VP8 Bally SS Recreation Mr. & Mrs. PAC-MAN version bb5.2 released

[Shockman]

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Mr. & Mrs. PAC-MAN version bb5.2 rel

conspiracies? yes. not everwhere I go elton, but yes, I can see them.

 

[tiltjlp]

If I were king of the world for 1 minute my only mandate would be that Shockman would permanently lose Internet access. That's the only way he'll ever change. I wonder why no one has started a pool on how long it'll be before his next ban, his next threat, his next profanity, his next stupidity. Oops, too late on his next stupidity, he's already posted. I do wonder if Rob046 is Shockman's son?

 

[Shockman]

Welcome back John.

What did I never do to you?

You think I am the worst person in the world, and I think you are one of the better ones. One of us must be wrong.

You think that's the only way I'd ever change. Ban me from the internet, and water and air too? That's one way John, Instead of what I was going to say I give you a fair chance. You can't think of another way? You can think of only one way? I bet you could. You're a smart guy.
I hope you stay around, or at least visit more often.

 

[StevOz]

Well I did air your case at VPF, seems you've burnt all your bridges Shockman, can't say I'm surprised. Anyhows for the record, I can't restore your account at VPF, only an Admin has those powers, also I have never lied to you.

Here is the reply...

steve, i agree with you that shockman needs to state that he's going to behave, but there's more to it than that- he needs to understand what he did that caused the problem in the first place and lose the self-centered attitude.

reading that thread right there, he's still being an obnoxious asshole. this is still the guy who was posting here under a fake account with a new set of IP's less than two weeks ago. why do you want to do him any favors? why does the subject of shockman being let back in have to constantly, and i mean constantly be a hot topic?

if the guy could just sit down, shut up, and prove himself to be a productive member of the community for a few months it would go 10x farther making a good impression than his constant obnoxious and aggressive attempts to get back in to VPF. he's been told this by bob and other fairly neutral parties over and over again and he still refuses to listen and understand.

furthermore, despite the best intentions you can't force people to change. whenever we work with a difficult member we always hope that we can encourage them through either diplomacy or the D/A system to alter their behavior enough to fit in, but if they refuse to change then it's not our problem. the staff here spent 10x more effort than should ever have been spent on shockman, and he's no longer our problem. we owe him absolutely nothing, it's 100% clear that we did the right thing for the community, and frankly i want my wasted time back.

until the day he realises that he's the source of his own problems in the VP scene, then nothing has changed.

feel free to reprint this post at PN- i doubt it will do any good, but at least it will be clear that another staffer replied to your idea.

 

[Shockman]

Oh, you're making that up 'Oz.

Then why did nicolas.b say what he did to me a short time ago? Why?

Come on guys! gimmy a Why?

 

[Shockie]

Why Shockman?

 

[Shockman]

why does the subject of shockman being let back in have to constantly, and i mean constantly be a hot topic?

You made it a hot topic when you posted that we could talk about the terms of my return.
You made it a hot topic when you did it again.
You made it a hot topic when you said you don't like to keep a person down.
You made it a hot topic when you had a vote.
You made it a hot topic too nicolas.b.
TMFP did as well.
Me too.

Why don't you tell us why you backed out when it ws a done deal?

 

[elton]

I am posting this reply because you referred to me earlier, and for no other reason. If you want to believe I'm hounding you like a fly on shit that's up to you. But if I'm the fly you're the shit - and I'm just quoting ya back. :)

When I refer to the good vs the evil shockman I am of course referring to the civilised posts you're capable of vs your hate filled rants. You switch between them at will and for no apparent reason as if your meds just ran out!

Oh well, and here's the W H Y you wanted. :) Glad to be of service on this occasion.

 

[Cobracure]

You are clearly suffering from some mental problems, Shockman.


I hope you are able to get treatment for them in the near future or at least talk them over with someone. It's sad to see what has happened to you, especially as over 90% of it has been of your own doing.

Enough people have posted as to what you need to do to rectify your current situation - its a shame you cant act upon the advice given.


PS: Oh and if you do decide to call me a stupid fucker - do you think I'll care?

 

[Shockman]

As for what you think, if you think I care then you are a stupid fucker, it don't matter if I say it or not.

 

[Shockman]

Public posting permission assumed.

Well I did air your case at VPF, seems you've burnt all your bridges Shockman, can't say I'm surprised. Anyhows for the record, I can't restore your account at VPF, only an Admin has those powers, also I have never lied to you.

