Shhh, don't disturb the quiet

[tiltjlp]

Recetly vpf has calmed down, so much so that Yogi started a thread over there, in the hopes of enlivening things a bit. Some folks blamed the quiet on a lack of table releases, or that school had started up again. Others blamed real life, cooler weather, all sorts of things.

Well, I doubt any of those factors are the reason vpf has become down right boring. There can only be two possibilities, as I see it. Either we have all become boring all at once, which is unlikely, or the vpf staff has done too good a job. It seems to me that they have tightened the enforcement of rules so much so that everyone has stopped posting anything personally directed at anyone else that isn't 100% user friendly.

Sure, sometimes things do get out of control, and hands need to be slapped, even D/As have to be handed out. I'm not saying that the rules shouldn't be enforced, although I don't agree with AJ's decision that they don't HAVE to be applied equally. What I am saying is that maybe the vpf staff needs to lighten up, and not be so worried that every personal comment will start a flame war or argument or debate. To a degree, all of those things help add some spice and character to vpf.

I'm not raising hell, as I've been accused of, I'm simply thinking out loud. Do you agree that vpf has become boring the past few weeks? What can be done to liven things up again at vpf? Do you think the rules are enforced a bit too much, or is everything fine and dandy? Now before you suggest that I don't have a right to say these sorts of things about vpf, I ask why not? I'm a member of vpf, which is our main VP site. I also have recently gotten a D/A, but even worse, I think, is that I was asked to edit a post of mine after one vpf staffer had cautioned me about it, but didn't ask me to edit it. So what do you think?

John

 

[Pop Bumper Pete]

since we started 8 weeks ago it had been open season on the staff
As you well know, some people were not even willing to give us a chance, right off the bat, some members were saying that we would be the end of VPF

people pushed and pushed, and we did not go slapping around D/A's

Finally we said 'enough', members chose not to listen, and continued to act in a childish manner, so a grand total of 2 (two) D/A's were handed out


I don't know about the rest of you, but I come to VPF to talk about PINBALL
not to rake over 3,4,5 year old issues, that are so cold, only those with no personal life would want to rake over them

TMFP

 

[Shockman]

Is it your opinion, TMFP, that another forum should pop up? Maybe a "VPF members off (VP) topic Forum"? Most of the others VP is the main topic too.
I'm not trying to be mean, just some of us has known each other a long time, and there is more to life than a computer game.
Yes, it is boring.

 

[kristian]

It's all going to hell guys... What did I told you...

 

[tiltjlp]

It's all going to hell guys... What did I told you...

And it's all Kristian's fault. But being serious, do you think there is a reason that vpf has become so quiet, or is it just the usual ebb and flow? And TMFP, I felt that people taking pot shots at the new staff was wrong, especially Kabuki Jo, who had been a staffer himself.

There may have only been two D/As given out, but how many members were sent PMs asking them to edit their posts? I was, and after another staffer had not edited my post, simply asked me to back off, which I did. Of course everything is subjuctive, and I was told someone had reported my post. But are reported posts looked at from both sides, to see if the reporting member has an axe to grind? And does the staffer make his own decision, or just react to the report?

Although I'm against posts being edited or deleted, since editing of posts is a possibility at vpf, I feel staff should go ahead and make the edits, since asking a member to edit their own post isn't really asking. If I had refused to edit my post, I wonder what would have happened. Would the staffer had edited it over my refusal? And would my refusal resulted in a D/A for me? I'm not complaining, simply wondering how that would have been handled. Asking gives a person a choice, where requiring seems a bit strange, which is why I think the staffer should have done the editing himself.

John

 

[kristian]

Basically, I don't care. I don't anything about what happened lately... That place was never fun, it's like a church... it has always been... no matter who's the admin this month... It's not anyone's fault, really...

Now it's almost 100% about pinball and I guess that's what people want... AJ's "family friendly" rules have always been nothing but a joke... most forums have posts of naked (or at least semi-naked) chicks and funny, tasteless pictures every now and then to keep the atmosphere relaxed... The stupid Mr. Bean picture I posted would probably have been deleted from VPF as "offensive"... VPF is just as lively as housewives' knitting forum.

VP is stale. We have the same 20 members who have been active for years... Rob was the first new VPM author in years but he got gangbanged pretty soon... haven't seen him anymore, either... I don't know who's to blame but I've given up caring about it... it's hopeless... old problems or not - there's irreversible damage done long time ago...

