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Bumper Pool and Billiards (Original)

Flipperless Original Table BAM Bumper Pool and Billiards (Original) v2.0 BAM

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Paolo

No Bam no Play
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ok......I think I understand, your reasoning, but I have a question ..... it is also true that we are talking about velocity for now ..... but the direction at 45 degrees, does not ball.SetPosition create it?
why? do it with ball.SetVelocity

in my opinion we need to make a single code, which bears the three properties ..... I could do without the omega, because it is still not clear to me what it does ..... for example, if I want to direct the ball from point A, at point B, with a Velocity to be defined obviously based on what, is being done.....

another question those 1000, can it be a second? I mean .... I have BAM.BallSpeedLimit = 1000, and I know the ball will not travel or fly or run no more than a second......so those 1000s, in velocity, can they be compared to seconds? or is it like in toys?

you didn't answer me, however, to questions 1 and 3, maybe gimli could do it
 
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Gimli

Pinball Master
ok......I think I understand, your reasoning, but I have a question ..... it is also true that we are talking about velocity for now ..... but the direction at 45 degrees, does not ball.SetPosition create it?
why? do it with ball.SetVelocity
No Position is stationary and has nothing to do movement of the ball. It tells you only where ball is located

Velocity tells you the speed of the ball in a specific trajectory or direction.
The trajectory or direction of the ball is a composite of its X , Y and Z velocities

in my opinion we need to make a single code, which bears the three properties ..... I could do without the omega, because it is still not clear to me what it does ..... for example, if I want to direct the ball from point A, at point B, with a Velocity to be defined obviously based on what, is being done.....
They are 3 completely separate concepts

Think of an automobile

Position tells us were you car is currently "at the intersection Paolo Street and Gimli Avenue"

Velocity tells us where and how fast we are heading. 50 kilometers per hour in a North East Direction

Spin (omega) tells us how fast and in what direction the wheels of the car are rotating


another question those 1000, can it be a second? I mean .... I have BAM.BallSpeedLimit = 1000, and I know the ball will not travel or fly or run no more than a second......so those 1000s, in velocity, can they be compared to seconds? or is it like in toys?
Speed doesn't care about direction. in above example the Speed is 50 kilometers per hour but it doesn't give us direction.
you didn't answer me, however, to questions 1 and 3, maybe gimli could do it
I will answer those in a minute
 
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Popotte

Flipper is good for you!
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ok......I think I understand, your reasoning, but I have a question ..... it is also true that we are talking about velocity for now ..... but the direction at 45 degrees, does not ball.SetPosition create it?
why? do it with ball.SetVelocity
.SetPosition just give the position of the ball, just that. You are here (at a moment as you don't move).
.SetVelocity just give the speed of the ball and his direction, just that. You go in a direction with a speed (you move).
.SetOmega just give how the ball rotate, just that.
So, if you want to go from A to B: first, you are on A (.SetPosition). B make an angle with A. So with .SetVelocity, you "build" this angle and you determine your speed (you move).
Concerning why and how .SetVelocity give you the direction, an other nice pic further in the evening (french time).
 

Gimli

Pinball Master
1)how do you calculate the position that one prefers?and especially for the various heights of the ball
I simply move the mouse over the table editor and read the x and y numbers at the bottom of the screen
3) the omega what is meant by spin?I thought that the omega was a kind of strength, like for the fins ..... instead here, what does it do? in the demo I can't see what happens .....
Omega in physics according to google represents "angular frequency " (whatever that means lol) so I guess in can be used
for the Angular Swing of the Flippers which creates the flipper leverage or power
but I guess it also applies to spinning circles like balls that create frictional power with spinning.
 

Paolo

No Bam no Play
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ok, thank you very much for your explanations, JP and Bob ..... I think I understand .....
so to move the ball from point A to B, it's ball.SetVelocity ... like the "moveto" for toys or in miniplayfield

so the omega is the ball that turns, probably not noticed because with the standard ball (texture), it escaped me, but if I put a custom ball I will see it turn.

ok ... I think this new feature opens doors to new frontiers ...... and a little while ago, I have think one:shockedalien:
 

Gimli

Pinball Master
ok, thank you very much for your explanations, JP and Bob ..... I think I understand .....
so to move the ball from point A to B, it's ball.SetVelocity ... like the "moveto" for toys or in miniplayfield
No to Move the ball to a new location is just change position. Like Teleporting in Star Trek

velocity is when I throw a football 100 kilometers per hour toward point B. Velocity doesn't care about getting to the destination
so the omega is the ball that turns, probably not noticed because with the standard ball (texture), it escaped me, but if I put a custom ball I will see it turn.

ok ... I think this new feature opens doors to new frontiers ...... and a little while ago, I have think one:shockedalien:
It sure does ! JP and Rav talked about this back in 2016 at GoPinball
 

Paolo

No Bam no Play
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No to Move the ball to a new location is just change position. Like Teleporting in Star Trek
Nooooooooooo :shockedalien: :shockedalien: :shockedalien: :shockedalien:then I didn't understand, nothing at all.

ok, I rephrase my question, what should be used to move the ball from point A to point B, with a speed, equal to a kicker kicking the ball at maximum strength.......which I put in the editor?