Here is the reply...

steve, i agree with you that shockman needs to state that he's going to behave, but there's more to it than that- he needs to understand what he did that caused the problem in the first place and lose the self-centered attitude.

reading that thread right there, he's still being an obnoxious asshole. this is still the guy who was posting here under a fake account with a new set of IP's less than two weeks ago. why do you want to do him any favors? why does the subject of shockman being let back in have to constantly, and i mean constantly be a hot topic?

if the guy could just sit down, shut up, and prove himself to be a productive member of the community for a few months it would go 10x farther making a good impression than his constant obnoxious and aggressive attempts to get back in to VPF. he's been told this by bob and other fairly neutral parties over and over again and he still refuses to listen and understand.

furthermore, despite the best intentions you can't force people to change. whenever we work with a difficult member we always hope that we can encourage them through either diplomacy or the D/A system to alter their behavior enough to fit in, but if they refuse to change then it's not our problem. the staff here spent 10x more effort than should ever have been spent on shockman, and he's no longer our problem. we owe him absolutely nothing, it's 100% clear that we did the right thing for the community, and frankly i want my wasted time back.

until the day he realises that he's the source of his own problems in the VP scene, then nothing has changed.

feel free to reprint this post at PN- i doubt it will do any good, but at least it will be clear that another staffer replied to your idea.

Who wrote that 'Oz?
nicolas.b? He is a liar you know. Don't you? He said I could come back. He said it a number of times. that one thing makes him a liar, even though that is more than one thing. The thing with AJ though, if my lies hurt people, and kept them down like that one does, I would rather not live. He don't like that one either. he even said he did not say it until I quoted it and a nother member said he saw it too.
He says I have to do more than behave, that's a fucking joke. The man told me about that other thing. I know what it is. I have to say that it is a bit clearer. But I did.

I did everything that nicolas.b said I needed to do to get my membership back. I said everything I needed to say, and more. I got it back. It is mine. It is not something I NEED to wait months to enjoy. he already gave it back to me. I can fight for it because it is mine. I paid for it. I took it up with AJ. I said it was clearer. I answered Peter's questions. This is the first time I heard from them that there was something else I had to do. In fact nicolas.b said it was over. The SOB even had me fetch a fucking post he made, and said he don't like to keep a person down. He is a liar.

You guys live with that. I could as well. So what if the admin of vpf is a liar? what do you expect. I'm a liar too. but I am not keeping anybody down.

If nicolas.b did not say he would confine me to the AC I would not have said any of the things I did that I felt could be misunderstood, I would have been more careful of giving my opinions of them. That is not a lie. Unfortunatly what nic. said was. There is a word for that. and there is a word for people that do that. But if I use those words I spam all y'all. Or worse, I have a mental problem that makes our bud Cobra so sad.

Burnt all my bridges 'Oz? Can't be. they would have told me. they would have loved to tell me. what they told me was...

Someone want's their membership back, someone is not going to get their membership back if" If. If!

I don't like to keep a person down.

You can get another account, and you can even post, as long as you do not torment the staff about the past.

If AJ over turns it, then so be it.

If you go get that A>B>C post and post it, then...

If you say it's a bit clearer, then...

How much do I need to post. This is what nicolas.b, and TheManFromPOST said. Two out of three admins. at VPF support giving me a last chance, and the third gave me that. only to have it taken away by those two.

Do I need to shut up? You all say you have heard it before, but I never said it, I wrote it. Did you ever read it? Why is this OK with you?

Steve would let me know I think. In fact he has. he said the next ban I get here will be for 3 weeks. Ouch. but he did say it. He's not fucking with me. He does move too much of my stuff to the junkyard, but I give him enough shit for it too. The point is I think I would know, if I was burning my last chance with Steve. Thanks Steve, and thanks for trying to help me out here, I know it's not because you like me, but becaues it's just right, but that's Ok, the best in fact. If I lost my membership here, all I would have left is my buds over at PO and there is not many there. tiltjlp's gone, the stupid fucker, because I, though I supported a shun of Ron, I did not support the torment John did. Someone warned him, I forget who that that could build support back for Ron and it did with me. Fuck, kick the fuckers out if you can not live with them, or stfu. don't start a campaign to spiral them down to the devil knows where! Too bad too, John and I was working a bit with each other and discussing expanding that venture at that very time. He left there too you know? Blames me for everything. What everything IS I don't know, but I just know it's my fault. I don't read these these long ass posts most of the time. I'm usually very shot and pointed. Drove Neptune crazy.

