VP is Flawed - FP is far superior technology

[Pop Bumper Pete]

Noah, my advice still stands
Stop taking this so seriously

Bob is the type of guy that will undo the top of the salt shaker, put a dead fish under your desk, or poop in a paperbag light it and put it on your doorstep

He enjoys poking people who take issues to seriously

After the years of reading D Foleys posts, most people would take a sceptical view of anything he said

 

[Noah Fentz]

I know, Pete, but I believe everyone is entitled to an explanation. So, there it is.

:)

 

[Pop Bumper Pete]

Oh yeah, Noah, you are falling into another trap
Why would ShockBob join/ post your forum, when he now knows he can post here and you will respond

 

[Noah Fentz]

LOL @ ShockBob!

Hey, I am still an active member here! You think I'm going to let you all have the kind of fun only PN can offer? Pure unadulterated, uncensored FUN?!?!

Hell no, wouldn't miss it for anything!

 

[bob]

ok apology accepted but please don't blame it on senility! You are too eloquent to blame it all on being senile! a dark and wicked sense of humour possibly...

It's Ok, eventually I'll grow on you.... Like a tumor.

My humor can be rather insulting, but I try to spread it around, so everyone can enjoy it.

I went to the doctor today complaining of draining and a feeling of fullness in my ear. After the examination, the conversation went something like this....

Doctor: Why Bob, I think you have a suppository in your ear.
Me: ?eh?
Doctor: Bob - You have a SUPPOSITORY in your EAR!
Me: ??EH??
Doctor: (shouting) --IN YOUR EAR! -- A SUPPOSITORY!!!
Me: OMG! Now I know where I put my hearing aid....

 

[bob]

OK Noah! I'm glad we had this talk, it's good to get this shit out in the open and I'm confident now that you just had a brain fart when you named your forum, but you had your heart in the right place. I can live with brain farts, as long as they don't stink too bad and in this case, your brain fart isn't as bad as AJ's brain farts, so I'll be over to register at the NEW VPForums and I will be calling it the NEW VPForums, because THAT'S it's NAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just don't ban faralos or I will really be pissed!

 

[Noah Fentz]

LOL...

It will be nice to see your smiling face, inciting riots, or whatever it is you do.

And I'll only ban faralos if he surpasses me in post count.

 

[Phoenixx]

I have and will make every attempt to provide everything the community needs to continue to grow and develop. That's my only motivation.

Yeah. Right.

BTW, since when did you become such a specialist on community needs? Was that brought on merely by renting some cheap webspace and taking somebody elses forumname? Great,...perhaps i should try that too sometime and see what it does for me! As a matter of fact, if AJ turns out to not bring VPF back online after all i might just open another VPForums only to annoy you and give you a dose of your own medicine. Now that ought to make for some real good fun,...dont you think!? What comes around goes around,...sometimes it just has to,...


So the name stays then, well, just as i thought. Didnt really have any doubt there, so it doesnt exactly come as a big surprise. And as for the 'all for the good of the community' charade, man, what a load of crap. I mean community? What about me? What about Bob? What of Nic and Anthias and all the others who have enough honor and decency left to rather quit than going along with your pathetic 'coup d'forume'? In case you forgot; we are community too you know, but you dont seem to be concerned in the slightest about whether or not i or any of them will be staying part of it any longer. Grow and Develop? Community needs? The only motivation? Paleeze! You are willing to sacrifice the most active members of the community only so you can conveniently build upon the merits that somebody else has earned for you! So who is supposed to believe one darn word of that crap!? Every attempt to provide everything? Pathetic, thats what it is, and best of all, the very man whose merits you frauds are standing on is now being (dis-)regarded as The Bad Guy, The Worthless One, The Sucker Who Did More Bad Than Good For The Community. In other words; A sorry POS who is owed nothing at all. Man, if i were you, i wouldnt know how i could look at myself in the mirror anymore as the very sight of me would make my stomach turn,...


But i tell you what; i dont care anymore if you change the name or not. I didnt set foot in that forum yet and thats exactly how its going to stay. As a matter of fact i might even go as far as to blacklist your address altogether just so i wont be thrown on it by accident. So much do i despise this place. Man i only hope AJ has enough sense to sue the living hell out of you once he can attend to this matter,...heck, i might even donate some money for a good lawyer,...

