Stern WIP BAM FizX FP Avatar (Stern, 2010) WIP

[JLou5641]

keep all sotfness at 1.... even at 1, it not make a stiff surface ( that's the reason of glued ball i resolved with then kineticsensivty )
I made lot of test.. it have no influence on bouncing trajectoiries.. only how ball roll after hit.. wich is a non sens...
and with my test, this factor should be only between 0.9 and 1... FP don't take account more than 1

 

[GeorgeH]

keep all sotfness at 1.... even at 1, it not make a stiff surface ( that's the reason of glued ball i resolved with then kineticsensivty )
I made lot of test.. it have no influence on bouncing trajectoiries.. only how ball roll after hit.. wich is a non sens...
and with my test, this factor should be only between 0.9 and 1... FP don't take account more than 1

My initial impressions are that it plays well. When I work on a build, I like to get the physics established early so I can work out the kinks when I test other changes. So we will see how this change works out.

I might post my working copy here when I am finished with FizX and see what everyone thinks.

 

[GeorgeH]

I decided to ask what you guys think. The table had a T1 bumper base so I replaced it with the T1v3 and skirt. The bumper on Avatar is little unique. It has a ring that goes around it (probably built by Francisco666) and it lowers when hit. You can see it by itself on the left side of the screenshots below. The bumper without the ring looks rather plain in the center. The full bumper is on the right. The top screenshot shows the ball approaching and the second shows the ball hitting it. I have played it a bit and the ring doesn't seem to interfere with the operation of the bumper. I am thinking I will leave it but I I'd check with you guys to see what you think.

 

[Runner]

I think it's fine being the one on the right

 

[JLou5641]

The ring of bumper never interfere with the ball. Before, on the original bumper, the hit was made by the skirt and it was the skirt that push the ball with an flat hitbox just little over the PF.. this is why bumper was so weird.. because it pushed the ball from under
On the v3, i put the hit event that kick the ball on the existing bumper hitbox ( it's a cylinder which is tall as bumper and have same diameter as the base of bumper )... This is why now you need to use a separate skirt, and don't use the skirt from bumper.
if you need a new bumper model, i can do it

 

[GeorgeH]

The ring of bumper never interfere with the ball. Before, on the original bumper, the hit was made by the skirt and it was the skirt that push the ball with an flat hitbox just little over the PF.. this is why bumper was so weird.. because it pushed the ball from under
On the v3, i put the hit event that kick the ball on the existing bumper hitbox ( it's a cylinder which is tall as bumper and have same diameter as the base of bumper )... This is why now you need to use a separate skirt, and don't use the skirt from bumper.
if you need a new bumper model, i can do it

The T1v3 is only slightly smaller than the original T1. It seems to work fine. No need for a change.

 

[GeorgeH]

I have attached my working copy of the table that you can try. I am currently using an external XML file so I can save changes easily when I am working on the table. There is also a ZIP file that you don't unzip but save it with the table and XML files. Then there is a library file that you need to save to libraries. You probably already have the scripts saved to scripts folder if you downloaded the last version but I included it if you need it.

Be aware that the ball may follow an odd trajectory when you hit the center of the slingshots. There is some overlap where the diverters meet that produces an irregular edge in the center. JLou will be shortening the diverters that are used to correct this but it is not done yet. I thought the table plays well enough that I would go ahead and post it.

Besides the addition of FizX, the only other changes I recall are the addition of a custom ball and a new backwall that you see during the attract mode. You can switch between a silver ball and the custom ball by pressing the Special1 key before you press the start game key but after the table loads.

I am interested in knowing any problems you may experience while playing it.

JLou sent me the library file named fpFizX.fpl. I decided to rename it as Avatar_FizX.fpl. I expect that JLou will be making changes to FizX. I don't want problems like Smoke experienced when he named different library files on two tables with the same name. Remember the problem with the library file on World Cup Soccer and the X-Men?

 

[Runner]

JLou sent me the library file named fpFizX.fpl. I decided to rename it as Avatar_FizX.fpl. I expect that JLou will be making changes to FizX. I don't want problems like Smoke experienced when he named different library files on two tables with the same name. Remember the problem with the library file on World Cup Soccer and the X-Men?

I've always kept the library files directly in the tables folder and same for anything else except DOF. Never had a problem doing it this way and I find it's easier to manage all of the associated files with each tables when there are updates. And also, other table libraries can't interfere with other tables which have been changed.

 

[JLou5641]

if you use external script, put them in the library file, and call them from the library files to avoid problem,
The library file is good thing

 

[AnonTet]

It's what I did. all same folder but i was about to leave so didn't play much. In any case it just felt wrong like FizX wasn't even in place, ike there's no XML even!
I'll have a look later... or tomorrow.

/edit
What JLou said might be the cause. But i'm on a birthday now so...

 

[GeorgeH]

I've always kept the library files directly in the tables folder and same for anything else except DOF. Never had a problem doing it this way and I find it's easier to manage all of the associated files with each tables when there are updates. And also, other table libraries can't interfere with other tables which have been changed.