Anyway, I don't want to be gone three weeks. It's really not fair, because I don't leave, I'm still here, it's you all that leaves. One person, kicking another person out of a group of 100's I wouldn't do it I think. Neptune?, no. a week did it for him, or a month, whatever it was (I thought it would for him) me it would be after 2 months (or what ever Steve will allow it to get to a week at a time) like "what did you fuckers do that for?"

Anyway, Oh, I did the anyway thing already. Anyway, A person should know if he is burning his last chance. I had every reason to believe nic. that I wasn't!

A LAST chance. What does it cost? revenge?

 

[JonPurpleHaze]

Just when I thought the evil shockman was gone

.....

Everyone should know what is happening, Shockman is VERY pissed off over being banned for life @ vpf...

I used to believe i could try and get his jail sentence reduced but his comments (vpf does care about other sites?) have made my attempts ridiculous. What happened to the VPFF days when the VPF staff didn't (supposedly) care about other sites comments?

steve, i agree with you that shockman needs to state that he's going to behave, but there's more to it than that- he needs to understand what he did that caused the problem in the first place and lose the self-centered attitude.

reading that thread right there, he's still being an obnoxious asshole. this is still the guy who was posting here under a fake account with a new set of IP's less than two weeks ago. why do you want to do him any favors? why does the subject of shockman being let back in have to constantly, and i mean constantly be a hot topic?

if the guy could just sit down, shut up, and prove himself to be a productive member of the community for a few months it would go 10x farther making a good impression than his constant obnoxious and aggressive attempts to get back in to VPF. he's been told this by bob and other fairly neutral parties over and over again and he still refuses to listen and understand.

furthermore, despite the best intentions you can't force people to change. whenever we work with a difficult member we always hope that we can encourage them through either diplomacy or the D/A system to alter their behavior enough to fit in, but if they refuse to change then it's not our problem. the staff here spent 10x more effort than should ever have been spent on shockman, and he's no longer our problem. we owe him absolutely nothing, it's 100% clear that we did the right thing for the community, and frankly i want my wasted time back.

until the day he realises that he's the source of his own problems in the VP scene, then nothing has changed.

feel free to reprint this post at PN- i doubt it will do any good, but at least it will be clear that another staffer replied to your idea.

Can this pinhead be removed.....?

 

[elton]

The VPFF days are gone for good methinks. Times change Jon.

 

[JonPurpleHaze]

Can this pinhead be removed.....?

Times change everywhere but vpf, i think....

 

[Shockman]

I could lie and say that they did something that they did not and they would be here posting that I lie about everything, I know, I have tested that, but, tell the truth, like, every single item on that list up there, and the few added by members here, and you are left to wonder about it.

"What is said at other sites has no impact on or at VPF."

"You agreed to be put on probation, as a term to have your voluntary R/O status lifted, like lio said you could at any time." You guys know me. Do you believe that one too?

I agree that nicolas.b should be removed. He is the admin. In truth, I think he should step down. Now that is the kind of thing that will be said at other sites but used only to keep me down at VPF.

Thanks Jon. Even though I am confined to the junkyard, even for my release threads (it WOULD be moved here) It's still an otherwise fair, and fun place you have here.

Thank's also for trying to help me at VPF Jon. It did good Jon, It did. If it was professional people we were talking about, it would have worked.

 

[Shockman]

if the guy could just sit down, shut up, and prove himself to be a productive member of the community for a few months it would go 10x farther making a good impression

Would that go farther than you saying "so be it" nic? Would that go farther than you saying "if you say it's a bit clearer, then we can talk"? Really? Why?

 

[Shockman]

this thread is rough for me to watch because pretty-much everyone who's posted so far is a net friend of mine. and i really wish this thread hadn't have veered onto the issue of the 2nd staff, but as long as it has:

> Don't make me laugh Kinsey.... here's the reality check for you: the
> "staff" that you were part of was an utter embarrassment.
> That staff basically divided the community in two....and it took
> years to get it back on track.

you might be surprised, kristian.

the first thing i did when i joined the staff around a year ago was to dive into the staff threads. i started reading them like i was a 12-year old devouring my very first encylopedia set. after years and years of speculation it was fascinating to see what really happened behind the scenes. and i must admit that one of the reasons i was on such a mission was because i was looking for a few villains- people who had abused their staff privileges and caused great harm to the scene back in late 2002-early 2003. i wanted to know once and for all who had caused the greatest harm to this scene so i could compare it against the likely suspects myself and others had speculated about for years.

