Tutorial Physics/XML "XML" Arguments and Explanations

GeorgeH said:
<ball newtonDamping="0.001" mass="81.5" gravity="7200" damping="1.2"></ball>
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Wow..... high mass and gravity, may I ask you why?

I imagine you will have some "supermegaultra" omega in DF?

one question the kickers or the plunger, they work in your TLZ?

I tried it this value below on DK, and it seems to work better, in fact I also increased mass and gravity ....

' <kicker impulse="1200.0" vukImpulse="1500.0" impulseRandomness="4" vectorRandomness="1"></kicker>
' <plunger mass="10000.0" force="80000.0"></plunger>

<ball newtonDamping="0.001.5" mass="30" gravity="5700" damping="1.5"></ball>
 
wild said:
and what would be the optimal ones?
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There are actually no optimal values. Just use whatever works. I watched the game play on your video. It appears to play well.
 
wild said:
<ball newtonDamping="0.001.5" mass="30" gravity="5700" damping="1.5"></ball>
Click to expand...

Something is not right here.
 
GUI = Graphic User Interface
 
Popotte said:
Some good litterature here
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I didn't know that smoke, had opened a thread on this .... it's from 2013, it seems interesting, but doing the translation for me is torture ..... someone with a mother tongue, and with good will, could take the interesting things what smoke explains, and maybe create an xml, according to his vision, which then put here on this thread could be studied, what do you all think ?

it seems that it also explains the mass of the real ball, also makes some calculations, to create something more correct, or am I wrong?

Gimli said:
He must have thought no one was interested
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in fact it is only three pages long, such a topic should have been more followed at that time .... but perhaps because it is from 2013 .... and bam was not like now,there were not conditions as now, to be followed with more attention .....but second hour would be ideal
 
for example but below I don't know what it's about

Newton engine don't use SI units. Is up to the user to do the some conversion.
The International System of Units (abbreviated SI from French: Le Système international d'unités) is the modern form of the metric system and is the world's most widely used system of measurement, used in both everyday commerce and science.
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@smoke

says here.......?
My goal is to try to do the most accurate physics with using the most real world values.
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unbelievable, even a big one like smoke, he thought as I thought .... so my idea on this was not so crazy
 
in simple terms, could anyone explain this? please

THE BALL
=========
First let's discover if future pinbal use SI units.
So let's try <ball mass="0.80" gravity="9.810" damping="0.80"></ball>
what's going on? it's like playing pinball in the international space station. The ball is floating !!!

Maybe the author of future pinbal doesn't use kg and m units?
let's try to change the mass value to gram and length to millimeter. That's could make sense as future pinball editor use millimeters for placing objects.


let try <ball mass="80.0" gravity="9810.0" damping="0.80"></ball>
Hmmmmmm much better no ?


You may find that the flipper may move when hitted by the ball. To correct that you must rise the flipper mass value.
Why? Because immovables components (that must not move when collided by a ball like plunger, flipper, diverter and emkicker) must have an enormous mass value compared to the ball mass.
So we could try to use this values:

<flipper mass="99999.0" omega="40.0" moeMethod="0"
leftXoff="0" leftYoff="1500" leftZoff="0"
rightXoff="0" rightYoff="1500" rightZoff="0"></flipper>
<autoplunger mass="99999.0" force="60000.0"></autoplunger>
<diverter mass="99999.0" omega="33.0"></diverter>
<plunger mass="99999.0" force="60000.0"></plunger>
<spindisk mass="99999.0" angularDamp="0.33" linearDamp="0.25"></spindisk>
<emkicker mass="99999.0" omega="100.0"></emkicker>
Click to expand...

mmmmmm.....I've seen these high values before, which someone else is using

<ball mass="80.0" gravity="9810.0" damping="0.80"></ball>


EDIT:
wow !!! here he speaks of increasing the other masses.......
 
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wild said:
in simple terms, could anyone explain this? please



mmmmmm.....I've seen these high values before, which someone else is using

<ball mass="80.0" gravity="9810.0" damping="0.80"></ball>
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thank you... but I use 9800 :)
 
i must say i am very surprised, i think i understand that smoke, was trying to create an xml, which could be used for many tables .... using as a basis the physics (or theories) of a real pinball ..... in practice is what I thought .... with the difference that "I" not even know where to start ... instead he, seemed to have clear ideas .....

now a question, could we use this data to continue to be able to create an xml suitable for all tables? it would be nice for you to participate now ...... @smoke

I think that with the new things that Rav is implementing .... this could be the good opportunity to create "us" an improved xml ... maybe say: suitable for all tables is science fiction ..... but I believe it

the biggest problem is ..... the right man for it.
 
these discussions are interesting.......especially the one called by "slam"

FP still has its flaws but we can eliminate them all eventually I'm sure.

