BAM rotationSpeedChart

[GeorgeH]

Yes,I know ... but I wonder why this value he have.

I don't know.

 

[GeorgeH]

the result is near the same, but less comprehensible to configure.
On my code, you just set omega for each point like here but you don't need a "minOmega". it's useless

The minOmega is needed if you want to be able to change the omega strength without having to change the value in each line. Of course you could set the actual value without performing the addition if desired. If you want to change the curve, just edit the values in the attachment and the code is posted lower down in the file.

 

[Paolo]

is there a way to speed up the swing of a fin? use only one code for a single fin .....

 

[JLou5641]

To do what ? give your exemple
More you raise Omega, more speed he have... but more power too.

 

[Paolo]

Hi JLou...I was waiting for your reply regarding my post earlier .... anyway

To do what ? give your exemple
More you raise Omega, more speed he have... but more power too.

EDIT:
I have a omega at 55, and I'm not totally satisfied in speed of the swing....I would like a swing that as soon as I press the fin it comes out of the desktop, I joke ... if I increase the omega too much, then I have other problems, I would like to only increase the speed of the swing to have an immediate impact one the ball... . right away, at the speed of light .... I don't know if I'm clear.....

 

[JLou5641]

what do you mean by "fin"?

If you want to have more "speed" without change omega, you need to change rotation speed charts... but you will loose trick or make it harder. It's as you wish

 

[GeorgeH]

Paolo calls flippers "fins".

Paolo. Are you using a wireless keyboard? Wireless keyboards have a lag time.

 

[JLou5641]

okey, so, i think it's an input lag issue. I don't remember. what's your pc spec ?

 

[Paolo]

If you want to have more "speed" without change omega, you need to change rotation speed charts... but you will loose trick or make it harder. It's as you wish

@JLou5641
I supposed it, but I only care about one fin to change speed, not all of them ... now if I change "rotationSpeedChart", the change would affect all fins(flippers), changing the gameplay of the table.

question: you all always talk about trick, but what you talk about?the only thing I can think of is little game of passing the ball from one fin to another.....I don't remember what it's called.

Paolo calls flippers "fins".

@GeorgeH
the word "flippers" in English..... in Italian are (pinne) fins in plural.....fin (pinna) in singular.....because they move like the fins of fish


in Italy, the term flipper, we mean the whole cabinet that is all the pinball ..... we do not use the term flipper for the two fins
if I do the translation of flippers...in Italian = pinne......pinne in English = fins.


or another context as you call these?which, moreover, do the swing

in Italian are call "alette".....but if you do the english translation, it gives me "fins"

Paolo. Are you using a wireless keyboard? Wireless keyboards have a lag time.

never used!!!
I know everything that is not wired (better optical now) is overdue.
But this is not the point.
You accidentally saw in the video I sent you, a fin...ops....flipper (Flipper1) delay or a lag time.?

okey, so, i think it's an input lag issue. I don't remember. what's your pc spec ?

nope!!! that's not the point either.

I have no, lag time issue problems, my pc is ok,for this table.....I only have problems with "slam" tables for various reasons, and for tables that use a lot of "rendering" .
I just wanted to increase the speed of a flipper, if possible, to have an immediate impact .... I try to explain myself better
but I ask you a question, maybe you understand better

how long does it take for a fin(flipper) to open? say with a swing of 53, from the moment you press the button? how many tenths of seconds does it take? .... here... I would like to delete that very small time .... if of time is the correct term ... in this case

in formula one, if the mechanics take less time (we are talking about tenths of seconds, right!) the driver enters the race faster ... no? so if I increase the speed of the fin, I hit the ball more impact, having better aim ... so what's my plan? if I direct the ball up a ramp at the speed of light (and just to say) not with force, I don't need force but speed ..... the ball flies in that ramp .... even if it is a difficult ramp

I hope I was clear...and Thanks for the attention!!!

 

[JLou5641]

if you have problem with Slamt1lt table due to light, you have performance issue for sure.