I stopped giving a shit quite a while back already... I still love playing the tables though, I always did... I just basically download PD's tables and go, lol...

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

john, you're babbling. if there was something which you didn't like about the recent reported post process then say it directly. you can name me, that's fine.

what are you so unhappy about? what can i do to make you feel better?

 

[tiltjlp]

john, you're babbling. if there was something which you didn't like about the recent reported post process then say it directly. you can name me, that's fine.

what are you so unhappy about? what can i do to make you feel better?

Nic, I'm not babbling, I'm trying to get a discussion going, and get other peoples opinions about why vpf seems so lifeless. And just maybe Kristian hit upon the major problem, there simply aren't enough active members. Kristian said 20, I'd say at least under 50. Sure vpf gets new memebers posting all the time, until they get VP and VPM installed and working, and then we seldom hear from them again. Personally I think that part of the problem is that for the most part, VP tables are ignored, as if VPM was the only game in town.

Sure, things get quiet here too, which is one reason I post these "think pieces", to hopefully get folks involved in discussions or even debates. Think of me kind of like a carnival side show barker, or a shill. Or call me a spin doctor if you will, part of my job as the front man for PN is to beat the drum and get folks to notice the ruckus here, and to get involved. In some ways it's like being back on the debate team in school. It's less important which side I take, just so my arguments are noticed.

Yes nic, I wasn't thrilled with things were handled as far as that post I ended up editing, but it's not that big a deal. But like I said, why didn't you simply edit it yourself? And what would have happened if I had said No, I won't edit that post? But I'm not unhappy, and other than sending gobs of money, there's nothing you need to do to make me happy, other than realize I'm just trying to make things a bit more interesting around here.

As I've said several times before both here and at vpf, I think the current staff is doing a decent job. Probably all you folks need is a bit more experience to make sure you're all on the same page.

John

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

But like I said, why didn't you simply edit it yourself?

dunno.. i didn't feel any particular pressure to edit it myself. also, when the tables were turned and i was in your position the former staffs asked me to do the editting myself, so i felt like i should carry on precedent. was there any reason not to?

And what would have happened if I had said No, I won't edit that post?

then if it was serious enough i would have done so myself. or let you and the reporting person duke it out. what else did you have in mind? lol

Probably all you folks need is a bit more experience to make sure you're all on the same page.

agreed.

anyway, yea, sorry... you weren't babbling. and your reasoning makes sense to me. but a lot of the controversy/life came from people like PD and gottlieb's crew letting things fly- which would suck helpless users into feeling like they needed to comment/argue. without that impetus there's just not that much cause to argue, i guess.

plus VP is no longer young and full of promise and possibility- now it's kind of a dated piece of software straining along to handle people's needs. hard to get terribly excited about it.

 

[destruk]

Everything is old news. Even PacDude's tables, if you like them great, but we already have versions of those to play to satisfy curiosity.

 

[PacDude]

Well, let's see. If I let things fly (which some call skirting the rules), I'm an arrogant asshole. I know because Nicolas told me so. Yet if I don't let things fly, everyone's BORED. Well, what the fudge people? You can't have it both ways. :evil:

I think the real problem is some people have confused VPF for their social life and think they need to be entertained there in the forums. Maybe these people should make a VP table or something if they're so bored.

My tables are old news? I guess you could say ALL VPM tables are old news because the real tables existed LONG before the VP version. I mean if all I want to do is see the DMD animations, I can set up a test rig. I treat VPM tables as if I'm trying to make a definitive computer conversion (in a reasonable length of time), not just satisfy my curiosity about what happens when the ball rolls over X switch. I that's what I was after, a trip to Papa8 or some other show would be a lot simpler as I could play the real thing there (well I do that now too because it's fun).

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

Well, let's see. If I let things fly (which some call skirting the rules), I'm an arrogant asshole. I know because Nicolas told me so.

putting words into my mouth = no problem if it makes you happy. :D

 

[Pop Bumper Pete]

I also think that alot of the people who were not attacking or flaming have decided also to give the VP scene a miss

I do know of one member that felt that some attacks were so over the top that he felt it best to steer clear of the site

there is nothing wrong with a debate or two, but some people just don't know when to leave an (old) argument alone
we are not just losing people from VPF, we will lose them from the VP scene



shockman, no, I do not mean that we should only talk pinball, you can talk about your beer can collection if you want
but I feel that some members are just looking for oportunities to attack others or to suddenly become all self rightious


At least having you back was a good move :)

TMFP

 

[PacDude]

Ah, excuse me, Nicolas. I meant arrogant PRICK, not asshole. :fingers:

 

[Pop Bumper Pete]

that was me pacy

tmfp

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

"not that there's anything wrong with that."