but the funny thing is, the more i read the more ambivalent i became. as i read their posts i sank into these people's shoes and thought "yea, i can see why they thought this and said that and made such-and-such decision." it occured to me that these were ordinary people, just fellow pinball players volunteering and trying their best to deal with some very trying circumstances. when nicky special and later pacdude hit the scene with their powerful personalities, nobody that i could see, member or staffer, really knew how to deal with them from an even-handed perspective. for 99% of people it was basically either love or hate them, so to speak, and both of those people challenged everyone to think of the whole VP scene in far more complex terms than they were ready to at the time. because back in 2001-2002 it seemed simple and straightforward that VP was a revolutionary and free product (literally a godsend) and that anyone who loved pinball would contribute harmoniously to it's development in whatever way they could. it was a feel-good time of exciting breakthroughs, but as we can see in hindsight that was a naive way of framing things, even though i bet 99% of us felt that way at the time.

but i digress. so back to my process of reading the staff threads...

as for the staffers, i concluded that a couple of them lacked patience and lacked the natural qualities to capably perform forum moderation duties well. in a perfect world they probably shouldn't have been 'hired', but at the time it was all an amateur project anyway, starting at the top with AJ who hosts this forum to randy who coded the collection of routines that turned into VP that later became allied with the WPCMAME project. so from the top to the bottom it was pretty-much complete amateurs at this kind of thing, which we still feel the effects of today i should add. and webforums were still a new phenomenom- not even longtime BBS veterans such as myself and others probably realised the full implications of how webforums were going to work and the complications they were going to create. and furthermore there was no official site for VP other than randydavis.com and perhaps pinmame.com. VPF never was the official forums for VP, and the only reason it's perceived that way is because of the traffic. and because of that same traffic, VPF has become the place where randy has felt comfortable posting his (occasional) updates as well as the ultrapin folks posting theirs. but this place is only still here because of the traffic, and at the time back in 2002 nobody knew what the future would hold and knew whether this place would still be around in a year's time, much less four years time. so my point is, everyone from top to bottom to those in-between were all amateur participants in this scene. and i think it's good to remember that. at least if this whole operation was professional then you could point to people you you thought scewed up the scene and say "they took the money and what's worse, did great damage."

again i digress, so getting back to those staff threads i was reading...

in the end i thought there were a couple of people who didn't belong on staff. not malicious people- they simply didn't belong on staff. as for the rest, i think they made a few mistakes along the way and i don't doubt that those mistakes pissed off and inconvenienced other people. i was one of those people in fact. at the time i became angry and outraged. but in all fairness i see our current staff as having regularly made mistakes since the day we got on board. a couple people are feeling angry and outraged at us, including shockman who is the indirect subject of this thread. shockman posts almost every day at PN about the injustices we've done him and how we've lied to him and spoiled VP for him and so forth. and make no mistake, that sits badly with me. i feel like if i had handled things differently then i could have appeased shockman and a couple other people. i second-guess myself all the time and imagine that if i had only unlocked the puzzle and said the right words at the right time we could all be cohabitating peacefully and harmoniously right here at VPF and threads like this need never have been started. and yet for all my idealism and all my insecurity the age-old fact "you can't please everyone" has slapped me in the face again and again. whether it's my fellow staffers who get pissed at me for being too leniant or too hard on someone, to regular members who feel the same, to people we've come down hard on as a staff who naturally feel that VPF is a fascist dictatorship who's out to get them, there is always someone, somewhere who is going to be pissed at me personally, at us as a staff, at a bloc of users who was against them, or just at the whole damn site or the whole damn scene. our society does not really value wise men and wise sayings anymore, but somewhere out there exists a wise old man saying the wise old saying "it's inevitable" and if only i had paid attention to him i wouldn't have to torture myself with what-ifs.

but for the last time , let me get back to the staff threads i was reading...

about kinsey specifically, despite all the slings and arrows she took, she was one of the people whose work behind the scenes impressed me. she was the one who came up with the staff process and record-keeping, something that continues to this day. she learned a lot about how the site works and is still a useful resource when we admins need help with something. in thread-after-thread i saw her initiate site issues and lead the staff towards productive resolutions. yes "productive resolutions" sounds like corporate-speak, but i saw it happen again and again and the end result was to improve the site. and to be fair i also know that kinsey made some mistakes. there was no need to read staff threads to determine that- it was clear from public statements. but i'd like to stress that overall, i thought she was a very good staffperson who did a lot to improve the way VPF worked. and i wish i could take you all on a tour of her staff threads to point this out and the fact that i thought she did very well, but unfortunately there's probably no way to easily do that, so all i can communicate is my impression. hope you can trust me on that, at least somewhat.