In Real, it take about 30ms after pushing to have the flipper bats up to his maximum

 

[Paolo]

In Real, it take about 30ms after pushing to have the flipper bats up to his maximum

ok.....it is possible to halve this time?

 

[JLou5641]

just change rotational speed charts in bam menu as you wish.

 

[Paolo]

just change rotational speed charts in bam menu as you wish.

you mean in the xml maybe?........in bam menu is when you press the Q button...
ok where the line of the "rotationSpeedChart",in this image?
there isn't, I would have noticed, if it would be so easy, so much so that someone else would have already told me or used it

 

[GeorgeH]

you mean in the xml maybe?........in bam menu is when you press the Q button...
ok where the line of the "rotationSpeedChart",in this image?
there isn't, I would have noticed, if it would be so easy, so much so that someone else would have already told me or used it

Arrow down to either "Rotation Speed Chart" or "Release Rotation Speed Chart". Then press the insert key on your keyboard ("Ins" located above the arrow keys) to add points. That will add points on a chart that appears on the right side of the screen. You can adjust the milliseconds for each point. When finished, you need to go back to the previous screen and save as XML.

You can delete points by arrowing right or left on either "Rotation Speed Chart" or "Release Rotation Speed Chart" and pressing the delete key (Del).

It might be easier to load one of JLou5641's XMLs and edit it.

 

[Paolo]

Arrow down to either "Rotation Speed Chart" or "Release Rotation Speed Chart".

is interesting that you hardly notice the writing, it is darkened .....

Then press the insert key on your keyboard ("Ins" located above the arrow keys)

ok, but still it is interesting that "we" have to press "Ins" to change ..... I have not yet obtained the wizard's license to be able to know this"Ins" key , because there is no directly on the menu that "we" have to press this key? I wonder .... anyway

to add points. That will add points on a chart that appears on the right side of the screen. You can adjust the milliseconds for each point. When finished, you need to go back to the previous screen and save as XML.

still still interesting, what stuff is that? the game of connecting the dots to form a figure?
I do have to do all this (which I gladly give up), to increase the speed of the swing?
which you then have to save in xml, which will look like this:
rotationSpeedChart="{0.0,1.0},{3.9,3.8},{9.5,9.0},{15.1,15.6},{19.8,22.0},{24.6,31.5},{26.3,39.3},{28.0,50.0},{29.1,62.0},{29.5,75.0},{30.0,100.0},{30.1,160.0}[0.0,0.0],[20.5,1.0],[55.3,14.5],[90.0,50.0],[100.0,100.0]"
for me, is,like this:
rotationSpeedChart="irlglkjdlòifòlckbjxàòojbnàcòjnbxàòogjnòàcjn x àògnjàcòojn vcòlkjc àòvckòàcnbfxòonjàcòxonj%%%&&&&////((((((£££££""""""!!!!!!!!!?????????????????????????]"
with the consequence that it affects all flippers,which for me in a negative way, (that no one is offended)

I am interested in having or configuring the speed only on one fin(flipper).....I asked the Rav, can you create an xbam code like this
xBAM.SetSwingSpeedFlipperWild, x, x, x

Thanks a lot, for the explanation @GeorgeH really very useful, for those who know what to do ..... unfortunately not me, my idea of increasing the speed of the swing is another story ...like the xbam code above

 

[GeorgeH]

for me, is,like this:
rotationSpeedChart="irlglkjdlòifòlckbjxàòojbnàcòjnbxàòogjnòàcjn x àògnjàcòojn vcòlkjc àòvckòàcnbfxòonjàcòxonj%%%&&&&////((((((£££££""""""!!!!!!!!!?????????????????????????]"

It never made sense to me either. That is probably why no one ever used it until JLou started working with it.

