BAM Physics/XML About physics ......For a better gameplay!

[GeorgeH]

actually, there would be a way...
1) create 2 DF "subs" one with strong omega, the other with medium omega
2) with "xbam ball position", we can tell where the ball is
3) if the ball is in an enclosed area between A to B....called the "sub" DF omega medium
4) if the ball is in an enclosed area between B to C....called the "sub" DF omega strong


but it would take someone who could do it and say if it is possible in this way

I set TZ up so the end user can switch between the Gimli/George flippers and Shiva flippers so switching between the 2 subs can be done. The trick would be to figure out the criteria to make the switch between the 2 subs work seamlessly. The contact points on a flipper run from 0 to 1.2. So you might be able to run sub A on contact points of 0 to 0.3 and 0.9 to 1.2. Then run sub B when the contact point is 0.3 to 0.9. The problem is the table probably won't play very well; in fact, I am almost sure of it. The end user will probably (in fact very likely) be able to see a difference in performance of the ball when the 2 subs switch. It would probably feel a little strange and unnatural so I don't recommend this.

I would say you are better off improving the performance of the ramps as I described earlier.

 

[Paolo]

Where the ball is is not enough because you always hit the ball on the flippers in lower playfield. You would need to guess where the ball goes so, it won't work, I think.

I can't help with that.

yes you are right .... I have not evaluated very well .... the real problem is how and when the ball goes into the upper play ..... since the fins are on the lower play .... it is a contradiction

 

[Paolo]

It would probably feel a little strange and unnatural so I don't recommend this.

it would be a solution, calculate the direction of the ball based on the contact points of the fins .... never thought about this .... but as I said above maybe it is really impossible.

 

[AnonTet]

You can't use contact point like that either.

The ball direction depends on where it hits the flipper, ballspeed, direction the ball is coming from and flipper angle and even how you press the button.

This is basically what separates VP form FP. You can only do so much for physics... shiva's code is nice but hard to port (for me).
and it is code you add to the table, code that the physics engine should be doing itself and as such, will never be as good (i hope i'm wrong)

 

[Paolo]

So it depends what you want to do Paolo?

that's not what I want Bob, but just looking for a better way to play, and using the fins in the most suitable way in certain situations or according to what kind of table "we" have in ours hands or that "we" are creating

It is not clear to me what the problem is ?

it's not a problem, I'm just proposing a concept

The ball seems slower in Version .329 ? It can't make it up ramps in the upper playfield ?

I thought that maybe 329 affects the physics of fp a bit, making it slower, but I'm referring to the gameplay, but I was wrong, George did some tests ..... no I don't have ramp problems, we talk about construction , and I always find a solution, if I have ramp problems ..... but this is not the core of my proposal or idea that I thought ... if it could be defined as such, my proposal or concept that I have exposed and just a theory..but it refers to the "dynamic flippers"

 

[Gimli]

@wild
In theory we can code the hell out of Dynamic Flippers

We can change the material properties of the flippers themselves (mass, friction, elasticity)
We can change physic function of the flippers (omega and angle)
We can hide the flippers and we can make them collidable or non collidable

And we can adjust any or all of these things based on a dizzying array of things ( contact point, Velocity of approaching ball, ball position)

And of course you can adjust these things based any game event you choose.
For instance you can increase the flipper omega only when a central target happens to be available...just to get that target

Or Whatever.

So the answer to question "can this be done with dynamic flippers" is always "YES" or at least probably.

But it might not look authentic or natural if we choke the flippers with excessive coding

 

[AnonTet]

Not to mention performance impact.

 

[Paolo]

In theory we can code the hell out of Dynamic Flippers

I repeat...DF= dynamic flippers

it is I really believed it, but if you understand what I have proposed it is impossible to do......

everything you said is phenomenal, and probably doable, but my idea, that is:

have two types of DF settings in the same table

I know, I'm crazy, Dragons Keep, these days it made me crazy, like no other table (not even batman), I probably uploaded a wrong version to PN, I was convinced that everything was ok, but instead the gameplay ( as Anontet ironically defined it, it was like armstrong on the moon) convincing me that there was a serious problem related to the version of bam329 ..... but as I said above I solved it.

ok as I told you before so two different types of DF configurations in the same table....... you will wonder what two types of configurations

how to explain above and that George understood (what satisfaction I felt) 1)a strong omega configuration
2)the other more moderate, less strong.

I made an example with some figures above, my concept should be clear, and why I proposed this idea ... crazy idea

 

[AnonTet]

I know, I'm crazy, Dragons Keep, these days it made me crazy, like no other table (not even batman), I probably uploaded a wrong version to PN, I was convinced that everything was ok, but instead the gameplay ( as Anontet ironically defined it, it was like armstrong on the moon) convincing me that there was a serious problem related to the version of bam329 ..... but as I said above I solved it.