Immagine4.jpg
 

GeorgeH

Flippered Out
Staff member
Site Supporters
How do you use Z? The ball doesn't move vertically unless you count a vertical up kicker or ramp.
 

Gimli

Pinball Master
Nooooooooooo :shockedalien: :shockedalien: :shockedalien: :shockedalien:then I didn't understand, nothing at all.

ok, I rephrase my question, what should be used to move the ball from point A to point B, with a speed, equal to a kicker kicking the ball at maximum strength.......which I put in the editor?

View attachment 17183
If you wish to "teleport" or instantaneously go from A to B you use SetPosition

If you wish to shoot the ball and watch it roll from A in the direction of B use SetVelocity
The ball will only arrive at B if the velocity is fast enough

So I would not even use a kicker at all ....just a trigger.

Sub TriggerPaolo_hit
Dim ball
ball = x.BAM.ball (bla bla)
ball.SetVelocity bla, bla,bla
End Sub
 

Popotte

Flipper is good for you!
Site Supporters
Well... For us... If you want to go from A to B, you have to determine the angle and after the right speed.
Not easy for "normal" guys. You have to have some trigonomical knowledge.
Now, my question: .SetVelocity x,y,z OK. But what is x (or y or z)? Km/h? Or whatelse.
Why? Because drop targets, targets, ... are just hitted even if you hit at a very poor speed (if Rac can confirm that _Hit is just hit -> doesn't depend of the speed). So I want to write a sub (or function) in order to calculate the speed of hit (so I have to manage with the angle of the hitted item) in order to say if the target (or whatever you want) was hitted or not.
 

Gimli

Pinball Master
@wild
here is a demo table showing what I mean....

This is all the code that it takes:
Code:
Const DegToRad = 0.01745329251994329576923690768489

Sub Trigger1_hit()
Dim ball
Set ball = xBAM.BallCloseTo(0,0)
Dim v
Dim a
a = 330 * DegToRad
v = 2000
ball.SetVelocity v*sin(a),- v*cos(a), 0
End Sub

I am using a composite velocity of 2000 and that is too strong so you can change this number

I chose 330 degree angle ( if you play in debug mode, you will see how I got this)
If you move ball with manual roller it will show you what number to use....

you need Bam.dll 328 enclosed in zip.
 

Attachments

  • Wild.zip
    2 MB · Views: 39

Gimli

Pinball Master
Well... For us... If you want to go from A to B, you have to determine the angle and after the right speed.
Not easy for "normal" guys. You have to have some trigonomical knowledge.
Now, my question: .SetVelocity x,y,z OK. But what is x (or y or z)? Km/h? Or whatelse.
Why? Because drop targets, targets, ... are just hitted even if you hit at a very poor speed (if Rac can confirm that _Hit is just hit -> doesn't depend of the speed). So I want to write a sub (or function) in order to calculate the speed of hit (so I have to manage with the angle of the hitted item) in order to say if the target (or whatever you want) was hitted or not.
This is the magic code that I use all the time ...that Rav provided a couple years ago
Notice all the things you can monitor in debug
Ball Speed
X velocity
y velocity
x positon
y positon
trajectory ( "composite velocity")


Code:
Sub NewtonPhysicsTick()
    BallTrajectory  = Atn2( xBAM.Ball.Velocity.X, xBAM.Ball.Velocity.y )
   Dim ball
   Set ball = xBAM.BallCloseTo(0,0)
 
       ' AddDebugText "ball.Speed: " & ball.Speed
        'AddDebugText "xBAM.Ball.Velocity.y: " & xBAM.Ball.Velocity.y
       ' AddDebugText "xBAM.Ball.Velocity.X: " & xBAM.Ball.Velocity.X
      
       '  AddDebugText "xBAM.Ball.Position.X: " & xBAM.Ball.Position.X
       'AddDebugText "xBAM.Ball.Position.Y: " & xBAM.Ball.Position.Y
      
       AddDebugText "BallTrajectory: " & BallTrajectory
End Sub

' Convert X, Y velocities to ball trajectory angle
Const RadToDeg = 57.295779513082320876798154814105



Function Atn2(x, y)
   If x > 0 Then
      Atn2 = Atn(y / x) * RadToDeg
   ElseIf x < 0 Then
      Atn2 = 180 - RadToDeg * Atn(y / -x)
   ElseIf y > 0 Then
      Atn2 = 90
   Else
      Atn2 = -90
   End If
   Atn2 = Atn2+90
End Function
 

Popotte

Flipper is good for you!
Site Supporters
Thanks, but I have just 4 years mathematical studies after bachelor, so I understand (and remade by myself) totaly that.
But I don't think a "normal" guy understand that (but it's an other story).
My question was simply (are always is): what is the unit of measure for velocity?
 