When I got into FP many years ago, I didn't know it could be done that way so I now have a huge library folder and have no idea what library files go with which tables. I remember TerryRed said once he cannot do it that way because of the front end programs he uses. Anyway, a table developer has consider all the possibilities in order to avoid problems.

 

[GeorgeH]

if you use external script, put them in the library file, and call them from the library files to avoid problem,
The library file is good thing

I will probably just add the rolling ball sound vbs to the script but the DOFLinx file must be saved to the scripts folder. The DOFLinx people sometimes issue updates to the vbs file so the end user must be able to replace it. The DOFLinx people are careful about making sure the new vbs file is compatible with the old tables. They have been doing this for a long time and I have not noticed any problems with it.

 

[AnonTet]

Disclaimer: it can be a problem on my side (it happened to many times before) so if what I'm writing doesn't make sense to you because it doesn't play like this to you, ignore this.

Short version: Too much like FP default physics

I had a quick look for obvious things:
- slope too high - try 6
- FizX is not made for old style ball properties - In my experience, changing this would be the very last thing to do... or never.
- flippers start angle too low, this makes the shots way wider than needed
- bumpers have no strength to kick the ball.
- there's no threshold configured for the flippers
- and there's a kicker Kcaptive something that has no model associated (not sure if it's needed)

I wasn't sure if this is all due to xml being a file so I imported it and still the same happened.

 

[Runner]

I also thought it played like the old physics plus with some odd ball behaviors (ball sticking to surfaces like the slingshots. I checked the xml file and notice that the FPS is set to 296, could that be why? Should it be set to 592?

 

[AnonTet]

Not all CPU's can handle higher FPS but indeed to take the most out of FizX, higher FPS are a must.
TerryRed actually has profiles in Sonic table for that

 

[TerryRed]

The FizX settings may need to be adjusted when changing the fps. If not, you may see things like the ball sticking to flippers, ball rolling different, ball speed may be a bit different, etc.

That was the main reason I added FizX Profiles to Sonic (to prevent that). Having profiles with different settings as a possibility was just a bonus on top of that.

 

[GeorgeH]

- there's no threshold configured for the flippers

Threshold? Is that something to do with FizX?

 

[AnonTet]

oops. mistake there.

In my previous post where it reads " - there's no threshold configured for the flippers" it should read "slingshots"

I think it is safe to assume it is related to FizX since the slingshots mod comes with the package.

 

[GeorgeH]

Ok I changed the physics. Try the attached version. Remember you can press the Special1 key before you press the start game key to change to the custom ball. The new backwall completes the theme for Pandora's night forest that I thought had the coolest imagery in the movie.

 

[AnonTet]

Now that's more like it @GeorgeH

Just 2 observations until next update. As soon as I got the ball next to flippers the ball stopped... and again and again. I though this was because swingangle option wasn't matching the GUI but it is. Looked at live catch and it is set to 1. This means I can play a table and almost not looking because the ball will always stop on the flippers. I know, it is there but my suggestion is at least 3. Personally, I use 4 or 5 depending on the table otherwise it just too easy as you get better at it.

Please include line "Use_Scatter = 1" above "ScatterRubber = 5" ( I need to talk to JLou about this one)


/edit

hint: set all strength sliders in the GUI to the middle settings when tuning options or XML. The bumpers for example are set way to the right and if you end up wiht high XML values you can "break" FP physics meaning you end up with no strength or weird results.

Regarding bumpers, start with that and put XML bumper impulse to "default" 80 and go from there. But I thing the moving ring is hurting he way they work. Didn't test that

/edit2

Bumpers are set to passive. That's the problem. You also have to disable "trigger skirt" to use the skirt model from JLou (you'll still have the animation). You still have to put the sliders in the middle and bumper impulse to 80 (then adjust sliders or lower impulse even more if you think it is still too much)

 

[GeorgeH]

I just used the XML from Sonic. I have no idea how to adjust any of it. The way I used to do it doesn't work.

 

[AnonTet]

For the XML just open the XML file, go to "bumper impulse" and change it to 80. Don't change anything else in there. Save it.
You still need to implement what I wrote about them in the GUI though for them to work properly.