 

[LeeVanCleef]

Yeah. Right.

BTW, since when did you become such a specialist on community needs? Was that brought on merely by renting some cheap webspace and taking somebody elses forumname? Great,...perhaps i should try that too sometime and see what it does for me! As a matter of fact, if AJ turns out to not bring VPF back online after all i might just open another VPForums only to annoy you and give you a dose of your own medicine. Now that ought to make for some real good fun,...dont you think!? What comes around goes around,...sometimes it just has to,...


So the name stays then, well, just as i thought. Didnt really have any doubt there, so it doesnt exactly come as a big surprise. And as for the 'all for the good of the community' charade, man, what a load of crap. I mean community? What about me? What about Bob? What of Nic and Anthias and all the others who have enough honor and decency left to rather quit than going along with your pathetic 'coup d'forume'? In case you forgot; we are community too you know, but you dont seem to be concerned in the slightest about whether or not i or any of them will be staying part of it any longer. Grow and Develop? Community needs? The only motivation? Paleeze! You are willing to sacrifice the most active members of the community only so you can conveniently build upon the merits that somebody else has earned for you! So who is supposed to believe one darn word of that crap!? Every attempt to provide everything? Pathetic, thats what it is, and best of all, the very man whose merits you frauds are standing on is now being (dis-)regarded as The Bad Guy, The Worthless One, The Sucker Who Did More Bad Than Good For The Community. In other words; A sorry POS who is owed nothing at all. Man, if i were you, i wouldnt know how i could look at myself in the mirror anymore as the very sight of me would make my stomach turn,...


But i tell you what; i dont care anymore if you change the name or not. I didnt set foot in that forum yet and thats exactly how its going to stay. As a matter of fact i might even go as far as to blacklist your address altogether just so i wont be thrown on it by accident. So much do i despise this place. Man i only hope AJ has enough sense to sue the living hell out of you once he can attend to this matter,...heck, i might even donate some money for a good lawyer,...

It's only Pinball.
Really.
Seriously.

 

[destruk]

That does it. For discussions that get out of hand, come to my new forums. VPFORUMS.MIL

Bring ammo...

 

[destruk]

On a relevant note, I doubt very much VP is 'flawed' simply because it doesn't have a fully maneuverable camera and realtime 3d rendering. You are building a physical cabinet with a set perspective and angle. You move the cabinet and by laws of real world physics, the image of the game moves because you pushed it. What is a reason that would warrant the need for a builtin camera to move around and zoom in and rotate to special sections of the loaded game while you are playing the game? You don't want to make the image move too much or scroll or else players will be puking on the playfield glass. To learn the game rules? Use an AVI in the frontend before the table loads! oh wait, Ultrapin did something like that. But still, there is absolutely NO good reason for the functionality there. It is useless, bloat that serves no practical purpose.

I realize they are going to focus mainly on fixing Future Pinball, because at the moment it is more flawed than VP. And I realize they have a vested interest in making FP as good as they possibly can. But the pot calling the kettle black isn't exactly the best way to garner the most support over the long term. If anything, both programs are still an absolutely horrible excuse for a game of pinball compared to the real thing. And I don't see the reasoning behind the comment about Nanotech Entertainment being the world's only supplier of pinball games, feeding massive unimaginable levels of demand. If Stern is dying, there isn't enough demand to sell a $4000 real pinball game - what makes them think there is enough demand to sell a $6000 or $13000 'second best substitute imaginary pinball machine' , even if it comes with BOTH VP and Future Pinball and all the bells and whistles and accessories and 1000's of free games?

I'm not saying don't do it, just tone down the doom factor of stern dying, tone down the 'total drop of support' for the older product Visual Pinball, lower the expectations of the upcoming superadvanced master Future Pinball software, or you'll risk falling flat on your face when it comes for sale and people are disappointed over flipper lag or other intuitive oversights... Good luck and I wish you the best there.