I tried an experiment. I used JLou's latest chart and divided the time of each point on his chart by 2. I don't know much about it but it seems that it should do what you requested by making the flippers twice as fast as JLou's. I don't know if it will do what you want but you might want to try it:

rotationSpeedChart="{0.0,1.0},{1.95,3.8},{4.75,9.0},{7.75,15.6},{9.8,22.0},{12.3,31.5},{13.15,39.3},{14.0,50.0},{14.55,62.0},{14.75,75.0},{15.0,100.0},{15.05,160.0}[0.0,0.0],[10.25,1.0],[27.65,14.5],[45.0,50.0],[50.0,100.0]"

 

[Paolo]

JLou started working with it.

and I bow to his work.

I tried an experiment. I used JLou's latest chart and divided the time of each point on his chart by 2. I don't know much about it but it seems that it should do what you requested by making the flippers twice as fast as JLou's.

ok,but changing "rotation Speed Chart =" in XML, affects all fins, right? now this modification works with his DF, or with the standard one?

I remind you of my changes in DW ..... and what I told you, about this

I don't know if it will do what you want but you might want to try it:

I'm trying to improve DW's fin shot, (Flipper1) ... if you still don't get it

 

[GeorgeH]

I have found JLou's chart seems to work with any dynamic flippers that you choose to use. I tried it briefly and I can't tell any difference in the speed of the flippers visually but it does play differently. It might be a little too fast. Try and see if you like it.

 

[Paolo]

I have found JLou's chart seems to work with any dynamic flippers that you choose to use. I tried it briefly and I can't tell any difference in the speed of the flippers visually but it does play differently. It might be a little too fast. Try and see if you like it.

this

rotationSpeedChart="{0.0,1.0},{1.95,3.8},{4.75,9.0},{7.75,15.6},{9.8,22.0},{12.3,31.5},{13.15,39.3},{14.0,50.0},{14.55,62.0},{14.75,75.0},{15.0,100.0},{15.05,160.0}[0.0,0.0],[10.25,1.0],[27.65,14.5],[45.0,50.0],[50.0,100.0]"

 

[GeorgeH]

Yes. Just save the whole thing to the XML replacing whatever is there. It will even though you don't understand it.

I think everyone will like being able to adjust the times on JLou's rotation speed chart. It seems like it needs to be changed on different tables. If anyone is interested, you can download the attached Excel file. I saved directions on how to use it in the file. There is only one value to change and the whole rotation speed chart will change so it is simple to use.

 

[JLou5641]

@Paolo , as i can, I will make a tuto to how to use correctly Rotation Speed Charts... It's the best tool Rav made to have good physics for Flipper bats..

But what you need to know before:
- you need to set flipper force slider in editor at "the middle", otherwise, omega you set in script will not be that in game
- Omega you set in script for DF ( force and speed of flipper bats ), is not the same as define in BAM physics XML. Omega in bam physics XML is omega ( Force and speed ) when there no ball in contact and Omega in script for DF, it's when the ball is in contact. So, to see how much time flipper goes up with your setup, you need to set the same value, and in BAM menu Flipper physics setting, you can see the time need by your flipper to full pull up when you press your button.

 

[Paolo]

physics for Flipper bats..

@JLou5641

Please first.....flipper I know,but bats....what is?
if I didn't know we are talking about pinball machines .... I could think of these


bats in plural.

But what you need to know before:
- you need to set flipper force slider in editor at "the middle", otherwise, omega you set in script will not be that in game

I know this very well, it is part of my theory of the equilibrium(balance) of physics which he has been talking about for some time. Here

- Omega you set in script for DF ( force and speed of flipper bats ), is not the same as define in BAM physics XML. Omega in bam physics XML is omega ( Force and speed ) when there no ball in contact and Omega in script for DF, it's when the ball is in contact. So, to see how much time flipper goes up with your setup, you need to set the same value, and in BAM menu Flipper physics setting, you can see the time need by your flipper to full pull up when you press your button.