I understand what you mean but others might read it differently.
If it had a problem (even more so if a serious one) i'm sure we'd have a v330 by now :)

 

[Gimli]

I repeat...DF= dynamic flippers

it is I really believed it, but if you understand what I have proposed it is impossible to do......

everything you said is phenomenal, and probably doable, but my idea, that is:

have two types of DF settings in the same table

Shiva has about 10 different "types" DF (Dynamic Flipper) settings in the same table

You are wanting to change Dynamic Flipper settings based on ball position coming rom 2 different areas of table (upper vs lower).
Of course you can do that

I know, I'm crazy, Dragons Keep, these days it made me crazy, like no other table (not even batman), I probably uploaded a wrong version to PN, I was convinced that everything was ok, but instead the gameplay ( as Anontet ironically defined it, it was like armstrong on the moon) convincing me that there was a serious problem related to the version of bam329 ..... but as I said above I solved it.

Great !

ok as I told you before so two different types of DF configurations in the same table....... you will wonder what two types of configurations

how to explain above and that George understood (what satisfaction I felt) 1)a strong omega configuration
2)the other more moderate, less strong.

yes I understand

I made an example with some figures above, my concept should be clear, and why I proposed this idea ... crazy idea

yes I understand
You want the weak dynamic flippers if the ball is low in the playfield
and you want strong dynamic flippers if the ball is high in the playfield ?

 

[Paolo]

I understand what you mean but others might read it differently.
If it had a problem (even more so if a serious one) i'm sure we'd have a v330 by now

in fact I said that I made an error of assessment, which George later confirmed, as he himself did some tests...
the sudden slowness that I perceived in DK, it was just my evaluation error .... after all, you too have noticed this on BS

 

[AnonTet]

in fact I said that I made an error of assessment, which George later confirmed, as he himself did some tests...
the sudden slowness that I perceived in DK, it was just my evaluation error .... after all, you too have noticed this on BS

I'm still scratching my head on that one! :)

 

[Gimli]

I'm still scratching my head on that one! :)

@wild
BS must be a table ?
but it means "bull shit" in English

 

[Gimli]

ah "Bally Spectrum "

 

[Paolo]

Shiva has about 10 different "types" DF (Dynamic Flipper) settings in the same table

You are wanting to change Dynamic Flipper settings based on ball position coming rom 2 different areas of table (upper vs lower).
Of course you can do that

Whatttttttt?????

yes I understand
You want the weak dynamic flippers if the ball is low in the playfield
and you want strong dynamic flippers if the ball is high in the playfield ?

Yesssss!!!!

Of course you can do that

but how ???? it seemed to me that it was not possible?
from the answers above, it was clear to me that this was not possible
and Shiva did it ???

I'm really crazy......

you can tell the fins for example, that if I have to hit this target which is in the upper playfield with omega 50


instead to this one found in lower playfield omega 35



CAN YOU DO THIS? AND WHAT SHIVA DID IT? DID I GET IT RIGHT?

 

[Paolo]

BS must be a table ?
but it means "bull shit" in English

Nooooo.......

ah "Bally Spectrum "

Yes,of course......we speak of slowness not of "bull shit"
a bad word is

 

[AnonTet]

Whatttttttt?????

Yesssss!!!!

but how ???? it seemed to me that it was not possible?
from the answers above, it was clear to me that this was not possible
and Shiva did it ???

I'm really crazy......

you can tell the fins for example, that if I have to hit this target which is in the upper playfield with omega 50


instead to this one found in lower playfield omega 35



CAN YOU DO THIS? AND WHAT SHIVA DID IT? DID I GET IT RIGHT?

No shiva's code does not do that. The flippers do not react depending on on the object that is going to be hit or distance of said object. But it allows for much more aiming control because of different forces used depending on the contact point and ball speed and flipper angle to simulate variable coil (EOS)... really neat stuff!

BUT, in jungle Girl you can find bits of code that avoid a faster bounce back from drop targets if I recall correctly. I only skimmed through it and do not make use of such feature. Not even sure how walls are used for that (or in shivaflippers(tm) to be honest) but he uses that. I'll leave that for you to find out :)

 

[Gimli]

Whatttttttt?????

Yesssss!!!!

but how ???? it seemed to me that it was not possible?
from the answers above, it was clear to me that this was not possible
and Shiva did it ???

I'm really crazy......

you can tell the fins for example, that if I have to hit this target which is in the upper playfield with omega 50
View attachment 18878

instead to this one found in lower playfield omega 35
View attachment 18879


CAN YOU DO THIS? AND WHAT SHIVA DID IT? DID I GET IT RIGHT?

No I am simply stating that what you are asking is just another variation on the same theme.

You want to accomplish a certain result (that is measurable) and so we code the "DF's" to try to accomplish that goal.....it is the same "B.S" but a different pile.