 

[StevOz]

Well for me I just don't get it, hell I passed pre-school years ago, call me what you like, what's in a name, stick 'n' stones. As for family friendly, go on kristian post your pic at VPF, I won't edit it, though post it without pants on here at Nirvana and it will be deleted.

From what I know AJ basically wants to hand off VPF to anyone with the resources and patience to keep the place up and running. Mr Fixx was going to take over, though by deleting his own account, after being put on the spot he proved himself unworthy.

Heck I think you're all a lot of thin skinned pussies, remember VPFF, yeah you lot just cannot handle freedom of expression. You like the idea, though cannot deal with the reality of it. You see there is no happy medium either because then the admin is being bias, so just what the fuck do you want?

Damn insects.

 

[kristian]

I think we should permanently get rid of the admins vs. members stuff. It's old... we're too small of a community for that kind of stuff... I was in a bad mood yesterday... Nicolas, SteveOz... can't think of better admins... that's not a problem...

We need some new activity... maybe people are pissed because everything is so "stale"... we've been getting amazing table conversion after another... nothing is good enough for us anymore... there's a huge potential crowd of pinball players who have never heard of VP or emulation in general. We should somehow get those people involved and get some new blood there...

I was in a bad mood yesterday... of course I care about this community... It's just depressing to see those same problems pop up every 4 weeks... or maybe we should just get used to it...

 

[StevOz]

Something like this perhaps kristian?

http://www.petes-emulation.com/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=14



What are you doing then?

 

[destruk]

I just get so worn down with the constant stupidity I don't bother answering questions much anymore. Newbie, or long-standing member who is too damn lazy to check the table list at AJ's, asking if such and such table is available for download, people trying to run high-end processor intensive games on a machine they have no clue about what it has or can do...etc. Kinda funny when they think just because it says so many Ghz, it will run anything they throw at it, when it compares to something too slow to handle the system. Maybe I'm too old to have the patience anymore. There's the search feature, use it. And with definitive table versions available, there isn't any point to redoing anything.

 

[StevOz]

Worn down by the constant stupidity?

Ya got the wrong 'tude there dude.....Come on, it's all so friggin' funny, from when a wake till when I sleep. Yeah Pangier, Al's garage Band, funny as fuck. LOL.

No point in redoing stuff, then try an original, FFS.

Pot kettle, black, I love ya Brian, but honestly sometimes you try too hard IMO, though perhaps I'm just being stupid?

 

[destruk]

Yeah Stevoz, I only cause problems anymore when I open my mouth, so I try to refrain from typing anything.

 

[StevOz]

Ah hahahahaha......only cause problems, Brian?

WTF are you on, can I have some?

btw I am being stupid...

Look destruk, just be you, damn your good IMO, better then most and most certainly as far as the scene goes I'd rate ya #1, I shit you not, then again perhaps I do, but that's just me being me.

 

[kristian]

Destruk, where can I donwload some ROMZ?

 

[tiltjlp]

I just get so worn down with the constant stupidity I don't bother answering questions much anymore. Newbie, or long-standing member who is too damn lazy to check the table list at AJ's, asking if such and such table is available for download, people trying to run high-end processor intensive games on a machine they have no clue about what it has or can do...etc. Kinda funny when they think just because it says so many Ghz, it will run anything they throw at it, when it compares to something too slow to handle the system. Maybe I'm too old to have the patience anymore. There's the search feature, use it. And with definitive table versions available, there isn't any point to redoing anything.

If it were possible, I'd trade ages with you youngster. I don't think it's so much age as it is knowledge and experience. But I agree that newbies should have enough sense to realize that nearly every imaginable question has been asked and answered countless times. I make a game out of guessing what their question is, and if they make it sound like a matter of life and death.

The thing I've noticed is that as soon as these newbies get VP and VPM working, they start making a table, without having a clue what to do. So they ask How-To questions from start to finish, and most of them are never heard from again, nor are their tables ever released. Part of the enjoyment for me is slowly learning more as I go along. So wait another 25 years Brian, and you'll get your patience back, or at least I have.

All in all, I guess we're stuck with one another. A handful of authors and a few dozen or so loyal members. Maybe we've weathered so many storms in the past that the nit-picky stuff that has happened lately can't fully wake us from our slumber.

John