Gimli

Pinball Master
Thanks, but I have just 4 years mathematical studies after bachelor, so I understand (and remade by myself) totaly that.
But I don't think a "normal" guy understand that (but it's an other story).
My question was simply (are always is): what is the unit of measure for velocity?
Good question
I think the "standard unit" is m/s
But not sure for future pinball /BAM
 

Popotte

Flipper is good for you!
Site Supporters
The problem with BAM (excellent add-on moreover) is it is be more and more complex to use.
Just my opinion.
But great product indeed!
 

Paolo

No Bam no Play
Chat Moderator
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If you wish to "teleport" or instantaneously go from A to B you use SetPosition
perfect, I understood this, it works as a kicker, destroy and create .....and thanks for explaining how to calculate the positions ..... but that's not all at this stage, you also need to know the height ..... because if you destroy a ball at the level of the playfield, and then you have to create the ball in another level .... you need to know the position of "z"
If you wish to shoot the ball and watch it roll from A in the direction of B use SetVelocity
The ball will only arrive at B if the velocity is fast enough

So I would not even use a kicker at all ....just a trigger.

Sub TriggerPaolo_hit
Dim ball
ball = x.BAM.ball (bla bla)
ball.SetVelocity bla, bla,bla
End Sub
perfect and that's what I want to learn
Not easy for "normal" guys. You have to have some trigonomical knowledge.
JP.....What do you mean? Not easy for "normal" guys.
 

Paolo

No Bam no Play
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But I don't think a "normal" guy understand that (but it's an other story).
Jp.....I don't want to misunderstand what you say with "normal" guy......I know you well, even if not in person, but I know that you are one of the best people I know in this hobby ..... I believe that you are referring to guys who do not know math ........ .but I think you should use other words to express this concept, forgive me if I tell you ..... I don't like this term "normal" guy ..... it creates perplexity
 

Gimli

Pinball Master
Jp.....I don't want to misunderstand what you say with "normal" guy......I know you well, even if not in person, but I know that you are one of the best people I know in this hobby ..... I believe that you are referring to guys who do not know math ........ .but I think you should use other words to express this concept, forgive me if I tell you ..... I don't like this term "normal" guy ..... it creates perplexity
I think JP means every one of us that hasn't used trigonometry since grade 10. That was 45 years ago for me ....

I had to google this stuff again in the past week....fortunately I've always loved math

sin, cos and tan and right angle triangles
and radians versus degrees etc....
 

Popotte

Flipper is good for you!
Site Supporters
When I said "normal" guy, I just want to say people that are not fluent with mathematical.
I'm not fluent in english, it's for what I use quote ("normal" not normal).
If someone was hurt (even if not), my apologies for that.
 

Paolo

No Bam no Play
Chat Moderator
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now I find myself in difficulty ... I don't know if: I am normal or mediocre or poor .... but I might be able to understand ....... and use it, in another time ago, there was someone who told me that I did not have the possibility to create a table .... But you also know thanks to your help I was able to create one ..... now I see this term "normal guy" I might think you were talking about me ... you and gimli you are talking to me ... not with other guys ... this saddens me so for now I retire to understand this new function, thanks
 
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Popotte

Flipper is good for you!
Site Supporters
Paolo, we don't speak about you. We speak about a guy who try to understand the code than Gimli post.
Concerning redrawing, I'm an under "normal" guy. In the beginning, I worked with bitmap pic and I was scared if I missed one or two pixels. Now, it's better, but if a man who knows well Photoshop (or something else) see my work, he'll just laugh and he'll be right. I'm not insulted.
The important thing is not to be the King, it's to do what we like.
And you do what you like, so keep going.
Kindly.
JP
 
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Paolo

No Bam no Play
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Paolo, we don't speak about you.
ok....I understand ... JP .... I said I might think ...... I didn't say I thought .... there is a difference
We speak about a guy who try to understand the code than Gimli post.
ok ... but who are these "guys" ....? who is it?......JP, I don't know the math or the code of gimli.... so, what am I? how would you define me?

I repeat JP, this is a wrong term "normal guys"someone might be offended.....it is not clear what you really mean,I was not offended, forget it about those who know or do not know mathematics .... those who want to learn like me, ask their questions .... then those who are willing to answer yes or no, this is another matter ..... but in my opinion we must not say "normal guys" or not, for those unfamiliar with mathematics

The important thing is not to be the King, it's to do what we like.
I don't understand what you mean
And you do what you like, so keep going.
I still don't understand, sorry
 

Paolo

No Bam no Play
Chat Moderator
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Very really impressive work, the progress of this project has been noteworthy,a few years ago, such a project was unthinkable, but with Bam it was possible....well done Bob!!
 
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