Catturaa.JPG
Catturab.JPG
Catturac.JPG
 
wild said:
instead it concerns the gates, I had problems with my "EM",Stardust, which I am trying to do .... in fact I have lowered both mass and gravity of the gate, and it works better, it does not do much resistance to the ball now

' <gate mass="1.0" gravity="1500.0" damping="0.25"></gate>
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I have lowered it much more for use on gates on ramps.

<gate mass="0.010" gravity="50" damping="0.25"></gate>

High values will slow the ball down especially on a ramp.

I normally use these on tables that do not have ramps:

<gate mass=".1" gravity="500.0" damping=".25"></gate>
 
wild said:
Wow..... high mass and gravity, may I ask you why?
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I have been using high mass and gravity for years now. I suspect my friction values are lower than yours.
 
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In your BAM folder, you have a XML directoty, and in this directory, you have:
- original .xml (fp-p1.0),
- .xml from Slamt1lt (from fp-p2.0 to fp-p2.7),
- .xml from Zendonius (V1.0 and V1.1).
You can add .xml from GeorgeH, TerryRed and Smoke.
Just have a look to all, choose your favorite, then just adapt it for your table(s).
 
wild said:
ok, but you didn't tell me why you use it so high...

it's suspicious well, because I don't know what you're talking about ....
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I just like the way it plays. Smoke uses values higher than mine on Ghostbusters.
 
GeorgeH said:
I just like the way it plays. Smoke uses values higher than mine on Ghostbusters.
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ok, if in this way it helps to have "that blessed version of xml" that I dream of, suitable for all tables ..... I just simply agree
 
Popotte said:
Just have a look to all, choose your favorite, then just adapt it for your table(s).
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everyone is free to do it ....but the purpose of this thread is not to adapt the xml of others, in their own tables ... but to create an xml as a base to be adapted for all the tables.

that standard of fb, which then and what I put on the front page .... we have established that it is not optimal, right? then "we" let's create one to be inserted of all origin, which is optimal to start with .... smoke, if I am not misunderstood that was what I was doing, but then it stopped.

you said if you had an "instruction" you could create a base right? or not?
 
If you want to see the difference between a light ball and a heavy ball. My older table mods used a light ball and newer ones use a heavy ball.

You can try the custom physics version of GF's Genesis that uses a light ball:


Space Shuttle uses a heavy ball:

pinballnirvana.com

Williams - SS - Recreation - BAM - FP - Space Shuttle (Williams, 1984)

Note: Click on the "Updates" tab to read the descriptions for versions 1.3 and 1.4 Note that the Special 2 key opens the menu. Space Shuttle (Williams, 1984) v1.2 Table Developers: Sepeteus, Tomasaco, Popotte, GeorgeH IPD No. 2260 "Space...
pinballnirvana.com pinballnirvana.com

If you can't play them on your PC, you can copy the XML form them.
 
hello

Wow !!! that was a very old post (seeing my post about the physics on the old forum)

I personnally use the exact same xml physics file for all my 35 future pinball table.
It is the one included in my last table ghostbusters.

your table slope must use a 5.8->6.2 angle for that to work perfectly.
and have to adjust the solenoid strength....

I'm very happy with my setting. the ball reacts the same ways on all my 35 tables.
So no weird thing to re-learn when you switch from a table to another one.
 
smoke said:
I'm very happy with my setting. the ball reacts the same ways on all my 35 tables.
So no weird thing to re-learn when you switch from a table to another one.
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@smoke

So you have developed an xml, based on the characteristics of a real pinball machine?

so then have you considered all the elements or parameters that make up an xml?...for example all other masses, impulses and omegas
softnessCoef, elasticCoef, staticFriction, kineticFriction...etc etc

if you use it for all your tables, (which are phenomenal) ... then I have to assume that you have not only configured the ball, but other objects too, right?
 
"So you have developed an xml, based on the characteristics of a real pinball machine?"
--only gravity and ball mass are from real world (in grams and millimeters) and used table slope 5.8->6.2 (in real world average is 6.0)
--the rest is only a matter of taste and fix for the physics engine (infinite mass for flippers or else they move !!)

but the goal was to use the exact same physics for all tables that is close to reality.

and yes, I had to edit some table by removing the invisible kickers helping for ramps or to make bumpers more punchy.
And on 1-2 table I edited the ramp model to avoid stuck ball because of the slope (withe a 6.0 degree 1-2 ramps got some flat/counter slope portions).

I you go to the old forum where I posted my research, you have some explanation of my choices
 
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