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BAM rotationSpeedChart

shiva

Administrator
Staff member
Site Supporters
I disabled my code and tried this. Well done.
George, the aiming was off as well for me, but that is not surprising, as different models/different angles/different settings will cause that.
 

AnonTet

Pinball Hall of Famer
Site Supporters
Tried latest AFM version 3c.

Good news. I can, with difficulty:
  • tap pass
  • flick pass
  • post pass
How realistic is difficulty I felt, I have no idea so I rather trust people who actually play real pinball regularly on this. So... what can I say? Well done?

I do agree with GeorgeH on the physics. I would even suggest that you stop on te speedchart and bounce and look at materials. My reasoning is that flippers are working so, better look at the rest. If they stop working then something went wrong but not with the flippers.

Regarding rubber and materials, not to deviate much i'll send you a PM.
 

JLou5641

Pinball Wizard
You're right @AnonTet . Flipper are working. The difference that every one can see is the value setting that need to be fine tune.

The next step is to integrate EOS, and then working on "general" physics.

For the trick, as I play on a real fish tales, real Popeye ( an real Stargate but it's different, i will make chart for SYS 3 after ), here my feeling:
- Tap pass: seems te be good
- Flick pass: too easy for me compare to real
- Post pass: little too easy compare to real
- Drop Catch: seems to be good

But not complicated to fine tune this as your preference.
 

shiva

Administrator
Staff member
Site Supporters
Very simple solution. The new changes to the variable coil system, well I really like it. When 1.41.is released, you guys will look at it and see how it affects your set up. Try and get it out soon, you will see no problems with EOS, other than my flipper bases are too weak, but easy fix. I tried it with the rotation chart, only thing is the shots lined up slightly different (still my omega code, just no walls etc.) That is the nature of the variable coils, but that was exactly what I wanted anyway, as fpx will down the road have support built in for each flipper type, and by era, as early flippers were very weak, and over the years got stronger and stronger every 10 years or so. I think you will find that rotation charts may have to be done up for the different sizes of flippers, and not all flipper models are the same either, some have different collision models.
Still very big accomplishment. The problems down the road will be because FP just doesn't have the range of physics vpx does, there are some missing physics, and other physics look to be combined as opposed to separate, which makes things very difficult.
 

JLou5641

Pinball Wizard
Hi all,

It's time to an update. We make good advancement with @AnonTet .

- First fact: For aming, we use more and various omega power along the bats to make closer angle for aiming shoot, because like I say, more power we have, more "friction" we have like you if you jumping from higher on your bed... ( you will go deeper on your bed loool ). But we do not take into account the time it takes for Flipper bats to move due to the omega, appart for the first 30ms with the charts. So after that 30ms, today, the only way to make "acceleration" after those 30ms, is to use more Omega along the bats... But it give to much power... and more you give power, more you make the flipper bats fast.. but with no contol.

- Second fact: In real, what is the most important thing to keep " the pushing friction" when the ball is pushing? The acceleration.. Acceleration mean more friction... not the speed
Ex: You are in a powerfull car: You make a big big start.. So the acceleration make you glued to the seat, and until you stopped accelerate, you can't move... Meanwhile, even if you go at 300km/h, you can move again if you stop acceleration... It's called: ""Relative speed"" . So, by analogie, if you can move at 300km/h after stopping acceleration, it's like you have no more friction.
This is what we have for now, after 30ms, flipper bats stop his acceleration, by the way, after this, and due to flipper boucing ( this is why with low bouncing the problem is less ), the ball is "lighter", and so, you loose friction, and by the way, you loose aiming.

Conclusion:

With this reflexion, i take the problem on other side. Today, we take account omega along the flipper bats.. So we can write like this by analogy:

Aiming=Omega x Flipper bats lenght.. ..

But what we need to do is:

Aiming = Omega x Time acceleration

And BAM Rotational Charts do that! It give power along the time in opposition we give power along a distance ( flipper bats ).. So the simple thing I made, I set up the same "low" omega ( 30 for Addam's Family, 45 for BOP ) along the flipper bats ( apart for the base of flipper bats to keep post past ), I keep my 30ms curves for tricks, and then, to keep an acceleration to the end of move ( by the way a good friction ), I insert a last new point on the charts with more power at 150% at 31ms ( if no more power, mean no more acceleration ), that means, omega raise gradualy from 30 to 45 after the 30ms ( with 30 for omega setting ) along the time and top of move, instead of along the flipper bats... And yeah... It work very well! I made Addam's Family update, and also Bride Of Pinbot update.
Addam's Family, personnaly, i go where i want to go, when i want, and now, that it's important too, you need a specific flipper bats, or a specific angle to take each trajectory.. Like upper ramp, is harder with right flipper than the left.. For BOP it's the same.
For helping me, I have a friend who had lot of real pinball, and know them perfectly. he help me a lot for BOP timing and trajectory.
I begun to update other old table to test it.. It's already based on Dynamic Flipper.. For each new flipper you need to setup in first the "standard" omega along the bats to make good accuracy and power for the first half of flipper bats... then, you need to setup the last point of the charts ( at 31ms ), over 100% ( 130 to 180 seems to be best range ) to make good power and accuracy for the second half of flipper bats, and good shoot for upper playfield. Of course, "standard" omega and "last point charts" are linked. Change the first need the second to be redefined.
Also, with @AnonTet we decided to do this with real physics value.. Real ball mass ( 80 ), real Gravity ( 9800 ), real friction ( the most close as possible in function of our research ) etc etc . In our opinion, using real value is far better than before.

The last point, @AnonTet make an easy and little script for livecatch that i test and update to make it work.

EOS script from ravarcad work too, but don't permit to make live catch if it use alone. I don't put them in my update for now. But I think it will work better combinate with the Anontet little script.

Finally, it's already the "Dynamic Flipper script" with a little update, combined with a good rotational charts.. It's not harder to integrate than before, and easy to setup has you want.

Here the link for BOP and Addam's Family updated to v1c. It's already in progress.



Greeting,
JLou
 
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