> Apocalypse and others did their best
> to get rid of the bozos....and restore
> at least some kind of sense and
> lunacy here.

i agree- apoc and destruk and later loaf who i thought was the 'great communicator'. in fact if loaf was ready to return full-time right now i would gladly hand him my status as "head of the staff". unlike most of us he has the training and experience to deal with conflict resolution which the rest of us just have to figure out as we go along. yea, that's a lot of sickening hero worship, but i happen to believe it.

anyway, personally i'll just interject that i thought you (kristian) and bob did not deserve to be banned or RO'd as the case may be and i still resent the fact that those things happened for what i thought were such trivial reasons. i'm glad i founded the semi-private VPFL group at the time because i saw injustice being done and that i had to do my best to remedy it. and yet in the end reading those staff threads, i sort of understand why those things happened at the time. i don't agree with the actions but i can understand the stress. and i believe the stress produced some frustrated individuals who did what they thought they had to do in order to protect the site, as petty as that might sound. but bottom line i was very pleased when you were both allowed back into this site. if not i would prolly still be angry.

i guess the last thing i'd like to say is that i really resent the fact that various people have been villified in this scene. in other words, the idea of certain users or staff-members who screwed things up for everyone. personally i can count on one hand the number of people who i thought came into this scene to mess with it and bring it down. just about everyone else i know and have seen is here because they enjoy pinball, VP, and the scene and want the best for all three. being silly humans they have different, sometimes violently different, ideas about what is best for these three things, but i believe their intentions are decent. so i ask you to respect that and to take the frustrations you have with other people in this scene with a grain of salt for that reason.

i believe nobody here is a monster, each person deserves their dignity, and that people could find better ways to express their displeasure with each other than by slamming them publically.

thank you for reading this long-ass post,
nic

Just saving this for after work.

 

[rpbizzle47]

I've been trying to get them to let you back at VPF. I really wish you could return to VPF Shockman and also wish you'd let the past go. Yesterday is GONE.

 

[Shockman]

Thanks Ron. They were saying they were going to let me back, and I have no reason to think they won't. There was nothing about waiting months when nic. had me go fetch that post of his, there was nothing about it when Peter said I could get an alt and post. They are either ready to let me back or they are just tormenting me because they can't let the past go. If they did that to me just to fuck with me and with no intention of doing what they said, especally nic with his making me go get his post and quote it, then they are very low lives indeed, and I don't believe that, I think I'm back, just need to lift that IP ban now is all that's left. The alt (MAMEber) was blown to convey my condolences to Landers family. Darby was Peter's Idea and the first alt. and done with permission in black and white. I'm going to address some things that nicolas.b said above after I wind down.

Thanks for you support Ron. About the past, I have already said that I would not bring it up again there if they would be so kind as to keep their word.

I can forgive nicola.b for making me fetch his damn post like a fucking dog, and comment on it if he was going to keep his word. This has nothing to do with the past staff, of past stuff. nor does any of those other things they said that was to make me believe that I was back in.

I'm writing AJ (snail mail) also, and have confidence that it is just a short time till this is fixed. We have proved it's possible and going to happen. Do I need to repeat why? Because they said so to me, a number of times. When they are done having their fun with me I see no reason why I would not just default to back in, after all how many times can they tell me I can come back and post without believing it themselves?

Nothing long here, just thanks to Ron, and Jon, and 'Oz for your help and understanding.

I need a break tonight though, but have many points to address to a post that nicolas.b posted at VPF.

forcefully asking for the D/As a past staff handed out is not holding to the past Ron, It's an attempt to get past the past. Don't you think?

Thanks again.

 

[Shockman]