I would recommend put it in the table script though. Just copy code below and paste it there. If you still want it in external file just uncomment it

also, change FlipperStaticFriction to at least 0.60. I got an stuck ball (nearly) while playing. It's a very small change but enough to prevent this problem. This table is fun :)

' ========== Physics XML Start========== '

'<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
'<document>
'  <physics slope="5.5" fps="592" threaded="1"></physics>
'  <ball newtonDamping="0" mass="8000" gravity="9800" damping="0.1"></ball>
'  <flipper rotationSpeedChart="{0.0,0.0},{3.9,0.8},{9.5,3.0},{15.1,6.6},{19.8,12.0},{24.6,21.5},{26.3,27.8},{28.0,37.0},{29.1,49.0},{29.5,59.0},{30.0,100.0}[0.0,0.0],[60.0,100.0],[100.0,100.0]" newtonDamping="1" releaseOmega="18" mass="500000" omega="45" moeMethod="0" leftXoff="0" leftYoff="0" leftZoff="0" rightXoff="0" rightYoff="0" rightZoff="0"></flipper>
'  <bumper impulse="80.0" impulseRandomness="0" vectorRandomness="2"></bumper>
'  <autoplunger mass="200000.0" force="60000.0"></autoplunger>
'  <diverter mass="1000000.0" omega="35"></diverter>
'  <gate mass="0.5" gravity="3000.0" damping="1.0"></gate>
'  <kicker impulse="2000.0" vukImpulse="2400.0" impulseRandomness="0" vectorRandomness="0"></kicker>
'  <plunger mass="200000.0" force="30000.0"></plunger>
'  <slingshot impulse="0" impulseRandomness="0" vectorRandomness="0"></slingshot>
'  <spindisk mass="10000.0" angularDamp="0.33" linearDamp="0.25"></spindisk>
'  <spinner mass="45.0" gravity="9800.0" angularDamp="0.55" angularAccel="10.0" spinDampLoose="0.30" spinBackLoose="0.65" spinDampNorm="0.50" spinBackNorm="0.50" spinDampTight="0.70" spinBackTight="0.65"></spinner>
'  <emkicker mass="1000000.0" omega="80.0"></emkicker>
'  <varitarget mass="500.0" damping="0.9" tension="3.0" return="15.0"></varitarget>
'  <magnet impulse="50.0" impulseRandomness="2"></magnet>
'  <nudge impulse="220.0" impulseRandomness="25.0" warningLevel="250" leftAngle="60" upAngle="0" rightAngle="320" vectorRandomness="5" visualDistance="1" waitPeriod="300" maxBallVelocity="500.0"></nudge>
'  <defaultMat softnessCoef="1" elasticCoef="1" staticFriction="0.2" kineticFriction="0.2"></defaultMat>
'  <playfieldMat softnessCoef="1" elasticCoef="0.1" staticFriction="0.02" kineticFriction="0.02"></playfieldMat>
'  <metalMat softnessCoef="1" elasticCoef="0.3" staticFriction="0.2" kineticFriction="0.1"></metalMat>
'  <woodMat softnessCoef="1" elasticCoef="0.3" staticFriction="0.2" kineticFriction="0.05"></woodMat>
'  <plasticMat softnessCoef="1" elasticCoef="0.2" staticFriction="0.2" kineticFriction="0.02"></plasticMat>
'  <rubberHardMat softnessCoef="1" elasticCoef="0" staticFriction="1" kineticFriction="1"></rubberHardMat>
'  <rubberIntMat softnessCoef="1" elasticCoef="0.55" staticFriction="0.73" kineticFriction="0.4"></rubberIntMat>
'  <rubberSoftMat softnessCoef="1" elasticCoef="0.65" staticFriction="0.7" kineticFriction="0.4"></rubberSoftMat>
'  <gateMat softnessCoef="1" elasticCoef="0.65" staticFriction="0.05" kineticFriction="0.02"></gateMat>
'  <kickerMat softnessCoef="1" elasticCoef="0.05" staticFriction="0.08" kineticFriction="0.08"></kickerMat>
'  <rampMat softnessCoef="1" elasticCoef="0.02" staticFriction="0.02" kineticFriction="0.02"></rampMat>
'  <plungerMat softnessCoef="1" elasticCoef="0.55" staticFriction="0.02" kineticFriction="0.02"></plungerMat>
'  <spindiskMat softnessCoef="1" elasticCoef="0.5" staticFriction="1.5" kineticFriction="2"></spindiskMat>
'</document>

' ========== Physics XML END ========== '

 

[AnonTet]

@GeorgeH

So I talked about the use_scatter = 1 option. You can ignore that and remove it from the script.

 

[GeorgeH]

How do you adjust BallKineticSensivity? I changed to to 0.4 because that was used on Sonic. I have noticed it is set too high when the ball jumps up and down when it rolls down the flipper. I don't notice any difference when it is set lower than that.

 

[AnonTet]

I've You might not even need it and let it at 0 (i doubt it but...). It is that just under certain situations, you might get the ball stopped on the flipper.
Mind you you MIGHT have the issue and not noticed it during gameplay or you might get it once in a blue moon but if the issue is there, it will show itself at some point.

Best and quickest way to see if the problem is happening is using manual ball roller. put the flipper up and place the ball at the tip. if it doesn start moving, there you have it.
Then you can also cradle the ball at the base and tap the flipper button to flick the ball to the inlane guide and let it come back to the flipper while it is up. If it it goes a bit up and it stops and doesn't want to roll back to cradle then you still have the problem.

There's more stuff in the fizx on-the-fly-tweaker thread that i've posted yesterday