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

Those are David Foley's words in an interview by Noah Fence. Excerpt below....

thanks for the excerpt! one thing i'm not clear on is whether nanotech added in all the physics improvements that ultrapin developed for their cabinets.


@paul (noah),
you do seem like a very decent, honorable guy and i appreciate all your hard work and dedication on this, but, two questions--

after listening to some of our objections and entertaining the site name change to something unique instead of "vpforums", what made you decide to disagree with us?

you do realise that if AJ gets back on his feet and resumes VPF, your choice of names is going to be more than merely awkward, it's going to be a pain in the ass in terms of confusion... don't you?


@tom (VC),
if something happens to paul and he disappears like AJ, do you have the keys to the site, allowing you to carry it on? and is there any other backup person?

imagine having to go through this all over again in a couple years, with people debating whether some guy named "nunt aken" is being respectful in starting a new forums called "vpforums.info"...

...

sorry if these questions seem offensive but i always prefer to take care of business before pleasure.

 

[kristian]

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

thanks for all your contributions replaying old internet memes, kristian.

when does your new gameshow start? :)

 

[Phoenixx]

after listening to some of our objections and entertaining the site name change to something unique instead of "vpforums", what made you decide to disagree with us?

There is only one plausible explanation. If it were really 'just a name' he would have taken a different one in the 1st place,...


Why do i think this? Three main reasons:

1.) Choosing VPForums in the 1st place. (Which is a bad idea for many dead-obvious reasons and he is smart enough to realize that.)

2.) Getting the two most common domains after dot com so nobody else can grab the remaining one for themselves. (Which clearly indicates a 'Seize and Secure' operation since nobody needs 2 fucking domains for one forum unless they persue a certain strategy.)

3.) Refusing to change the name even if this means loosing some of the most active members. (Which means the name is more important than the members, (and in some cases their contributions), which makes any further comments practically obsolete.)


But, i will try to be fair. Tell me only one, i repeat, only one other plausible and comprehensible reason that is not merely a justification for what has already taken place and i will take everything back. That means what i want, is that you convince me, not by excuses, but by giving me a simple replicable reason, why it has been necessary and ineluctable to use this name in the 1st place, and, in the further course, to hold on to it, even when it became clear that not everyone is happy with this, and even if it means loosing long time contributing members like myself, and others.

Personally i cant think of one darn reason but im looking forward to the answer anyway,...

 

[TheMcD]

*cue ultra-dramatic music and drumroll*

God, I don't even know why I'm still thinking about this. This is one of the greatest Mongolian Clusterfucks I've ever seen. Now I haven't seen a lot yet, but this sets the bar quite high. And to think that this all came out of one simple action....

The McD

 

[Mr. Pacman]

On a relevant note, I doubt very much VP is 'flawed' simply because it doesn't have a fully maneuverable camera and realtime 3d rendering. You are building a physical cabinet with a set perspective and angle. You move the cabinet and by laws of real world physics, the image of the game moves because you pushed it. What is a reason that would warrant the need for a builtin camera to move around and zoom in and rotate to special sections of the loaded game while you are playing the game? You don't want to make the image move too much or scroll or else players will be puking on the playfield glass. To learn the game rules? Use an AVI in the frontend before the table loads! oh wait, Ultrapin did something like that. But still, there is absolutely NO good reason for the functionality there. It is useless, bloat that serves no practical purpose.

I realize they are going to focus mainly on fixing Future Pinball, because at the moment it is more flawed than VP. And I realize they have a vested interest in making FP as good as they possibly can. But the pot calling the kettle black isn't exactly the best way to garner the most support over the long term. If anything, both programs are still an absolutely horrible excuse for a game of pinball compared to the real thing. And I don't see the reasoning behind the comment about Nanotech Entertainment being the world's only supplier of pinball games, feeding massive unimaginable levels of demand. If Stern is dying, there isn't enough demand to sell a $4000 real pinball game - what makes them think there is enough demand to sell a $6000 or $13000 'second best substitute imaginary pinball machine' , even if it comes with BOTH VP and Future Pinball and all the bells and whistles and accessories and 1000's of free games?