That's all I have been doing with BAM for the last 3 years

 

[Paolo]

I'm still scratching my head on that one!

but it is obvious that I am referring to Bally Spectrum .... BS ... we talked about it for hours in private .... how can you think that I say such a thing, that I do not even know ..... I sent you also a video as a comparison with DK, BS = Bally Spectrum DK = Dragon keep

it is not clear here (below in black), that I am talking about slowness, that george did some tests for me, it is not clear that I am talking about Dk that I have evaluated slow .... I have an answer to you, that we have been talking about slowness for a couple of days .... and you think I say you noticed "bull shit"......but with what criterion do you think of "bull shit"

in fact I said that I made an error of assessment, which George later confirmed, as he himself did some tests...
the sudden slowness that I perceived in DK, it was just my evaluation error .... after all, you too have noticed this on BS

 

[Paolo]

No I am simply stating that what you are asking is just another variation on the same theme.

You want to accomplish a certain result (that is measurable) and so we code the "DF's" to try to accomplish that goal.....it is the same "B.S" but a different pile.

That's all I have been doing with BAM for the last 3 years

ok,but it is not entirely clear to me ... here in black

yes I understand
You want the weak dynamic flippers if the ball is low in the playfield
and you want strong dynamic flippers if the ball is high in the playfield ?

you ask me this,ok

and I said yes

now....what do you answer me?

 

[AnonTet]

but it is obvious that I am referring to Bally Spectrum .... BS ... we talked about it for hours in private .... how can you think that I say such a thing, that I do not even know ..... I sent you also a video as a comparison with DK, BS = Bally Spectrum DK = Dragon keep

it is not clear here (below in black), that I am talking about slowness, that george did some tests for me, it is not clear that I am talking about Dk that I have evaluated slow .... I have an answer to you, that we have been talking about slowness for a couple of days .... and you think I say you noticed "bull shit"......but with what criterion do you think of "bull shit"

in fact I said that I made an error of assessment, which George later confirmed, as he himself did some tests...
the sudden slowness that I perceived in DK, it was just my evaluation error .... after all, you too have noticed this on BS

I'm scratching my head meaning I still don't know why the exaggerated slowness you showed me. I would never imagine it would be in slow motion!

I know you're talking about bally spectrum. It was clear to me even though there are some evil minds around here :D

 

[Gimli]

ok,but it is not entirely clear to me ... here in black

yes I understand
You want the weak dynamic flippers if the ball is low in the playfield
and you want strong dynamic flippers if the ball is high in the playfield ?

you ask me this,ok

and I said yes

now....what do you answer me?

Ok
Your picture I think you mean :
1. If ball is rolling towards the flippers and is coming from the upper playfield then use strong DFs


2. If ball is rolling towards flippers from lower play field then use weaker flippers

correct ?

The simplest way is just use y velocity

 

[Paolo]

2. If ball is rolling towards flippers from lower play field then use weaker flippers

yes....for you this should be easy ....

1. If ball is rolling towards the flippers and is coming from the upper playfield then use strong DFs

no.....this is where the whole discussion is concentrated, it is de impossible to do
you don't have to have the strong DF if the ball comes from the upper play ... no

let's say for example that the ball is in the lower play, ok ..... so for the effect of the hypothetical crazy code, you have the average DF at that moment (you're on lower play, right)

ok...now, I try to aim the target that is in upper play ... . here at this point of the situation I would like the strong DF but it is impossible for this to happen, because how does the fin that I am trying to aim at the target that is in upper play know? and consequently have a strong DF?
because at that moment you actually have the average DF ....the only way that could work is: don't touch any object in lower play .....
or have a fin that reads the future, of what I would like to hit.....excuse the comparison

 

[Gimli]

yes....for you this should be easy ....

no.....this is where the whole discussion is concentrated, it is de impossible to do
you don't have to have the strong DF if the ball comes from the upper play ... no

let's say for example that the ball is in the lower play, ok ..... so for the effect of the hypothetical crazy code, you have the average DF at that moment (you're on lower play, right)

ok...now, I try to aim the target that is in upper play ... . here at this point of the situation I would like the strong DF but it is impossible for this to happen, because how does the fin that I am trying to aim at the target that is in upper play know? and consequently have a strong DF?
because at that moment you actually have the average DF ....the only way that could work is: don't touch any object in lower play .....
or have a fin that reads the future, of what I would like to hit.....excuse the comparison

One way maybe to add a burst using the set velocity code if you hold the flipper a little longer

 

[Paolo]

I'm scratching my head meaning I still don't know why the exaggerated slowness you showed me. I would never imagine it would be in slow motion!

in that version there is the "slope" at 6.3.

I know you're talking about bally spectrum. It was clear to me even though there are some evil minds around here

ehhh.... there are several,and maybe I am the boss of them...they confuse me, they plagiarize me, they instigate me
to think crazy things......like this.