new #47 bulbs.)

try those 3 bulbs in a gen illum. socket. (Worked fine.)

after 1st re-test replace 3000 bulb and re-test. then replace 1000 bulb and re-test. then replace 2000 bulb and re-test. (Fuse blows with no bulbs.)

Traced short back to LB relay white and black wire, unsoldered wire and game plays without blowing fuses. It scores bonus points correctly, just no bonus lights.

 

[pinballdaveh]

the problem should be narrowed down to the control bank HB relay switch stack with or-wh , and br-wh wires. check for shorts or solder splashes around this stack.

 

[Tommycanyouhearme]

Hi Dave,
I found a sliver of solder on top of a switch stack on the LB relay. After cleaning it the machine ran fine for a few games on 1 player and 3 more games on 2 players and all of a sudden the fuse blew again.

We unsoldered the org-wh wire on HB and the game plays without blowing the fuse but the 2000 bonus light never comes on and the game scores double bonus on the 1st 3 balls even though the 1000 bonus light is on. The 3000 light comes on for the 4th and 5th balls and scores 3000 bonus points for both balls.

We have noticed that the HB relay pulls in when the game is started, is this normal? When should the LB and HB relays pull in?

Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Tom

 

[pinballdaveh]

the HB and LB relays are for the 2000 and 3000 bonus multiplier. those 2 relays should only pull in when the player up unit counts to the proper ball. the player up unit wiper disc and the 3-5 ball adj are the two main things that allow the two relays to pull in. so no the HB or LB should not pull in at the start of a game. check the player up unit disc and wiper arm for shorts or problems.

 

[Tommycanyouhearme]

On further inspection the HB 3000 point bonus relay is pulling when first ball is put in play. When the game reaches 4th ball LB pulls in and blows the fuse. I assume it is because HB and LB are in at the same time and shouldn't be. Is that correct? What could be causing the HB to pull in when it is not supposed to?

 

[Tommycanyouhearme]

Hi Dave, Sorry if I asked the same questions in the last 2 posts!
After playing with the tabs on the switches of the HB relay it has stopped pulling in prematurely. The game played for quite a while on 2 players and then the playfield lights went out again. When we play it on 1 player it seems to be fine. The problem seems to be intermittent at this point, but I think it may have something to do with when the game is on 2 players. I guess I will keep playing it for a bit and see if I can figure out exactly when it happens.

 

[Tommycanyouhearme]

Hello Pinballdaveh,
My Hot Shot machine has been working 100% for the last 10 days. Thank you so much for sharing your incredible knowledge and all the time and help you have given me getting this machine working again. Without you I probably would have given up and sold it.
Also thanks to everyone else who chimed in with there post and help they offered.

Keep those old EM's humming!
PinballTom113