Have patience, I did not understand very well, because it is obvious that you are talking about something that you already know well, but not me, if you are talking about "rotationSpeedChart".for me it is a new thing, I think that no one before you, had talked about it, yet this had to be a passage that sooner or later I had to talk about here "XML" Arguments and Explanations

now if you are talking about omega instead I can understand .... I have always thought that: at least since I started my path in physics, (my Stardust table is an example) omega is a very important factor, and to work well it is necessary to have a balance in the objects that compose it, and in the parameters in XML that they are related to.

regardless of what values we put on the DF (I use the standard one,not the yours for the moment, I have too many questions for your DF) we need to find a balance.....here's what i think......according to my intelligence.

1) three or four points between min and max
const MinOmega = 34 ' Omega at tip of flipper. Must be < MaxOmega.
const MaxOmegaL = 37 ' Omega at base of left flipper. Must be > MinOmega.
const MaxOmegaR = 37 ' Omega at base of right flipper. Must be > MinOmega.

2) in fp editor, balanced strength and elasticity for the two flippers
3) in XML to put <flipper rotationSpeedChart="{0.0,100.0}[0.0,100.0]" newtonDamping="1" releaseOmega="37" mass="99999.0" omega="34" moeMethod="0"

as you see,the releaseOmega/omega are equal to MinOmega/MaxOmega....the "rotationSpeedChart" part, I left as originally, because I didn't know what is yet ..... just because I hadn't talked about it yet in "XML" Arguments and Explanations
the mass you see is a value(in green) created by smoke, correct for me.

this setup worked great for stardust now for two other tables of mine too .... including the DW's @GeorgeH but here only for the top left flipper (Flipper 1)

now if you want to talk about "rotation Speed Chart" so be it my friend....your tutorial will be very useful

regards

 

[JLou5641]

Rotation charts is simply to simulate coil acceleration from 0 to full power, and do the same for release acceleration... A coil is not ON/OFF... So, with rotation charts, you make an acceleration and power raise along the time to full power, like in real, meanwhile standard DF make a ON/OFF coil with more or less coil power ( Omega ) along the flipper bat which is a non-sens... Omega is the power of the coil!! not the bats. So, with the same Omega along the flipper bats, you not have the same force to the ball due to the lever ( P=CxOmega in physics... where P=Force, C=Length of flipper bats and Omega.. is the real Omega as torq ).
So in real, the coil need some millisecond to raise up to his full Omega. That rotationnal charts do. It make a percentage of "initial" omega to set. Also for no, omega for tip and base is different to help for trick... But you can set the same for base as along, post pass will be morr difficult but already makeable.. for the tip, due the lack of eos, it's necessairy to make tip pass or loose of power at the tip due to eos ( in real ).

To finish, what important thing made good accurate shot, is the acceleration of flipper bats... with on/off flipper bats, there is no acceleration.. it's like a kick, not a catapult, and flipper bats work like a catapult

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

I haven't been paying attention to this thread before now, but it seems chock full of amazing stuff (most of it right over my head). Anyway, I've pinned it for the time being because there's obviously tonnes of useful info here.

This also brings me to a question, which would be-- what exactly are the differences between these things below?

• The Rotation Chart approach
• ShivaFlippers
• DynamicFlippers
• XML physics documents
• anything else relevant?

My understanding is that BAM powers all these physics and flipper-physics tweaks, but I've no idea how many of these can be mixed n' matched, and no idea if that would even make sense.

If I manage to gain a basic understanding of this stuff, I wouldn't mind adding the info to Wiki's FP entry as another useful update. Thanks for any help, mateys.

 

[Paolo]

To finish, what important thing made good accurate shot, is the acceleration of flipper ......it's like a kick

in fact my intelligence, not mathematics, suggests me .... that if I give a kick, to 2 balls with the same strength, but with different speeds, what do I get? For me a better aim, and I do goals !!!!!!!

always my intelligence suggests that if I have a code so xbam.setswingspeedflipper1, x, x, x ..... I get that result,goals !!!!!!!
I Farnetic? maybe not.