in the end i thought there were a couple of people who didn't belong on staff. not malicious people- they simply didn't belong on staff. as for the rest, i think they made a few mistakes along the way and i don't doubt that those mistakes pissed off and inconvenienced other people. i was one of those people in fact. at the time i became angry and outraged. but in all fairness i see our current staff as having regularly made mistakes since the day we got on board. a couple people are feeling angry and outraged at us, including shockman who is the indirect subject of this thread. shockman posts almost every day at PN about the injustices we've done him and how we've lied to him and spoiled VP for him and so forth. and make no mistake, that sits badly with me. i feel like if i had handled things differently then i could have appeased shockman and a couple other people. i second-guess myself all the time and imagine that if i had only unlocked the puzzle and said the right words at the right time we could all be cohabitating peacefully and harmoniously right here at VPF and threads like this need never have been started. and yet for all my idealism and all my insecurity the age-old fact "you can't please everyone" has slapped me in the face again and again. whether it's my fellow staffers who get pissed at me for being too leniant or too hard on someone, to regular members who feel the same, to people we've come down hard on as a staff who naturally feel that VPF is a fascist dictatorship who's out to get them, there is always someone, somewhere who is going to be pissed at me personally, at us as a staff, at a bloc of users who was against them, or just at the whole damn site or the whole damn scene. our society does not really value wise men and wise sayings anymore, but somewhere out there exists a wise old man saying the wise old saying "it's inevitable" and if only i had paid attention to him i wouldn't have to torture myself with what-ifs.

You would really take advantage like that nicolas.b? If I can't answer you there, how can you say that there? I believe the struggle you mention.

Mistakes are no big deal. Never was. It's not mistakes that have you troubled nic. What do you normally do when you make a mistake? What would you always do if you made a mistake that pissed off someone that you like? You fix the fucking thing nic, not write a term paper using it as an excuse. I never had a problem with mistakes. I had a problem with staffers refusing to fix their mistakes, and repeating their mistakes. You would kick someone out of a group that is not yours, because they make a mistake, lie to them about comming back, after you lie about what's going to happen, and support staffers that lie to me about comming back.

You are not fair nicolas.b.

The staff think they can write something and all their mistakes should be forgiven. So do I. The difference between you and me nic, is that I think the same should be true of members as well. What is it that make a staffer above the rules? above their own rules? I'm not angry this morning, I still am lied to I still am cheated, tricked, and set up, but I'm not angry at life, I'm not sick, I am not dangerous. Those things happened, I did not put that into my life, A vpf staff did. Be fair for one time in your staffer job nicolas.b. Don't say that mistakes were made by the staff, but the staff is still good, and worthy of being staffers. Unless you mean it of course, but how could you mean it when you don't feel the same about members? A staffs job is not to kick members down and then keep members down. The mistakes by the staff out number mine by a great deal and started a year and a half eariler than mine. I did not say anything about it or get involved.

You owe me nicolas.b. One membership at VPF restored as you promised me. Until you hand it over it is still mine, but stolen by you. Don't die a thief nic. they are the worse.

I have more to say on this but am out of time this morning.

 

[rpbizzle47]

forcefully asking for the D/As a past staff handed out is not holding to the past Ron, It's an attempt to get past the past. Don't you think?

I'll be glad when your membership is restored and you can once again be at peace within yourself. Your a good man Shock, keep your chin up dude.

 

[destruk]

forcefully asking for the D/As a past staff handed out is not holding to the past Ron, It's an attempt to get past the past. Don't you think?

I think technically that would have more to do with the present and future, for things that happened in the past - so ALL OF THE ABOVE! Astounding.

 

[Shockman]

Thanks Ron.

I don't know what to say any more.

nicolas.b, the Admin at VPF (Visual Pinball Forums) IS the liar and no one, not even his family can say to me that he is not. I'm tired of waiting. He needs to address his lies, and no body, not one person, in all of these posts on the subject has said, or even implied that he did not or maybe did not lie to me a number of times. Do you think it may have been brought up, at least once, if there was one person that thought that he did not do that? Yeah, I think it would have been brought up too, if it even ringed of untruth. The fucker lied three times in order for him to stay at VPF and me not. Peter lied twice in order for him to stay at VPF and not me.

To me nicolas.b, the Admin. of VPF is nothing but a liar, because I can't remember him ever telling me anything that was true. Not in the last 7 months anyway. I should list ALL the things he has said to me, and I should do it here and now. I wonder if he is anything more to his family than a God damned liar? I sure hope so. I'd like to think I am the only person he says nothing but lies to.

Astounding, aint it Destruk?

 

[Shockman]

I have given up on VPF. They WILL die liars and with what is mine. I am going to sell tables with roms on e-bay now, but each one is going to be a mod., and better than the originals and locked. It will be the best package with the fewest tables at the highest price and there is nothing that anyone can do about it because no one will own anything I sell.

 

[rpbizzle47]

I have given up on VPF. They WILL die liars and with what is mine. I am going to sell tables with roms on e-bay now, but each one is going to be a mod., and better than the originals and locked. It will be the best package with the fewest tables at the highest price and there is nothing that anyone can do about it because no one will own anything I sell.

Hea. Wait a sec.....Do I get a discount?! :)