I'm not saying don't do it, just tone down the doom factor of stern dying, tone down the 'total drop of support' for the older product Visual Pinball, lower the expectations of the upcoming superadvanced master Future Pinball software, or you'll risk falling flat on your face when it comes for sale and people are disappointed over flipper lag or other intuitive oversights... Good luck and I wish you the best there.

...where is that "thank you" button? Anyway...Thank You!

Edit: I found it!

 

[1234fd]

I think it was because I identified the community as VPForums, not the domain. It's like when you move. You still call it home.
I wanted the place to be what it should be, not what we were seemingly stuck with.

That should close the discussion about why VpForums.org.

VPForums are VpForums, aren´t they?

 

[1234fd]

OK Noah! I'm glad we had this talk, it's good to get this shit out in the open and I'm confident now that you just had a brain fart when you named your forum, but you had your heart in the right place. I can live with brain farts, as long as they don't stink too bad and in this case, your brain fart isn't as bad as AJ's brain farts, so I'll be over to register at the NEW VPForums and I will be calling it the NEW VPForums, because THAT'S it's NAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just don't ban faralos or I will really be pissed!

Note to all pinball people in whatever site,link or pinball meeting or forum

The world of Pinball would not be what it is without BoB5453!
We love you BoB.You have one problem:your heart´s too big (& your mouth sometimes too)

 

[spalmer]

That does it. For discussions that get out of hand, come to my new forums. VPFORUMS.MIL

Bring ammo...

 

[ValamirCleaver]

@tom (VC), if something happens to paul and he disappears like AJ, do you have the keys to the site, allowing you to carry it on? and is there any other backup person?

Yes, I do have "the keys to the site", Nic; I'm more than just a staff member. There are also 2 other coders in addition to Paul, McD and myself.

imagine having to go through this all over again in a couple years, with people debating whether some guy named "nunt aken" is being respectful in starting a new forums called "vpforums.info"...

I was thinking it'd probably be some guy named "nun yurz",... ...but I suppose we'll all have to wait and see what comes to pass...

sorry if these questions seem offensive but i always prefer to take care of business before pleasure.

Paul and I have no problem answering sincere direct questions...

one thing i'm not clear on is whether nanotech added in all the physics improvements that ultrapin developed for their cabinets.

If one wishes to directly address these type of concerns to David Foley, all one has to do is post in the relevant thread at VPForums.org. It shouldn't be difficult for one who is already registered there...


uker: Kristian, that's extremely scarey! I didn't need to know that you like Pomeranians that much...

 

[Noah Fentz]

@paul (noah),
you do seem like a very decent, honorable guy and i appreciate all your hard work and dedication on this, but, two questions--

after listening to some of our objections and entertaining the site name change to something unique instead of "vpforums", what made you decide to disagree with us?

I didn't disagree with you at all. In fact, I was in the "deciding on a new name" stage when Dave uploaded VP9. With over 200 downloads of VP 9 in the first day with vpforums.org as the support site, it was simply too late to turn back.

you do realise that if AJ gets back on his feet and resumes VPF, your choice of names is going to be more than merely awkward, it's going to be a pain in the ass in terms of confusion... don't you?

It may be awkward, but I'd like to think it's nothing we can't get past. It's obvious we're not AJ's.

... convince me, not by excuses, but by giving me a simple replicable reason, why it has been necessary and ineluctable to use this name in the 1st place, and, in the further course, to hold on to it, even when it became clear that not everyone is happy with this, and even if it means loosing long time contributing members like myself, and others...

Phoenixx, I have never given you excuses, only reasons to explain what motivated me. I feel, at this point, it is an impossible task to change your perception of what happened. Just go over my responses to Bob's questions, if you're still not convinced. That's the best I can do.

 

[marv75]

No way VP rules! :) Well at least that's my honest opinion. :)

 

[panootz]

I really don't think AJ is coming back. He is gone, and vpforums felt like it was my home since i started in 2006, and now it's gone and i miss the name. Then when noah and Valamir came up with the same name i feel like i'm home again so i think you should let bygons be bygons and just stop whining and come on over and enjoy the ride OK. Dave P.

 

[panootz]

I love having 3 sites this way their more to do and see. I like JP and Groni's too.